Paint Grenades Write-Up (5th)

[Marcus Impudite]

Paint Grenades:

Minor Transform 3d6 (turn target bright orange [+1 to others Sight PER], soap and water washable), Partial Transform (+½), Explosion (+½), (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), Range Based On STR (-¼), 6 Charges (-¾). Real Cost: 20-points.

A variation on the dye bombs banks try to slip into the loot bag during a robbery. Doesn't do any BODY or STUN, but could make it difficult for the affected character to hide in a crowd since they've been (fully or partially) painted bright orange. The effects of the grenade are healed by bathing and washing/changing your clothes.

[Armitage]

The Paint Gun in the 6e Hero System Equipment Guide and the 5e Gadgets & Gear is built as a Cosmetic Transform, but it doesn't provide a PER bonus for the target to be seen.

[Marcus Impudite]

My reasoning is that, in most places, being covered in bright orange paint is going to make you stand out quite a bit (thus the Minor Transform and the +1 to other people's Sight PER rolls for High Contrast, See the Sight Perception Modifiers Table in 5th Ed Rev). As stated in the flavor text, these grenades are a variation on the dye bombs banks often use against bank robbers.

[massey]

Sounds like the exact definition of Cosmetic Transform to me.

[Lucius]

Sounds like the exact definition of Cosmetic Transform to me.

Depends on whether or not you're willing to let Costmetic Transform impose what amounts to a small Complication, a bonus to Perception rolls to see the character.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says it looks Cosmetic but it's Complicated

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

I would perhaps do it as:

 

Paint Grenades: Sight Group Images, +3 To PER Rolls AOE: 8 Meter Surface Explosion (+1/4), (24 APs) Set Effect (Paint; -1), RBOS (-1/4), 6 Charges (-3/4) OAF (-1) 6 RPs. 

 

 

 

I Think This Works Better!

 

As Words Die, I Always Have Do Things Different!

[bigbywolfe]

I would perhaps do it as:

 

Paint Grenades: Sight Group Images, +3 To PER Rolls AOE: 8 Meter Surface Explosion (+1/4), (24 APs) Set Effect (Paint; -1), RBOS (-1/4), 6 Charges (-3/4) OAF (-1) 6 RPs.

 

 

 

I Think This Works Better!

 

As Words Die, I Always Have Do Things Different!

I don't think that works how you think it works.

As a Constant Power without Continuing Charges the Image will disappear as quickly as an Instant Power. Even if you make it last, the person simply leaves the area of the Image Power and is no longer affected by it.

Also, I don't think the use of Surface is appropriate for the AOE, but I may be wrong there.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

I don't think that works how you think it works.

As a Constant Power without Continuing Charges the Image will disappear as quickly as an Instant Power. Even if you make it last, the person simply leaves the area of the Image Power and is no longer affected by it.

Also, I don't think the use of Surface is appropriate for the AOE, but I may be wrong there.

1) Images will, unless you fail a DCV 3 roll, always paint the target. Besides, The Paint Is Extremely Visible and can be seen for a long way, much like the example of a ball of light. You are correct that I forgot to put a continuing charge,

2) Surface would be the best because it describes any type of surface. You could throw it on a corner of a room and it would paint both walls and the ceiling/floor. You could throw it on a person. If this didn't happen, I would, indeed, use Radius. However, since corner tricks DO work, I would use surface. 

 

 

As Words Die, I Cannot Get Anything Fully Right Anymore. 

[Chris Goodwin]

I always liked using an Entangle, 0 DEF, 0 BODY, Does Not Restrain Target (Unless Eyes Or Eye Coverings Hit), Does Not Prevent Movement, Takes No Damage From Attacks, Removed Completely By Washing, etc.  

[bigbywolfe]

1) Images will, unless you fail a DCV 3 roll, always paint the target. Besides, The Paint Is Extremely Visible and can be seen for a long way, much like the example of a ball of light. You are correct that I forgot to put a continuing charge,

2) Surface would be the best because it describes any type of surface. You could throw it on a corner of a room and it would paint both walls and the ceiling/floor. You could throw it on a person. If this didn't happen, I would, indeed, use Radius. However, since corner tricks DO work, I would use surface.

 

 

As Words Die, I Cannot Get Anything Fully Right Anymore.

I'm not sure why you are talking about DCV, I know how AOE works. You didn't deal with the fact that the target can literally make a singe combat move and be outside of the Image's Area of Effect. Defining the Image's SFX as "paint" doesn't make it magically stick to people and have the Image's effects follow the target around.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

I'm not sure why you are talking about DCV, I know how AOE works. You didn't address the Charge problem. The target will be "painted" for a single phase and then all effect of Images will go away because it is a Constant Power that is not being maintained. Applying the SFX "paint" doesn't magically change how Constant Powers work. I don't find being easier to hit for 1 second to be particularly useful.

I put the line "You are correct that I forgot to put a continuing charge"

 

 

 

As Words Die, I Find It Is Getting Harder To Notice The Flaws In My Argument

[bigbywolfe]

I misread, sorry, I was editing my response when you responded.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

You're fine

[bigbywolfe]

Any response to the edited question about your build?

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

The sticking to people can be defined as Mobile (Target's Movement Per Phase) (+1) for up to 24 APs of Paint Grenades (24 APs) Only Moves With Character Target (-1) 12 RPs

 

 

 

 

As Words Die, The Combat Use of This Should Be Considered Strange!!!

[bigbywolfe]

So if you hit a group of 3-5 thugs with a paint grenade and they scatter?

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

OK, So Its not perfect. I Think Its Simpler.

[bigbywolfe]

No, it doesn't. I painted 5 enemies to make them all easier targets. They all ran different directions. The paint magically disappears off of all but one of them. That makes no sense. Selective doesn't somehow fix that

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

What! Look At My Post!

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

Double Post Sorry

[bigbywolfe]

I'm not sure why you are saying "look at my post". When I replied the post said to use Selective, then you edited it.

 

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but I don't understand how this is "simpler". Your original post doesn't do what the item described is supposed to do. When that's pointed out you suggest adding more Advantages that still don't fix the problem. Obviously in your games you can do it however you want, but you are far into House Rule territory with that build.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

O.K. I can't do this anymore. I never said that transform was bad, I just thought Images was better. I never wanted an argument.

 

As Words Die, I wish To Be A Pacifistic Devil.

[bigbywolfe]

I didn't want an argument either, I'm trying to discuss your build and how you see it working because it doesn't do what you are claiming it does. Everything is "simpler" if we just ignore the rules, but generally when discussing Power builds we use RAW builds or acknowledge that we are working off of a house rule.

[ghost-angel]

The build won't work for the OP because they request 5th Ed.; which doesn't have AoE Surface for on thing.

 

Neither here nor there, Images looks like it would be a good choice, but it isn't really that great an option.

 

I wonder if perhaps Shapeshift; UAA; Color Of An Object Only might be viable.

 

I like Transform better though, either Cosmetic or Minor works well for this.

[Lucius]

The problem with Transform is that a larger target, having a bigger BOD, is less likely to be effected.

 

A paint grenade that turns Zombie Herve Villachaize a bright orange all over should, if it hits Fat Albert, leave a big bright obvious orange stain. If the attack turns Little Debbie orange but leaves the Hulk just as green all over as he ever was because it didn't have enough BOD to effect him, then we are still building it wrong.

 

I think Johnny Appleseed was right, the solution is probably some form of Images.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary dyes an apple orange, then dyes an orange apple.