BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 As with many others, I'm very saddened by the weak showing of the Star Hero line. Probably it just isn't a very good time in general for sci-fi games, with the Lord of the Rings movies exciting people over the fantasy genre. In particuar, I'm sorry to see Scourges Of The Galaxy dropped from the publication list. I had been hoping to lean on that book heaviliy for opponent ideas in my eventual SH campaign; its absence will make my work that much more difficult (possibly difficult enough to scuttle any further work on it -- but we shall see). Hopefully it'll show up early in the 2005 schedule. I'm also disappointed (albeit a little less so) in the dropping of Galactic Federation -- I have all sorts of suggestions and ideas that I think could make it seem a very fun and cool book (most of them could probably still work for Galactic Champions; Darren, if you're interested in what I have to say on the matter, please feel free to email me, PM me, or sound me out here). Those of us who play SH... what could we do to boost interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I know this is probably unrealistic, but write novels using the TE setting. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 In the Monday chat Darren stated he thought Galactic Federation might make it into the 2005 schedule. Some of the GF material will be added to Galactic Champions. He also said that Worlds Of Empire might become more generic, I assume to capture a wider fanbase. Personally I would rather see them publish within their continuity and let the fans add or subtract whatever they need to make the product more generic. I am hoping if DOJ is only going to publish one SF book a year that they make it a large book. I would prefer to see a 250-300 page book published over another 160-200 page book. As much as I have enjoyed Terran Empire there is just so much information left for the GM to create that it is almost too much work to make a proper campaign. I would much rather see books which deemphasize the "crunch" factor of the game (meaning less information on package deals and vehicles/equipment) and give us more "cream." As fans I do not think there is a lot we can do broaden the appeal of TE or AW. My personal opinion is that gamers are growing older and have less free time, and thus they need more support material and less work for them to do themselves. None of the Star Hero lines would ever be product supported enough to really appeal to new gamers. There are just far too many other scifi games in the market with broader appeal and better support, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Aroooo I know this is probably unrealistic, but write novels using the TE setting. It would be interesting to see Aaron Allston write a Terran Empire novel or two. He has a degree of fan appeal outside of the Hero community, meaning the noves would not just be limited to a few thousand die-hard fanatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koshka Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I had an Alien Wars scenario on my "write for the con season" list, and for what it's worth I'll still try to get it done. Perhaps if more people see that Hero System can be used to play something besides Champions, we can get more interest in the non-superhero books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 This stinks. I got back into HERO after about a 7 year hiatus from gaming in general only because I heard there was a 5th edition and Star Hero was big news at that time. I was also dying to start a campaign based on Andromeda, which was getting really good. But as others have pointed out; most gamers get older and at 29, I had little free time. It took me a long time to find players and with money being really tight, it was incredibly tough buying new books. My players wanted to play Champions, so that's what I focused on. Perhaps I should buy up the supplements to my favorite subgenre now, before they stop the line altogether? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Syberdwarf2 Perhaps I should buy up the supplements to my favorite subgenre now, before they stop the line altogether? My guess is that they will probably not be reprinted unless a huge upswing is made at some point in the future. So if you are wanting them you should buy them while they are avialable. Don't wait until they run out like with the Resource Kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Koshka I had an Alien Wars scenario on my "write for the con season" list, and for what it's worth I'll still try to get it done. Perhaps if more people see that Hero System can be used to play something besides Champions, we can get more interest in the non-superhero books? I think this is an excellent idea. I'll see if I can't get something quick pulled together for Game Storm or something myself. (Though for me to do a "short" scenario is quite a stretch. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tclynch Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Well, I'm pretty happy 'bout it. Hopefully that will move up Pulp Hero and allow for more Champions and Fantasy Hero books to come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Tclynch Well, I'm pretty happy 'bout it. Hopefully that will move up Pulp Hero and allow for more Champions and Fantasy Hero books to come out. It will do the latter, but probably not the former. GenCon Indy is the best place to release the "big" books, and this year's entry is going to be Dark Champions -- Steve's been talking about Pulp Hero for next year's GenCon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Tclynch Well, I'm pretty happy 'bout it. Hopefully that will move up Pulp Hero and allow for more Champions and Fantasy Hero books to come out. I think that Pulp Hero is going to be an even larger flop than the Star Hero line. Scifi has a much broader appeal to gamers than pulp material (most gamers today do not even know what pulp is). I think the Pulp Hero genre book will sell well in the same way that Star Hero sold well, but I don't think an actual sub-genre book or line will do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Monolith I think that Pulp Hero is going to be an even larger flop than the Star Hero line. Scifi has a much broader appeal to gamers than pulp material (most gamers today do not even know what pulp is). I think the Pulp Hero genre book will sell well in the same way that Star Hero sold well, but I don't think an actual sub-genre book or line will do well. I'm voting with Monolith on this one. Pulp seems to be very popular amongst a very few people. I don't know that it has broad support enough to do more than sell tons of the campaign book. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by misterdeath I'm voting with Monolith on this one. Pulp seems to be very popular amongst a very few people. I don't know that it has broad support enough to do more than sell tons of the campaign book. With this, I'd tend to agree. I'd kick off with the genre book, plus perhaps a single setting book and a period equipment book, and see where things go from there before doing a huge amount with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade With this, I'd tend to agree. I'd kick off with the genre book, plus perhaps a single setting book and a period equipment book, and see where things go from there before doing a huge amount with it. This is how we plan to handle every "Big Summer Book" from here on out. We'll guarantee quick follow-up with a setting or two, support books and enemies, and see where the line stands after we've givenit a few months. Then it either joins the permanent line collection or fades to occasional status, depending on sales. As far as we can see, after Dark Champions there are no "gimme" lines that are obviously-likely successes. Horror, Pulp, Western, Cyber- all potentially could be hits, but could just as easily fall flat. It's our job to keep close eyes on each. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Darren Watts This is how we plan to handle every "Big Summer Book" from here on out. We'll guarantee quick follow-up with a setting or two, support books and enemies, and see where the line stands after we've givenit a few months. Then it either joins the permanent line collection or fades to occasional status, depending on sales. As far as we can see, after Dark Champions there are no "gimme" lines that are obviously-likely successes. Horror, Pulp, Western, Cyber- all potentially could be hits, but could just as easily fall flat. It's our job to keep close eyes on each. dw Hmmmm... That would mean that SH still needs a good enemies book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade Hmmmm... That would mean that SH still needs a good enemies book. Notice please, the "here on out" part of the statement. Acknowledgement. And a Fix. Pretty good. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost who Walks Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade Those of us who play SH... what could we do to boost interest? Find and stalk forums used by people who play Sci-Fi based RPGs. Traveller (in its many variants) and Star wars are the only real competition, and as a game system they can't really compete. About 30% of the game stores I have been to carry HERO stuff, few of them have Star Hero stuff. Get them to carry it. Even if new players are attracted that only use the game system, its still a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Another way to spark some interest is to write some reviews of the 4 Star Hero books and post them to RPG.net and GamingReport.com. I am not a very good writer or I would tackle it myself, but for those who do have the gift getting some reviews out there could be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Monolith Another way to spark some interest is to write some reviews of the 4 Star Hero books and post them to RPG.net and GamingReport.com. I am not a very good writer or I would tackle it myself, but for those who do have the gift getting some reviews out there could be helpful. Tales of the Fearless Coward read pretty well to me -- dont sell yourself short on the writing front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Darren Watts This is how we plan to handle every "Big Summer Book" from here on out. We'll guarantee quick follow-up with a setting or two, support books and enemies, and see where the line stands after we've givenit a few months. Then it either joins the permanent line collection or fades to occasional status, depending on sales. As far as we can see, after Dark Champions there are no "gimme" lines that are obviously-likely successes. Horror, Pulp, Western, Cyber- all potentially could be hits, but could just as easily fall flat. It's our job to keep close eyes on each. dw How about just plain Modern HERO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Narrowing The Field I think monolith is correct when he suggests that Hero is trying to do too many things. I also think its a mistake to throw several products out in the hopes they will be popular without the ability to generate a depth of source materials for all of them (it seems Hero is going for breadth over depth). Whatever the company does put out needs to be well supported - yes you can do it yourself in Hero - but the truth is: the average non-hero gamer, and that's who needs to be attracted, doesn't approach the market that way. The way I see it there are two essential (marketable) niches for space products, which means Hero (IMHO) should tailor their planned worlds to match it (as opposed to sticking dogmatically to the meta-setting, even when the market won't support the breadth of it (another reason I'm not enamoured of the meta-setting)): Low concept: meaning "hard science" High concept: meaning "space opera" I think Hero could plan, and the market would support, these lines insofar as they were supported with expansion materials, which could include some of the intended materials from the initially conceived breadth. DOJ is doing a wonderful job, but I also think they are trying to do too much. A few well supported settings will do more than a bunch of unsupported ones. Just my two active points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade Hmmmm... That would mean that SH still needs a good enemies book. I second that. Neither my Champions campaign or my Fantasy Hero Campaigns would be as robust without CKC & MM&M. I know this book was once (and may still be) on the production schedule and if you are planning on producing only one book I believe it should be the Star HERO Enemies book rather than a book of Worlds. I however am not a line editor, publisher or even an HERO office minion. Just my $.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by levi I second that. Neither my Champions campaign or my Fantasy Hero Campaigns would be as robust without CKC & MM&M. I know this book was once (and may still be) on the production schedule and if you are planning on producing only one book I believe it should be the Star HERO Enemies book rather than a book of Worlds. I however am not a line editor, publisher or even an HERO office minion. Just my $.02... I agree with the principle that the enemies book would be more useful overall than a worlds book, the latter can lay a lot of groundwork for the former. WOE can give a lot of information supporting the NPCs' back histories, and the NPCs in SOTG can give life to the stories in WOE -- including giving us real examples of some of the alien species. (However it works out, I'm hoping to see at least a clear illo of a Se-Lag and a Hrac'darese.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Tales of the Fearless Coward read pretty well to me -- dont sell yourself short on the writing front. I appreciate the kind words, but what takes me a week to write most other people can do in a day. Each word is a struggle to pull from my wrinkled brow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade I agree with the principle that the enemies book would be more useful overall than a worlds book, the latter can lay a lot of groundwork for the former. WOE can give a lot of information supporting the NPCs' back histories, and the NPCs in SOTG can give life to the stories in WOE -- including giving us real examples of some of the alien species. (However it works out, I'm hoping to see at least a clear illo of a Se-Lag and a Hrac'darese.) I personally get more use out of the world books then the enemies books. Coming up with bad-guy motivations has always been simple for me. What might be interesting though is to include a write-up for a "scourge" for each new world presented in the book. That would be almost like the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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