Spell Help?

[assault]

I've brain failed on the following spell:

(Special effect description): When the spell is cast, a small storm cloud forms above the caster's head. From it, she can call lighting bolts, storm winds and similar effects. It stays in place for as long as she can maintain it - the more powerful the caster, the longer.

Eventually, however, it goes away, even if the caster doesn't actually use it. Once it is gone, the spell needs to be memorized again before it can be recast.

(I'm actually thinking of building a bunch of spells along these lines. The idea is that a powerful caster might only know a handful of such spells - but they can destroy an army, or a city.)

The "lightning bolts, storm winds and similar effects" are nothing special, aside from mostly being Instant powers. It is important that the spell will end even if the caster doesn't actually do anything with it, and that the more powerful the caster, the longer it will last.

My thoughts: Multiform works, but gets tangled up with Characteristics, Skills and so on irrelevant to the spell.

It could be a fancy Multipower, with the MP being treated as a Power.

End conditions for the spell would include being dispelled, the caster running out of END, becoming Stunned or Unconscious, or just distracted enough that they can't pay enough attention to maintaining it. And probably some other conditions that I haven't thought of. Burnout is too random. Failing a Skill Roll might work - it's random too, but the probability is easier to manipulate.

Any ideas?

[L. Marcus]

Lingering Advantage (5E Fantasy Hero) or Time Limit (6E) is probably what you want. Buy the spell as usual, with the common modifiers (RSR, Extra Time, Gesture, Incantations, what have you), activate the attack, and then as long as the spell is bought to last, attack with it on your turn and pay END for only when you use it (not to maintain it).

[Alcamtar]

8 minutes ago, assault said:

I've brain failed on the following spell:

(Special effect description): When the spell is cast, a small storm cloud forms above the caster's head. From it, she can call lighting bolts, storm winds and similar effects. It stays in place for as long as she can maintain it - the more powerful the caster, the longer.

Any ideas?

 

Limitations on the Multipower: Continuing Charges (recover by memorization), Concentration.

 

The continuing charge controls the duration before it expires, and it has an a concentration on the multipower itself. So you activate the multipower, it remains available until the charge ends or the concentration is violated, and then you have to rememorize to recover the charge. These limitations also implicitly limit the powers in the multipower, but the idea is that the entire multipower is switched on or off by them.

 

If you don't want a limited duration, just use a regular charge. It may or may not be recoverable depending on how easy memorization is. If you want END to be a factor, add an attached END reserve to the Multipower. When you cast the spell the END reserve is fully charged, and when it is depleted the multipower ends and has to be reactivated again.

 

These may or may not correspond precisely to the letter of the rules, but they capture the concept and seem balanced to me and are certainly within the purview of the GM to permit it for this one spell. As far as I am concerned, the only reason to stat out the spell is to come up with a point cost so you know how much to pay for it... otherwise you could just handwave it all like D&D.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I would treat it as a multipower: your spell creates a multipower which you maintain (its not constant).  If you don't maintain it, or are stunned or knocked out, it goes away.

 

This is part of the reason I don't use power frameworks as a magic system: then you cannot have power framework spells built into it.

[assault]

I'm a little bothered by the MP build, because of the slots inheriting the limitations on the pool.

 

I'd rather things work like: you go through all the drama to cast the spell in the first place. You don't need to go through all that every time you want to use a slot.

[DoctorImpossible]

I see this as two different things. One, a spell that makes a roiling thundercloud in the air immediately above your head, so it can be a source for spells. Gets cast at the start of the day (or whenever you think you need to, anticipating a fight coming up), it has a form that lingers and makes it clear so it can be targeted by anti-magic powers or spells, but not a focus that could have a problem with physical or mental attacks. Two, a bunch of spells, apparently mostly storm-themed, that can only be cast if the storm cloud is overhead. 

 

That first one seems like an Endurance Reserve, with no Recovery but a nice big chunk of Endurance, made cheap because it costs some of your own Endurance to make it (but only when making it, after which it sticks around for free), it probably takes something to create it (gestures, an incantation, some kind of Magic Skill Roll, or whatever else you normally use to do a magic spell), it is percievable (that cloud of magical energy that looks like a storm), it only sticks around for however long (I said a day, could be more or less) even if it got left unused. I would personally add ability to dismiss it early, if that is not already an option. Don't want enemies stealing from my storm cloud energy for *their* magic!

 

That second one is the list of various ways you have of using this spell. They needn't be the same uses as other people who cast the same spell. You can have practised the spell itself, and be able to summon your all powerful storm of magic, only to quit study and be unable to do anything with it aside from letting it hover around your head and look cool and impressive to total idiots (an idiot being anyone with no magic). Or you may learn a bunch of ways to throw some lightning or thunder at your enemies, or a way to make the lightning within a cloud glow and pulse brightly for a while, to be a source of light for you, or a peal of loud thunder that will scare enemies, or any of the dozen ideas you've got for storm spell type effects. People who cast this spell as the base for a thorough understanding of those effects might have a dozen different "effects" as powers, all with no limitations except that it can only be powered by the Endurance Reserve of the cloud spell, as it is the only real, full spell in the list. Those who study it in passing as just an idle bit of weather magic in their much broader list of spells, might only have a single effect in a storm cloud spell repertoire, making their cloud shoot lightning, with gestures and incantations required and a magic skill roll before it will work.

[assault]

I've been considering the two different things approach. It does seem to fix some of the problems.

[Scott Ruggels]

I am troubled a bit, by the "Vancian magic", once again being grafted on Hero.

[assault]

12 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

I am troubled a bit, by the "Vancian magic", once again being grafted on Hero.

 

I'll plead guilty, but the plan is to make it actually Vancian, not Gygaxian.

[Mr. R]

44 minutes ago, assault said:

 

I'll plead guilty, but the plan is to make it actually Vancian, not Gygaxian.

 

How is that different?

[assault]

9 minutes ago, Mr. R said:

 

How is that different?

 

Have you read Vance?

[Mr. R]

1 minute ago, assault said:

 

Have you read Vance?

A bit, but not a lot.  Consider me a neophyte to him and explain it that way!

[assault]

An alternative approach would be to create a bunch of minor spirits to summon. Give them some fancy abilities which they can use at will.

[Chris Goodwin]

I would do it with Differing Modifiers. 

Build the Multipower as if it is an ordinary Multipower that the character could use if they constantly had a storm cloud with those effects following them all the time.  The various slots cost END, or not, as they would in the source material or the intent of the builder.   Note down the total Real Cost of the Multipower.  

 

The Base Cost for the spell (i.e. the ability with Differing Modifiers) is the total Real Cost of the Multipower, and then the Differing Modifier Advantages and Limitations apply to that as per standard Differing Modifiers rules.  The Differing Modifiers can be Delayed Effect and Lingering or Time Limit, along with whatever other Advantages and Limitations are taken as part of memorizing the spell.  Once you have memorized it, then the Delayed Effect allows you to activate whenever you want.  

 

[assault]

1 minute ago, Mr. R said:

A bit, but not a lot.  Consider me a neophyte to him and explain it that way!

 

It's been forty years since I read the Dying Earth, so I'm not the right person for this .

 

The main point is that common gamer usage of "Vancian" taken on its own meaning.

[Mr. R]

OK I'll look it up!

[Mr. R]

OK I think I get your meaning. 

 

We now return to our regular thread!

[assault]

I'm reconsidering the Multiform option too 

 

Make it something of a possession effect, and things could get interesting fast  Sure you get your temporary superpowers, but the spirit has its own agenda 

[theinfn8]

Off the top of my head, if you are looking for a "two spell" model, you could have the thundercloud be a Change Environment of whatever magnitude you feel is appropriate and whatever (dis)advantages, then make the magic-user buy each specific use as Linked (-1/4?) to the Change Environment. You can Link however many of those little spells to the big as you want (or Link a multipower).

 

Or, just handwave the initial "spell" that takes an action to start and tag everything with Only in Alternate ID: When Cloud is Active. Personally, I might go that route, since it would be the simplest.