Super Hero Campaign Guidelines

[Ninja-Bear]

Hello Heroes,

 

This may seem like an odd question, considering I do GM but how do YOU set up (if any) campaign guidelines? I realized that with my Speedster question, CG are a little bit more required if I want to some more consistency in building characters. When I started, after my first character was built, I went and built my own. I however built them with he unspoken expectations (I believe now) that were written in the sample of Champions 4th. I also built characters based the samples shown in the book. I also built characters with the thought of why not? Example  Black Cat has just PD 3! he does have other Defensive Powers bought through an IAF-Amulet, but still. I also had the "they're only normal" that in play needed to be pumped up to fit in the rest of the group.  But to sum up this sort of ramble, I never really sat down and figured out the whys for my own campaigns of how any campaigns should be.  

 

So there it is. what do you guys or gals look for when choosing campaign guidelines?

 

TIA

 

(Also I hope this thread will help others that my not be so inclined to ask for themselves.)

[Duke Bushido]

I am quite possibly the worst person to ask this of, but in the spirit of getting things rolling, I'll take a shot.

 

I look at the players character sheets.  If I already have plans for an adventure, I adjust them (if needed) based on what I see on the sheet.  As the first couple of adventures go on, I make adjustments on the fly as needed, taking copious notes of who and what where changed and why.  This gives me valuable assistance for planning the next session.  The second  session usually requires fewer adjustments, and by the third, I've pretty well got it dialed in.

 

That's it.

 

My campaign guidelines are "make the characters you're interested in playing."  I'll work around everything else.

 

 

Again: I was totally up-front and admitted I'd be the worst person to ask this of.  If you were wondering why:

 

Except for the youth group, I've been playing with the same couple of groups for years.  We all know each other well; we all trust each other to not go out of our way to cause problems.  Of course, the other side of that statement is the part that says "for years."  I've got a lot of practice at seeing problems as soon as they start to arise, and getting them ironed out before they actually become full-fledged problems.

 

Other things that are important:

 

Most of my games take place in the same universe.  That's not to say that it's like the official time line with the rise and fall of magic, fantasy, supers, sci-fi-- each setting is unique to itself, but for the most part, I have _one_ supers setting, and we've been using it since 1e.   Honestly, if Stan Lee can put a few hundred supers on Long Island and they never run into each other, then I can do the same thing.

 

I have two western settings (the occult one and a more "normal" one), and all our westerns take place there.  I have two sci-fi settings-- well, three at the moment, because we're playing with a short-term Atomic Rockets / retrofuture sort of thing (yes; I had to take a trip to Atlanta, and yes; I finally got all my old X Minus One off the open reel and into my phone, and yes; that probably had a _lot_ to do with it   ).   I have a few fantasy settings (weird, for a guy who really doesn't dig fantasy), but only a couple that we hit regularly.

 

So there's not a lot of work to do so far as creating a setting; we are all familiar with it.  Honestly, there was never a lot of work: we built them all as we went, during play (yeah...  lots of notes in those early days...   ).  But today, all I really need is to come up with is a plot: whole cloth, or a few twist to an old one.

 

As far as limits on the characters, I'm not much help to you there, either: the players are comfortable making what they want to play, and I am comfortable letting them do it.  If one guy has a 34d6 Energy Blast and another guy throws tennis balls, I can still make each one important to the plot, and find plenty of challenges appropriate to both.  I really hate the analogy (mostly because I really dislike both characters), how many decades have writers been finding ways to justify Superman and Batman being on the same team?

 

For that matter, a team full of superheroes and _any_ archer?

 

It's the same thing: I put in a lot of behind the scenes time to ensure that there is something for the archer to do, and that he's not going to run into....   crap.  Who's someone against whom an archer is ridiculous? I don't know enough comic books...   Galactus?  Is he still a thing?  Yep.  Google says he's still a thing.  Google also says that the Avengers have fought him, and according to the roster, there was an archer on the team.  Yeah, I know.  But again-- they made it work.   The biggest adjustments are usually reviewing the character sheets and prepping the players:

 

Oh.  You made an archer.  Okay, that's cool; I can keep you busy, but you understand that you're not going to survive pretty much _any_ powerful villain single-handedly, right?

 

Oh.  You made a moon-splitter.  You understand excessive force and a trail of bodies is going to cause you no end of grief, right?

 

Okay.  We good?  Let's roll dice.

 

I know: it sounds ugly, telling the archer's player that he's going to get splattered by the big-big bads as they enter the story, but is it?  Is it uglier than letting him try to go it alone against Galactus because his teammates are starting to fall?  Or is it better that he be prepared to _assist_ in that situation, and maybe help gather fallen friends and get them to safety?

 

Is it worse for the story that Nuclear Bomb man get reminded that the power he built-- which I _will_ find occasion for him to use-- is not something he should keep ready for anything?  Or is it worse to let him one-shot murder every villain he runs into, becoming a villain in his own right, and forcing his teammates to turn on him (and him to kill the archer)?

 

I work with what they give me.

 

That's my "campaign guideline."

 

 

I know it's not really what you were looking for, but I was just trying to get the ball rolling.   😕

 

 

[Grailknight]

There's so many questions that are going to be worked into my answer.

 

First, how dangerous will the regular authorities be to your heroes? This may seem secondary, but it sets the tone of the campaign if your heroes can be taken down by a prepped SWAT team as individuals, even more so if they can threaten the group as a whole.  You're People with Powers or super skilled MA's like Batman and your range of DCV and PD/ED/Defenses will need to be something that can be threatened by standard real world weapons and seriously harmed by military grade equipment.

 

For tougher Supers, you need to decide what can the normal authorities affect them with.  The change to the KA Stun Multiplier was a big help in keeping Supers super. You can take that a step further by giving all Supers one or two levels of Damage Negation only vs Real weapons as a campaign rule. Only Supers or people with special equipment can deal with other Supers then.

 

Next, how dangerous are you to to people and the environment? When that highly armored Swat unit or Viper agents show up do you one-shot them or does it take two hits? Are you doing negligible BODY or inflicting life threatening wounds? What happens to a Normal struck by these attacks? I long ago imposed an optional rule that any Normal Character Maxima NPC's take 1.5x STUN from all Superpowers with 2x Effect vs Mental Powers. In a higher powered campaign Normal objects would also take 1.5x BODY from most attacks and 2x BODY from KA's. Gives that Justice League feel to the characters without needing to go to really high DC's.

 

Then write some boundary characters. Write your weakest villain show him/her to your players and let them know they should be able to take them down barring extreme bad luck. Do the same but with opposite expectations for your toughest opponent. Let them know that they should be able to effect but not threaten them as starting PC's individually but they might be able to handle him as a team. You might want to wait for their final sheet before you finalize him.

 

Doing all this should give you a good starting point for defenses and DC's. You then just have to address the often overlooked problem of CV's and Skill levels. If you are going to be strict about anything as a GM this is the first place to start. It's ok for Normals and agents to need 8 or 9 or less to hit most Supers but that won't do for PC's and NPC's. From experience, nothing frustrates players more than being unable to hit the enemy. Similarly, don't make opponents that only miss on 15 or more. It's fine to have one or two opponents that stretch this but that should be their schtick.

 

I could go on but this covers the basics.

 

If I was rewriting Hero, I'd make at least 1/4 of the book advice for new GM's. It's the biggest failing of the books to not take into account people new to the system. We even fall into this trap on the boards, too many answers are given that assume an experienced GM and players and don't take into account the Hero growth curve from inexperienced noobs who could barely write a character,  to users who understand the system and fall into various degrees of power-gaming/abusing it, then veterans and who know most of the ends and outs of the system and write fair and balanced PC's,  and finally us old veterans who know the system so well we don't need books to write a character and can spot any loopholes and abuses at a glance.

 

Oh, and I don't look down on power gaming. It's intrinsic to any game system and even more so in a math driven one like HERO. I actually believe that all GM's should power game writeups in their spare time. It's the quickest way to learn the system and you'll be able to tell a player why you disallowed a power upfront instead of having to learn it in session.

[Ninja-Bear]

Well Grailknight to answer your one question, I’m using Viper agents as a benchmark of what Heroes should be able to take out regularly unless they roll horribly. I’m keeping this Silver Ageish so real world weapons may not be a concern. 

[Ninja-Bear]

The one decision I’m going to dread is defining Blocking Ranged Attacks. How much of a negative would be required to Block anything, -5?

[Ninja-Bear]

Well after giving hard thought, I’m going to start with Low-Powered Super Heroes as a guideline. I think I will bump up though the suggested benchmark of 15 DEF to 20 DEF. I want to peg Average DC to 10.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Duke Bushido, I wish I could be more off the cuff of a GM but I ain’t. I need (and want) the consistency that this project should bring. Plus it’s fun writing Heroes too!

[Duke Bushido]

I understand, but remember: I wanst born "off the cuff."  The other way to look at it is "stuck in a rut." 

 

what I have going on is oje of the better side effects of decades of essentially the same people in the games.  You each becone famikiar with each other's expectations and styles.

 

nothing super special there.  Call it "continuity."    

 

 

[archer]

I'm more comfortable with a 4 color superhero world. If you miss your target with your energy blast, it's going to dissipate into nothing (regardless of RAW) or hit random nearby scenery rather than bystanders unless I tell your that by making the shot you're going to be shooting into a crowd.

 

I expect players to not take Killing Attacks (without significant limitations) unless they want to kill people and have their hero character written out of the team campaign. There's a reason why the Punisher is a loner who kills drug dealers rather than a founding member of the Fantastic Four.

 

Mostly I look over character sheets before starting and make adjustments. If there's not enough defenses or resistant defenses, they have to bump them up. If their attacks are too powerful or too efficient, they'll have to be dialed back. I let people know if I screw up by letting a character in which causes problems, I might make the player do a rewrite or play a different character.

 

I don't really have a problem with the archer who has the never-ending quiver of arrows playing with Superman and Thor. The bow is just an attack delivery device which could be renamed a ping pong ball gun and be equally valid. 

[Duke Bushido]

Its not the archers weaponry that is a problem (theoretically; though dropping Dr Desteoyer with a boxing glove on a stick does rankle a bit.  I will allow it without question, as it preserves the fun, however).  Its his native power level.

 

His defenses are normal human flesh under a jerkin.  His BOD and Stun are normalish.  His DEX and SPD are normal (again: ish). Its kind of the same problem I have with Batman fighting alongside lesser gods.  In his own title, things are scaked for him.  When they are scaked foe superman, its a bit harder to keep him relevant.

 

If someone wanrs to build a super powred archer, go for it.

 

But they never do.

 

Well, except that one Hermit is writing about.

 

I totally understand the idea that "well, his defense is the skill levels he has put into his OCV.  Sure.  No problem.  But when the Hulk rolls a 3, the archer is going to die, period.

 

I feel it is my _job_ to point this out, so they dont actually send thw Archer to wrestle the Hulk when he should be plinking away from a safe(r) distance.

 

Am I really doing something wrong if, as the GM, and after warning the player, thw archer still swings in to the front line, smacks the Hulk in the nose, gets hit with a bus, and dies from it?  Just like he was cautioned against?

 

The players need to know up-front that I am willing to prepare and present appropriate challenges to _all_ of their characters, but I see no problem with expecting them to know the difference.

 

(Sorry for the typos; I am on a phone, and damned cold)

 

[Ninja-Bear]

@archerwell with your name, I hope you wouldn’t have a problem with archers 😁.

[Ninja-Bear]

43 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Am I really doing something wrong if, as the GM, and after warning the player, thw archer still swings in to the front line, smacks the Hulk in the nose, gets hit with a bus, and dies from it?  Just like he was cautioned against?

 

Well...... no BUT isn’t depending on genre? If you’re running a Silver Age game though that sorta thing wouldn’t happen in source, right? Other Ages it would. 

[Ninja-Bear]

@Grailknight, so I’m looking at your suggestion of developing benchmarks. So to start somewhere, my characters that were originally created for me I’m not going to mess with and use those as Benchmarks to compare my own characters with.

[archer]

2 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well...... no BUT isn’t depending on genre? If you’re running a Silver Age game though that sorta thing wouldn’t happen in source, right? Other Ages it would. 

 

I remember a Daredevil comic from the 1970's which ended with Daredevil looking like he's going up against the Hulk.

 

The next issue started off with like 5 pages of Daredevil's superhero friends coming to visit him in the hospital.

 

No fight scenes at all. Just a panel with the FF coming to visit him in the hospital. Then a panel with Spiderman coming to visit him in the hospital. Then a panel with the Avengers coming to visit him in the hospital. Then a panel of Power Man and Iron Fist coming to visit him in the hospital....

 

Honestly, it was one of the most memorable comic books ever, for me.

[Dr.Device]

32 minutes ago, archer said:

 

I remember a Daredevil comic from the 1970's which ended with Daredevil looking like he's going up against the Hulk.

 

The next issue started off with like 5 pages of Daredevil's superhero friends coming to visit him in the hospital.

 

No fight scenes at all. Just a panel with the FF coming to visit him in the hospital. Then a panel with Spiderman coming to visit him in the hospital. Then a panel with the Avengers coming to visit him in the hospital. Then a panel of Power Man and Iron Fist coming to visit him in the hospital....

 

Honestly, it was one of the most memorable comic books ever, for me.

 

So the fight went well, then.

[Scott Ruggels]

51 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well...... no BUT isn’t depending on genre? If you’re running a Silver Age game though that sorta thing wouldn’t happen in source, right? Other Ages it would. 

This is the difference between a game and a comic book, though.  Dice rolls happen, often where a script would not go. 

[Duke Bushido]

27 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well...... no BUT isn’t depending on genre? If you’re running a Silver Age game though that sorta thing wouldn’t happen in source, right? 

 

21 minutes ago, archer said:

 

I remember a Daredevil comic from the 1970's which ended with Daredevil looking like he's going up against the Hulk.

 

The next issue started off with like 5 pages of Daredevil's superhero friends coming to visit him in the hospital.

 

 

 

 

I think the second post gives the answer, but for the most part, I think you are probably correct: it doesn't generally occur within the source material, at least not for a given type of game.

 

Why doesn't it?

 

Because the author (singular) or editor (singular) decides for each and every character what they will do and when.

 

We can talk simulation all day long, but at the end of the day, each player character is controlled by someone who is _not_ us, and will, if not warned up front, decide that his moment to shine involves an uppercut to Godzilla.

 

Whwn one author cpntrols everything, the archer will find a safe place from which to plink away at Godzilla.  When a player controls his own character, that character is just as likely to think he can get away with kicking Godzilla in the crotch.

 

The source material can be a lot of fun, and can help everyone involved envision the spirit and feel,of the campaign, and give the players a guide as to what kind of characters and action they should look forward to and prepare for.

 

However, I personally will go out of my way to tell them- up front, so there are no misunderstandings- that they will _not_ be able to wear that setting as a suit of armor against the results of abject stupidity.  I cant stick to the conventions of a particular setting if they don't.

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Another concept I’m going to use is the “character tax” (I didn’t name it and I wish whoever did I’d remember to credit). Anyways it’s the minimum you need for the character to be playable. For example, Black Cat, as originally written has a base PD 3 (though he does have some other defense powers). So what I plan to do is rewrite him with PD 8 (and with some other defenses).

[archer]

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

 

I think the second post gives the answer, but for the most part, I think you are probably correct: it doesn't generally occur within the source material, at least not for a given type of game.

 

Why doesn't it?

 

Because the author (singular) or editor (singular) decides for each and every character what they will do and when.

 

We can talk simulation all day long, but at the end of the day, each player character is controlled by someone who is _not_ us, and will, if not warned up front, decide that his moment to shine involves an uppercut to Godzilla.

 

Whwn one author cpntrols everything, the archer will find a safe place from which to plink away at Godzilla.  When a player controls his own character, that character is just as likely to think he can get away with kicking Godzilla in the crotch.

 

The source material can be a lot of fun, and can help everyone involved envision the spirit and feel,of the campaign, and give the players a guide as to what kind of characters and action they should look forward to and prepare for.

 

However, I personally will go out of my way to tell them- up front, so there are no misunderstandings- that they will _not_ be able to wear that setting as a suit of armor against the results of abject stupidity.  I cant stick to the conventions of a particular setting if they don't.

 

 

 

This ^.

 

I may not choose every single moment of abject stupidity from a player to kill off his campaign characters. 

 

But they also don't have Plot Armor which makes them impervious to the consequences of their actions.

[Ninja-Bear]

So I started to work on revamping my characters. First up is Black Cat. I’m pleasantly surprised because I do have a background for him. And besides the low PD, he has some other unique abilities such as Transformation: Target having 3D6 Unluck!

[Ninja-Bear]

@archeri should amend my answer from comics to cartoons. My information of comic book characters is primarily formed from watching the cartoon versions. Whether that’s good or bad is anterior of opinion.

[assault]

My approach is: all PCs start on the same points.

 

"Only human" is the default. I discourage, or simply ban, characters weaker than that. (Unless, of course, they spend most of their time in a stronger form. Bruce Banner can be weaker, but the Hulk gets most play time.)

 

Glass cannons are not allowed. All characters need to be able to take at least one campaign standard level hit without being taken out, and taking two is preferable.

 

The only difference between an archer and any other blaster is in their special effects.

 

A character that spends lots of points on skills will, of course, be weaker in some ways than a character that spends the points on powers. That's a matter of design choices.

Similarly, a character that tries to do two things at once, like, say, an archer who is also a martial artist, or a brick with a blast, will also have to make difficult design choices.

 

Combining the two situations above naturally takes a lot of skill if the character isn't going to suck, or be seriously constrained by Limitations. (Power armour characters are an example of the latter.)

 

Yes, you can end up with Hawkeye and the Hulk, or at least Quicksilver, in the same team through choices of this kind. There are demonstrable benefits to concentrating your points in doing one thing well.

[Ninja-Bear]

@assaulthow are you determining what is campaign appropriate damage levels?

[assault]

3 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@assaulthow are you determining what is campaign appropriate damage levels?

I cheat, of course. 😉

 

I use the suggested guidelines for Standard or Low-Powered Superheroic games. So, an average of 12 DC or 10 DC, depending on context.

 

This works out well with the standard point totals.

[Ninja-Bear]

5 hours ago, assault said:

I cheat, of course. 😉

 

I use the suggested guidelines for Standard or Low-Powered Superheroic games. So, an average of 12 DC or 10 DC, depending on context.

 

This works out well with the standard point totals.

First that isn’t cheating, that’s using resources wisely. 😜 Second though do you keep hard and fast to those suggested guidelines? Or do you tweak them a bit?