Invisibility: Memory

[lensman]

I wanted to build Invisibility to memory, with delay about 5 minutes.

So you meet the character, interact, then about 5 minutes later you have no recollection of his presence or interaction.

 

Mind Control, way to expensive and impossible effect to achieve.

Transform, same as above

Psionic surgury, same as above

 

Invisibility is the best way, right?

[Metaphysician]

Given the nature of the effect, Transform probably is the way to go. Yes, it would be extremely expensive.

[Blue Jogger]

Well, best way, the cheapest way and the way the GM allows are often three different things.

 

Depending on the campaign, you could probably get away with Invisibility, but upon intergation the person might remember talking to somebody or something or maybe just himself... just can't remember any details.

 

The GM may allow something like No Interaction Memory as an additional adder simular to No Fringe Effect.

[lensman]

Blue jogger, you are my personal god for today.

 

Great idea that Adder. Thanks

[Just A Guy Name]

Cool idea. Sorta like the ability of the characters from that short-lived BBC series, Shades, no? (at least, that was the name it went by on our local PBS. IMDB shows the UK title as Hereafter) If you can accept the definition of "Memory" as being perception of the past, then I guess you could treat it as a nontargeting sense, probably of the Mental Group. Then you could affect it with sense-affecting powers such as Flash, or Invisibility. From there, I guess you take Always On, and Extra Time at the -2 level. Frankly, the philosophical questions raised by this make my head hurt:p

Just forget about the cost and build it as Mental Illusion, says I.

[AnotherSkip]

Hows about a Flash in kinda reverse?

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by lensman

Blue jogger, you are my personal god for today.

 

Great idea that Adder. Thanks

 

Does this mean tomorrow you'll forget that I was here?

 

I was wondering, lensman, is this an Always On power?

"Who are you?"

"I am Shadowhawk. Remember? I'm the latest member!"

"Thanks for the assistance."

(Five Minutes Later)

"And lastly, who are you?"

"I'm Shadowhawk. I'm the latest member. I just saved your life five minutes ago."

(Another Five Minutes Later)

"Why is this person in the SuperJet?"

"AAAAGGGHH! I'm Shadowhawk! I'm the latest member!"

[Trebuchet]

This ability reminds me of the mutant ability of the main protagonist in Piers Anthony's excellent book "Mute." It worked so well even his secretary/lover had to leave herself notes to remember him, otherwise she'd reintroduce herself every time she saw him,

[lensman]

Just A Guy Name:

Never saw the program you site. But i will think about th eMemory as Mental Sense. Great idea.

 

Another Skip:

So the flash would work to "Flash" the 5 minutes of "in camera" and then the flash ends and poof, no memory.

Great idea, but that many dice of flash ..

hold it can you apply a Megascale to flash , so each body goes up th etime chart? Hmmmm.

 

Blue jogger:

Yep that is how I saw it working, although not always On, but it could work

 

Trebuchet:

Never read "Mute," for a player it would have to be donecarefully, so as not to piss off other players.

In this case, th epower is for a villian

[Derek Hiemforth]

Invisibility is definitely workable, assuming the GM is willing to fudge the exact mechanics a bit in favor of the flavor (and since you're the GM, it should be easy to get the GM to agree. )

 

One interesting aspect of using an Always On Transform (which might not be ideal for this particular character, but might be cool for another character) would be that -- due to Transform's cumulative nature -- the longer someone interacted with this character, the less they would remember them! So if you just passed them on the street or exchanged words at the newsstand or something, you might have a chance of recalling it. But if you actually had a conversation with the person, you'd never remember it.

[Metaphysician]

You could make the Transform "sticky." That way, you could even cut the dice down alot.

[devlin1]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Piers Anthony's excellent book

 

I don't think I've ever seen these four words together before.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by devlin1

I don't think I've ever seen these four words together before.

 

Heh, I had a similar reaction, though I've only read a couple of his things.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by devlin1

I don't think I've ever seen these four words together before.

To me, it's not so much that Piers Anthony can't write good books... it's that he seems to be unable to stop writing before an idea dies a hideous death.

 

Take his Xanth series... A Spell For Chameleon: Very Interesting. The Source of Magic: Still Pretty Interesting. Castle Roogna: Getting Noticeably Less Interesting. Centaur Aisle: Only Rarely Interesting. Later Books: Just Shoot Me.

 

Likewise his Incarnations of Immortality books. On A Pale Horse: Very Cool. Bearing An Hourglass: Sorta Cool. With A Tangled Skein: Not So Cool. Wielding A Red Sword: Bring That Red Sword Over Here And Slash My Wrists, Would'ya?

[Delthrien]

Nowhere Man

 

I acutally had a character like this, inspired by a power in the the old FGU game, "Psi World." The power was called "forgotten" IIRC. Essentially it was a blessing as much as a curse. The poor bastard with this power could only be remembered for an amount of time equal to the length of the interaction. That is, if you had a 5-minute conversation with him and he left, 5 minutes afterward, you'd forget about him.

 

We simulated this with invisibility to memory for the power and with a physical disad for the downside of the ability. The points were even roughly matched. Coincidence?...

[Kristopher]

Is there any way for another character to resist this effect? Personally, I don't care much for powers that actively do things to other characters and don't have any method of defense available.

 

And yes, Invisibility to Memory IS doing something to another character, unlike normal Invisibililty, which is does something to the character using the power, or to the light or the sound or whatever.

 

[Just A Guy Name]

Another reason to just build it as Mental Illusions (my preference) or Transform (if you are of that school:p )

Although, playing the Devil's Advocate for a moment, if it is a type of Invisibility, how do you defend yourself against Invisibility? Buy another sense to replace the one being foxed! What would that other sense be? ...Beats the heck outta me:confused:

[GrimJesta]

Memory" as being perception of the past, then I guess you could treat it as a nontargeting sense, probably of the Mental Group. Then you could affect it with sense-affecting powers such as Flash, or Invisibility.

Thats really, really cool. I think I might just make memory just that. Very cool. Different, but makes sense in a strange way.

 

Perception of the past...

 

-=Grim=-

[Victim]

How about Invisibility to just about everything, but with the Time Delay advantage? Set the delay so that the power takes effect after the encounter ends, or whatever. Then they interact normally at first, then the power turns on and they didn't see you.

[Kristopher]

For most SFX, Invisibility to Sight is doing something to the light and/or the character, not to the target(s). With Invisibility, it's the sound and/or the character, not the target(s). "Invisibility to Memory" is doing something TO the target, and as soon as one character is doing something to another, there has to be some way for the target to resist/counter that effect.

 

And as much as handwaving it that way might appeal to some people, memory is not a Sense to begin with.

[Farkling]

Invisibility works as a model for the same reason as Mental Illusions. It is limited invisibility, after all, I can see the guy, target the guy and shoot the guy...all things invisibility normally helps proterct against.

 

Now, this might sound odd...

Invisible (Sight, Sound, Smell), Bright Fringe. Side Effect:: Character can be targetted with no abnormal difficulty, but specific features cannot be identified.

 

Think of it as a Chameleon Invisibility that blends as people, a a character that is a metaphoirical blur. Joe Average.

Kind of a concelament in plain sight sort of thing.

 

I'm not messing with the target's MEMORY, I'm messing with his PERception of ME. He remembers seeing me, he simply cannot recall any distinguishing features. No different than the Predator suit chameleon effect, or any other chameleon effect.

 

If his senses operate beyond the normal, then he can spot the "flux in the mophogenetic field" or track my "heartbeat, perspiration, EEG fingerprinting" or my "multidimensional phase variation."

 

Now, Mental Illusions would be required if I effortlesly appeared to be PART of the scene. Invisibility would let me blend in with the VIPER Hit Squad as they fled the scene. MEntal Illusions woul dbe necessary for me to seem to BE A MEMBER of the team. Now, if I coldcock one ot the agents and don his VIPERTech clothes before fleeing with them, my Invisibility Field might help as long as I keep my mouth shut and think quickly.

[Just A Guy Name]

Kristopher seems to have an opinion similar to mine; that making a power "Invisibility to Memory" and thus requiring that Memory be defined as a sense, is sophistry. My opinion is not so strong, however, as I am willing to play along, just for the fun of tinkering with the rules a bit. Frex, Invisibility to Sight is not thought of as affecting the perceiver, but what if you take a limitation on that Invisibility "only vs {particular target}". That target might well be justified in thinking that they were the one being affected, rather than the invisible character. And even other, objective, viewers might be inclined to agree, as they are able to see both parties and yet character b cannot target character a. Likewise, Memory might be a sense in that it detects the otherwise undetectable "Meme Rays" that emanate from all things, but is linked most strongly with causation. Most peoples sense of "Meme rays" is weak, and can only detect causality that they could perceive with their other, stronger senses, but there are some (called "seers" or "clairvoyants") who are able to detect them from further away in the time stream, and without having to be physically near the event.

[zornwil]

I would assume that the recognition is where the problem is, as Farkling indicates, not the memory itself per se. There are people in real life who have a disorder whereby they can neve recognize anyone when meeting them again, no matter how long they've known them - even a spouse. When the person with this disorder is told who they are seeing, they know exactly who the person is and the details of that person, they just have an inability for their brain to use facial/body visual images in retrieving personal identities, whether that problem is a physical brain issue or an emotional one, I don't believe it is known.

 

Anyway, just saying that there is a real life condition that can be used for modeling, and the issue with that is all about PER, basically.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Farkling

Invisibility works as a model for the same reason as Mental Illusions. It is limited invisibility, after all, I can see the guy, target the guy and shoot the guy...all things invisibility normally helps proterct against.

 

Now, this might sound odd...

Invisible (Sight, Sound, Smell), Bright Fringe. Side Effect:: Character can be targetted with no abnormal difficulty, but specific features cannot be identified.

 

Think of it as a Chameleon Invisibility that blends as people, a a character that is a metaphoirical blur. Joe Average.

Kind of a concelament in plain sight sort of thing.

 

I'm not messing with the target's MEMORY, I'm messing with his PERception of ME. He remembers seeing me, he simply cannot recall any distinguishing features. No different than the Predator suit chameleon effect, or any other chameleon effect.

 

You're still messing with the target, you just said so yourself. If the bluring effect had the SFX of affecting the environment, and blurred the image by messing with the light and sound, that would be one thing. But as soon as you start fooling with other characters' perceptions, there has to be some way for them to resist or counter what you're doing.

 

To me, this is a basic and concrete gaming axiom: NO uncounterable powers, NO unstoppable effects against characters.

[Farkling]

WooooHooo!!! Someone is putting words in my mouth!!

 

Flame War Flame War !!!

 

No, but seriously.

 

Let's say I purchase FULL invisibility?

What allows the character to see me and recognize me? Nothing.

There is no book "defense" against Invisibility except enhanced senses beyond the cover capability. Trump Card:: I buy a unique Unusual Sense.

What

 

It is the same with Desol, there is no defense beyond the "common special effects." Again; Trump Card:: Affects Desol Power Advantage.

 

It's the same with an EB used against Fully Hardened PD and ED at the Campaign Limit. There is no penetrating combat effect. Trump Card: NND or AVLD Power Advantage

 

For most SFX, Invisibility to Sight is doing something to the light and/or the character, not to the target(s). With Invisibility, it's the sound and/or the character, not the target(s). "Invisibility to Memory" is doing something TO the target, and as soon as one character is doing something to another, there has to be some way for the target to resist/counter that effect.

For most SFX...aye, there's the rub. So, if I want to be Invisible by nature of a subconscious Telepathy or Mental Illusions effect, I have to buy Telepthy or MI and MAKE it work? I am unable to buy Invisibility, SFX: Psionic Cloak (rock rock rock) ; or +5 DCV, costs END, SFX: Displacer Field?

 

Invisibility blocks PER of the target. Full Invisibility blocks it completely. The basic power description IN NO WAY indicates that EVERYONE will be automatically affected. I do NOT advocate "Invisible to Memory", that IS a Transform attack. "Forget I was ever here" (classic Vampyre line) is a Mind Control effect. Unrecognizability? What's wrong with Invisibility for that? Ye average player cannot break the Vampire "forget command" without Telepathy and a Mind Probe...

 

Invisiblity (Sight, Sound, Smell) - limitation: Invisibility prevents Identification, not targetting. Please note, radio based and unusual senses can identify this character. A character completely immune to identification needs scads of Mental Illusions, to affect ALL senses. This charcter's voice has no identifying feratures, his description is blatantly average, and his scent is so faint it is untraceable. That sounds SO comic book to me. Can Wolverine track him? Possibly, but he'll ne make his PER roll for Tracking scent by at least 10.

 

If it is that big of a gamebreaker, then it can be a -0 limitation. My personal opinion is that If someone tried to make ME buy a flavour power for full price, I'd buy it WITHOUT the flavour limitation, or build a different character.