Champions Rises

[Christopher R Taylor]

So, a few years ago, we got together and worked on a project that eventually became Champions Begins.  This has been a very successful and well-regarded product for Hero, and as it is free, its helping a lot of people learn how to play the game.  I am particularly proud how everyone came together with suggestions, tips, ideas, editing, art, etc.

 

Well I want to do that again, but this time we're taking it a step up.  The next project will be Baby's First Campaign for Champions, a premade adventure story starting with the group gathering and ending with a big fight to stop the main bad guy.  In between will be several chained adventures and several drop-in ones, to make up a full campaign arc.  Think of it kind of as an "Adventure Path" for Champions.

 

The principle behind this is to help GMs know how to run an actual campaign and provide players with an intro to the game. I have seen many people ask how on earth to even run a game with superheroes? Almost none of the usual patterns of a D&D game seem to fit: the unclear pattern of advancement, the lack of treasure, the lack of dungeons, the modern setting, etc.  Someone (sorry I cannot recall whom) suggested the name Champions Rises for this product and I like it.

 

Here are my main concerns.  

 

First, this will necessarily be a pretty big book, its got to have a lot of stuff in it such as tips for GMing, tips for play, background for the campaign, a setting (even if very brief), all of the adventures, ideas on how to work in complications, personality, backgrounds, etc of characters into the campaign, the mindset of Champions as opposed to other RPGs (no kill and loot), and maybe even a section on how to build characters, since Champions Begins left that out.  All of that jammed in will be over 200 pages.

 

Second, there is a real need to have at least a stab at helping people build characters.  I'm fine with using fully built characters from the Champions Begins premade ones, but players will want to make their own hero at some point.  And that would necessarily include tips on what kind of characters to make or to avoid, etc.  This could be done as a separate interim book (maybe another freebie) which could follow up on Champions Begins by showing how to make a few of the prebuilt CB characters using the rules in Champions Complete.

 

Third, this would be a much more ambitious book requiring a more ambitious approach.  I'm fine with coloring and reusing old art from previous products but it would be nice to have new, hot art to put in the book as well.  And I'd like to have a really clean, high quality, exciting looking Character Sheet to use as well, something that pops and is evocative of comic books.

 

Fourth, we need adventures.  Thankfully there are a lot of them already printed and available for use in old magazines, adventure books like Champions Presents, and so on that can be mined to assemble a storyline.  And we'd need some drop-in adventures for GMs to use for special occasions such as for when a hunted shows up or a DNPC is needed to activate.  Character story kind of stuff.

 

Speaking of Character Story we'll need to identify and help the GM to use specific hero archetypes that show up: the loner, the crusader, the family man, etc.  Tropes and patterns from existing comic books and movies -- not the characters as their powers and abilities, but their personalities, tendencies, interests, etc.  Armed with those, a set of generic Character Story adventures could be created to target those and show GMs how to work that into a game.

 

Fifth I am sure you all can think of other things that we'll need, such as a setting, villains, time period, etc.

 

Champions Begins took several years to hash out and complete, so this is no hurry but it would be nice to have some discussion about it.

Edited April 17 by Christopher R Taylor

[GDShore]

This sounds like an awesome project. 

 First I think it will have to be devided into sections, one a GM's section, one a player's section and an adventure's section.

Under GM , defining the campaign - is it local, national, inter-national or global.  Is the campaign a solo, duo or group, What I think will be needed is a primer, to teach a novice (very often a group of friends will get togetherto role play, one will volunter to GM, and his knowledge will be near non-existent) a journeyman and a master how to do and how to improve their skill set. The tricks of the trade, how and why they work, the pitfalls that can break a gaming group apart what not to do and why. (this might be the most improtant part of the GM section, the why has to be explained not just told) Next is fleshing out the campaign world, who are the baddies, are they individuals, part of an informal group or a large well defined group with a clear defined goal. (eg. Injustice League - a gather of villains who are associated because they are hunted by a single hero or a batch of heros not neccessarily a defined group, the villains will have their own individual needs, drives or goals not shared by their fellows, or a SMERSH - a large group all working towards a defined goalthat may only be known by the inner cabal, while the minions toil towards it's eventual achievement.) The GM will need to have in their mind what the world will look like for an extended campaign. For the novice an existing set of villains and group[s] of villains is almost a neccessity, for the journeyman/master a DIY primer on purpose, goals and needs of their villains. 

 

As you can see I have been thinking about such for some time my self.

[GDShore]

In the players section should be a how/why to on character build. First define what you want your character to do, then how to do it. What are your strengths, what are your weakness's, who is your nemisis or whose nemisis are you. The GM should be active in assisting the player in the process of building characteristics, powers, skills and disadvantages so that the hero will fit well within the GM's world. (guiding as gently as possible) There should be a chapter on maximizing the characteristics for lowest cost,  developing a balanced and coherent powers and skills set. (not having a fireball with an ice based character) Under characters you will need to flesh out your NPC's and DNPC's these will be needed to give clues to help move the story along, and also to turn the player's around when they take the wrong turn or the misreasoning from the clues found. 

Under adventures, the GM will need to tailor the adventures to the size/makeup of the group and will need to know how to reshape or adapt an adventure on the fly  particularly if a player misses a session. How to build each session as though it were a chapter in a book is also animportant skill to have, also incase the GM mistimes how to stretch or shorten seamlessly. Finally a couple of prepared adventures with explanations of why this or that was done and how to implement or change things as neccesary.

I would very much like to contribute to such a project. 

[dmjalund]

the sections could be their own books - and even sold separately

[Stanley Teriaca]

Humm...we obviously should start with a bank robbery. We end with a city destroying event which would require a few NPC heroes to do things which will free the our heroes to take care of the mastermind.

Edited April 17 by Stanley Teriaca

[Sketchpad]

14 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

First, this will necessarily be a pretty big book, its got to have a lot of stuff in it such as tips for GMing, tips for play, background for the campaign, a setting (even if very brief), all of the adventures, ideas on how to work in complications, personality, backgrounds, etc of characters into the campaign, the mindset of Champions as opposed to other RPGs (no kill and loot), and maybe even a section on how to build characters, since Champions Begins left that out.  All of that jammed in will be over 200 pages.

 

Second, there is a real need to have at least a stab at helping people build characters.  I'm fine with using fully built characters from the Champions Begins premade ones, but players will want to make their own hero at some point.  And that would necessarily include tips on what kind of characters to make or to avoid, etc.  This could be done as a separate interim book (maybe another freebie) which could follow up on Champions Begins by showing how to make a few of the prebuilt CB characters using the rules in Champions Complete.

 

Third, this would be a much more ambitious book requiring a more ambitious approach.  I'm fine with coloring and reusing old art from previous products but it would be nice to have new, hot art to put in the book as well.  And I'd like to have a really clean, high quality, exciting looking Character Sheet to use as well, something that pops and is evocative of comic books.

 

Fourth, we need adventures.  Thankfully there are a lot of them already printed and available for use in old magazines, adventure books like Champions Presents, and so on that can be mined to assemble a storyline.  And we'd need some drop-in adventures for GMs to use for special occasions such as for when a hunted shows up or a DNPC is needed to activate.  Character story kind of stuff.

 

Speaking of Character Story we'll need to identify and help the GM to use specific hero archetypes that show up: the loner, the crusader, the family man, etc.  Tropes and patterns from existing comic books and movies -- not the characters as their powers and abilities, but their personalities, tendencies, interests, etc.  Armed with those, a set of generic Character Story adventures could be created to target those and show GMs how to work that into a game.

 

Fifth I am sure you all can think of other things that we'll need, such as a setting, villains, time period, etc.

 

Champions Begins took several years to hash out and complete, so this is no hurry but it would be nice to have some discussion about it.

 

On the second point: Maybe something like the Player Guides that Pathfinder makes for their adventure paths? Offer advice specifically for this series, while also giving guidelines, etc. 

 

On the third point: I would recommend kickstarting/crowd sourcing so art and design can be paid for. Plenty of companies do such a thing just to fluff their art budget.

 

As far as setting, it might be easier to revisit older books, like Millennium City, to give you the setting you would like. Or you could create a generic city that has just enough info to feed into the adventures, but enough open so groups can flavor and reskin it. Really, using the CU as the backdrop may provide you with some of the story backbeats. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I am inclined toward using Dr Destroyer just because he's the premier villain in Champions and was the subject of the first ever Champions adventure.  But he's so catastrophically powerful its ridiculous to even consider putting a hero team against him.  I'll give it some thought.

 

I've been going through all the adventures in the various Hero magazines, there's a ton of them.  Several seem like they might be useful to string together, but I don't know how customers want to have this presented.  Should we release the adventures separately or in the Champions Rises books?

[Stanley Teriaca]

28 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I am inclined toward using Dr Destroyer just because he's the premier villain in Champions and was the subject of the first ever Champions adventure.  But he's so catastrophically powerful its ridiculous to even consider putting a hero team against him.  I'll give it some thought.

Destroyer can easily be a behind the scenes villain. He would want to test the heroes as opposed to destroying them right now.

28 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I've been going through all the adventures in the various Hero magazines, there's a ton of them.  Several seem like they might be useful to string together, but I don't know how customers want to have this presented.  Should we release the adventures separately or in the Champions Rises books?

That could be doable, with or without Destroyer being the end game mastermind.

 

Telous can easily be the mastermind behind "What Rouge Beast" if we are not going with Destroyer.

 

Humm...any other adventure can we string into this adventure? "Your Horoscope For Aquarous"?

 

Anyways...we should ask for permission of the original writers of each adventure we are going to use. But we should have a backup list if we can't use them.

 

A bank robbery...

...a stolen tech...

...a kidnapping...

...anything else...

(Yadda yada yada)

Edited April 17 by Stanley Teriaca

[DentArthurDent]

I would start with the players.
What parts of the Hero system do you want to showcase to a group of new players?

What parts are easiest to present? (Use these in the first couple of sessions.)

What parts need more depth of familiarity with the Hero system?

What parts are unique to the Hero system? 
What complications are easiest to play? Most difficult?

 

Once you have established a hierarchy of .. I’ll call them .. “game mechanics”, then you have at least a dozen master GMs on this forum with ways to introduce and coach up favorite powers and skills.

 

The last step is to weave it all into a consistent story-line. Again, there are a lot of really good story-tellers on this forum. I’ve read their posts.

 

I’d like to jump in and grab the low hanging fruit:

The first team would probably consist of a flying energy projector, a brick, a stealthy detective, and a master of the mysterious arts.

These seem to be the powers and skills that are easiest for new players to use.

P.S.
Personally, I love the “Ultimate Martial Artist” but I’ve seen so many players trash characters because they couldn’t keep up with the skill levels. So, I would leave this for one of the later sessions. Of course, there is likely someone reading this who has had great success with new players and martial arts.

[Christopher R Taylor]

One introductory scenario I wanted to use for Champions Begins, but ended up setting aside, was suggested by a member of the boards here whose name eludes me.  I apologize, again for having a poor memory.   It was an apartment fire, with the Heroes getting involved and meeting up by fighting the fire, saving people, etc.  I had it worked up partly, with there being various things happening in the apartments, such as a drug deal, an off the books daycare, and several elderly people who could not get out on their own.  At least one hero could easily be living in the apartment, someone might work nearby, etc.  Its a good way for a wide variety of things to take place, lots of heroism to be done, and danger while being contained and a simple event.

 

I think that would work well for a starter.  I like the idea of the bank robbery but its tough to come up with a fresh, engaging way to present a robbery that hasn't been done so much already.  I recently read a Donald Westlake book in which the main characters rob a bank by literally hauling it away: it was a bank in a trailer, while the real bank was being built.  This was the 70s so that kind of thing would happen.  They hooked the trailer up to a semi, sealed the night guards in, cut all the lines, and drove it away.  That has promise as a concept at least: what if the bad guys literally rob the bank -- the entire building?

[Stanley Teriaca]

Ok. I like the idea of the apartment fire.

 

1) it encourages creative use of powers.

2) it encourages a non-violent solving of problems.

3) Chances for role-playing with each NPC saved.

4) If players do well, they have a great chance for positive PR.

[GDShore]

I am not sure about using an existing baddie, I believe that creating one from scratch is a better idea. It would give new player's and especialy new GM's an insight into charactercreation, from concepting, to fleshing the characteristics, to choosing the powers and skill sets and disadvantages. Creating your first character in "Hero System" is quite a jump if what you are used to is D&D, if we can make that esier we may extend our base. 

    I like the idea of an apartment fire to 'assemble' the party. My first event was a multi-car pile up on a major highway as a result of a police chase of "bank robbers".  There are at least as many possibilities to bring hero's together in the apartment senario as there are hero tropes. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

As much as I enjoy creating characters and technically adding them to the Champions universe (I did a couple for Champions Begins), I think it serves the game system better to use existing bad guys that can be plugged into the game.  That helps plug into the existing lore etc for the universe.  But... then we have reprint issues, is it okay to reprint what's in a book?  Or do we necro a villain group like I had to for Island of Dr Destroyer?

[Stanley Teriaca]

 

 

10 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 But... then we have reprint issues, is it okay to reprint what's in a book?  Or do we necro a villain group like I had to for Island of Dr Destroyer?

Humm...that would be up to the group.

 

If we are allowed to use 6ed villains, we might be forbidden from reprinting there stats. We have to check with the boss first.

 

But for villains from 6ed we could use...

Oger

Pulsar

Laser

 

Those are the three which come to mind.

[Stanley Teriaca]

Speaking of past edition villains, which ones would you add to this? Which 6ed villains would you add to it?

[Steve]

I vote for Howler and Oculus as an odd couple of supervillains working together on a bank robbery. Their origins could even work together.

[Lord Liaden]

As far as adventures go, I believe those which appeared in Digital Hero would all be usable with Hero Games' permission. I'm pretty certain it was stipulated that anything which was published in DH belongs to Hero Games. Technically that would be the property of whoever owns Champions Online now, but nobody on the MMO side appears to pay any attention to what's happening in PnP any more. Almost all of them include full write-ups for NPCs, artwork, and maps. They'd only need game stats updated from 5E to 6E.

 

Several of those adventures were written as convention-style games to introduce new players to Hero, so setup and power level would make any of them appropriate to include with the book being discussed here. My own suggestion would be "Unearthed Mechana" from DH #12. That would be a way to introduce Mechanon and its robotic forces as the "big bad" of a campaign, just as it was included in most past editions of the Champions core book.

Edited April 19 by Lord Liaden

[Lord Liaden]

On 4/17/2024 at 4:58 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

I am inclined toward using Dr Destroyer just because he's the premier villain in Champions and was the subject of the first ever Champions adventure.  But he's so catastrophically powerful its ridiculous to even consider putting a hero team against him.  I'll give it some thought.

 

 

Book Of The Destroyer includes alternate power level character sheets for the Doctor, as well for models of his armor from his earliest days to the present, mirroring the evolution of the character from his first appearance in The Island of Dr. Destroyer to his most recent 6E version. One of those could be used as the basis for the debut of the character in whatever venue you choose, and can thus be "aged" for subsequent adventure encounters.

 

Pursuant to my suggestion of Mechanon above, Book Of The Machine treats that character the same way.

 

1 hour ago, Stanley Teriaca said:

Speaking of past edition villains, which ones would you add to this? Which 6ed villains would you add to it?

 

For any villains in this Champions Rises book, I'd take a cue from the core books from past editions, and make the majority of them lower power level, suitable as opposition for beginning heroes.

Edited April 19 by Lord Liaden

[Christopher R Taylor]

I do like the Mechanon option, and I was looking at Unearthed Mechana as one of the adventures to use already.  It would be different than Dr Destroyer,  and maybe give the players something that feels both familiar and slightly fresh instead of yet another big tough guy who wants to rule the world.

[Stanley Teriaca]

So what are we truly thinking?

 

Reprinting Digital Hero adventures?

Original adventures?

How many adventures?

Will there be cardboard standies?

Fake wanted posters?

A box set?

[assault]

For the campaigning stuff, I'd have a good look at the original Strike Force.

 

Probably Champions II as well.

[Christopher R Taylor]

There are a lot of good tips in 6th edition Champions, at least partly written by Aaron Allston.

 

I would love to do a box set but I don't know how feasible that is.  A kickstarter is not particularly likely, because it takes someone who is very dedicated with lots of time and energy to focus on it, preferably someone with experience.

 

As for the adventures, I'm not sure.  Does Pathfinder reprint the adventures that an Adventure Path follows, or do you have to buy all the modules it lists?  Is it just a framework that shows how to tie them together into a single story arc or does it have all the data?

Edited April 19 by Christopher R Taylor

[Stanley Teriaca]

8 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

As for the adventures, I'm not sure.  Does Pathfinder reprint the adventures that an Adventure Path follows, or do you have to buy all the modules it lists?  Is it just a framework that shows how to tie them together into a single story arc or does it have all the data?

I don't know. I don't own nor play Pathfinder. But why are we trying to mimic Pathfinder? We are the Hero System. We are Champions. We are not Pathfinder.

[Stanley Teriaca]

I do think new adventures would be best. Maybe even new villains.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

But why are we trying to mimic Pathfinder? We are the Hero System. We are Champions. We are not Pathfinder.

 

Well its a very successful system so I would like to take as many ideas that worked for them and make them work for us.  Plus, playing into expectations of players is valuable, it makes them more comfortable with what you present.