Steve Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 One thing I've noticed in the change to 6th edition is that the martial arts are now more cost effective to purchase using lower levels of STR and buying more Extra DC instead for damage. In 5th Edition, STR provided a boost to figured characteristics, so many martial artists would buy STR in the 20-30 range. In 6th Edition, it is now both more cost effective and endurance-efficient to have a STR in the 10-15 range, then buy 2-3 more Extra DCs than you would have bought under 5th. The Extra DCs have the advantage of not costing any endurance (which an additional 10-15 points of STR would). Has anyone else noticed this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanee Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Seems about right to me. Strength has other advantages besides dealing damage (with the fairly small extra Endurance cost disadvantage). Bye Thanee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR But you still would probably wany some PD to sop up the damage that gets through, and REC to recover from damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR But you still would probably wany some PD to sop up the damage that gets through' date=' and REC to recover from damage.[/quote'] True enough, but you no longer get these for 'free' by buying STR. Since a MA DC (4pts) is cheaper than 1 DC worth of STR (5pts), it reinforces the argument that it is more cost effective to buy MA DCs than STR... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR In straight-up combat that's true. However, one's 10 STR martial arts master might end up regretting the cost savings if pinned under an overturned bookcase that his extra damage classes won't help him lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR In straight-up combat that's true. However' date=' one's 10 STR martial arts master might end up regretting the cost savings if pinned under an overturned bookcase that his extra damage classes won't help him lift.[/quote'] I wonder if a Shove maneuver would help with this? I think one side effect of 6th will be a lowering of average STR in martial artist types. A 20 STR would seem a reasonable maximum to take given the change in costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceprincessecho Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR In straight-up combat that's true. However' date=' one's 10 STR martial arts master might end up regretting the cost savings if pinned under an overturned bookcase that his extra damage classes won't help him lift.[/quote'] A real martial arts master doesn't need to lift the bookcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR I think it depends on your concept of what a martial artist is. If I was running a martial arts game, I'd probably be using a setting where you're expected to have at least 20 STR to open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR I'm probably wrong, but... I was under the impression damage maxed out at double your strength's damage classes or double the weapon's damage classes for heroic games. So, if I have a 10 ST martial artist with +4 damage classes he still only does 4d6. If I have a gladius that does 1d6 KHA and a bunch of strength and a bunch of damage classes I still cap out at 2d6 (unless the GM let's me go over at the risk of breaking the weapon). An exception might be damage classes gained from converting CSLs to damage. This may be legacy information that doesn't apply in 6E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR One thing I've noticed in the change to 6th edition is that the martial arts are now more cost effective to purchase using lower levels of STR and buying more Extra DC instead for damage. In 5th Edition, STR provided a boost to figured characteristics, so many martial artists would buy STR in the 20-30 range. In 6th Edition, it is now both more cost effective and endurance-efficient to have a STR in the 10-15 range, then buy 2-3 more Extra DCs than you would have bought under 5th. The Extra DCs have the advantage of not costing any endurance (which an additional 10-15 points of STR would). Has anyone else noticed this? This is interesting, because I've stated before that for the most part, Martial Artists had too high of Strength, especially if they were "normal" characters. I do have a question, or two though. Are the sample characters Supers or normal? And on a related note, how are the compared to other characters representd? I'm wondering because some of the older characters didn't have all the niffty things to increase damage to their martial arts as they do now, like weapon elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Take the lower damage class and buy Find Weakness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Find Weakness doesn't exist in 6E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Find Weakness doesn't exist in 6E. It doesn't? Has something else replaced it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Armor Piercing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Naked Advantage Armor Piercing with limitations. There are rules for multiple levels of Armor Piercing in the APG, although at a certain point you're better off with AVLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Naked Advantage Armor Piercing with limitations. There are rules for multiple levels of Armor Piercing in the APG' date=' although at a certain point you're better off with AVLD.[/quote'] There is no AVLD. There's AVAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR My friend was considering a long term defense drain Seems about right to me. Strength has other advantages besides dealing damage (with the fairly small extra Endurance cost disadvantage). Bye Thanee Indeed, in fact ... If I character buys a -1/2 limitation (x2 endurance cost) on a 50 strength, it gets back 17 points. If the character uses its strength 3 times a turn, it burns 15 extra endurance, The character could buy +17 recovery to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Armor Piercing? Duh. That makes complete and total sense. Find Weakness = Armor Piercing Naked Advantage with the Limitation Requires a Skill Roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodkins Odds Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Duh. That makes complete and total sense. Find Weakness = Armor Piercing Naked Advantage with the Limitation Requires a Skill Roll! And this way, your attacks effectiveness are more easily measurable since Armor Piercing adds to the DCs of attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Find Weakness should take a -2 OCV penalty to hit the weak spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Find Weakness should take a -2 OCV penalty to hit the weak spot Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceprincessecho Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR Possibly to represent it being harder to hit a weak spot. I don't know that I'd say it's necessary, though. I'm also not exactly sure how to model it in 6E. (Inaccurate is 1/2 OCV, I believe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: Martial Arts and STR unless the combat value is 5 or lower a 1/2 OCV penalty for a -1/4 limitation doesn't seem worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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