Sketchpad Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Hmm ... why not just make a website devoted to SH Enemies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 We definately need an Enemies book. One of my biggest problems with Champions (and also, one of the FEW problems) is coming up with my own villains. In a time crunch, I need characters either for direct use or as inspiration/tweaking. I can flesh out the worlds. I can build the ships. I can design the weapons. My problem is Enemies. Don't get me wrong... DOJ is doing a bang up job. I love the system and wouldn't want to play any other. But SH is my favorite genre besides champions. I just don't want Hero to be viewed as just "that superhero game" only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 I don't mean any of this as a crack at DoJ or the quality of their products but with the exception of SH I just have not been inspired by the line and I like the genre. If you compare how FH was supported vs how SH was supported we got specific settings for SH. TE, a TE equipment book and AW. FH got a generic magic book and a generic monsters book. I bought Spacers Tool Kit and Alien Wars and will eventually get TE but none of them have really grabbed me, I would have prefered a wider range not tied to a specific setting, a big fat equipment book with a variety of "Klingon looking" melee weapons, light swords, slug throwers, blasters, slow scow type ships, air rafts, star destroyers etc and a big book of funny looking critters, unsavory space pirates and chisel jawed Star Rangers. I'm sorry to see SH is not doing well and will be scaled back but I'm not suprised, I hope DoJ will refrain from the specific stuff, HERO's strength has always been the rules not the settings, I have played HERO from the begining and have yet to use a HERO made setting, I found most to be somewhat bland. This does not mean I think that DoJ should not produce their own settings but to me its putting the cart before the horse, they should be emphasizing HERO's ability to use any systems settings, not trying to get players with company settings, most players have an idea of the kind of world they want to play in. Once the players base has been converted then start dabbling in the HERO universe settings. Just my opinion, and heck my amphibian brain is nothing more than a bump on the end of a spinal cord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowRaptor Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Toadmaster I bought Spacers Tool Kit, I would have prefered a wider range not tied to a specific setting, a big fat equipment book with a variety of "Klingon looking" melee weapons, light swords, slug throwers, blasters, slow scow type ships, air rafts, star destroyers etc and a big book of funny looking critters, unsavory space pirates and chisel jawed Star Rangers. I'm sorry to see SH is not doing well and will be scaled back but I'm not suprised, I hope DoJ will refrain from the specific stuff, HERO's strength has always been the rules not the settings, I have played HERO from the begining and have yet to use a HERO made setting, I found most to be somewhat bland. This does not mean I think that DoJ should not produce their own settings but to me its putting the cart before the horse, they should be emphasizing HERO's ability to use any systems settings, not trying to get players with company settings, most players have an idea of the kind of world they want to play in. Once the players base has been converted then start dabbling in the HERO universe settings. Just my opinion, and heck my amphibian brain is nothing more than a bump on the end of a spinal cord. Hello to everybody, I'm finally back to having internet access and will be stepping in more often than previously. I agree with this. I would have much preferred a equipment book with just weapons, armors, cybernetics, generic items, and left out all the spaceships and vehicles for a different book, or made the spacer's toolkit a much larger book. As it stands, I will only be using the first chapter of that book. TE as a setting, to me, is very uninspiring. I bought it and I like it, for the equipment primarily. The setting itself is kind of bland to me. It doesn't spark my imagination like Star Wars does (okay, I like space opera a lot more and TE isn't that space operatish to me). As for this book of worlds...why not just combine the book of worlds and the book of enemies into one large, 300 page book and charge us 30.00 for it. Design the worlds, create some enemies that could be found on those worlds, create some creatures that inhabit those worlds, perhaps some new equipment that is originally from those worlds...and give us a really kick butt book that really gives us our money's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Well, one reason that they would not combine the two books is that that approach would not save Hero much in the way of resources. It would take just as much writing, editing, developing, and artwork to produce the book. There might be a small saving on printing (I think one large book might be slilghtly cheaper to print than two smaller ones) and there would be a small saving on artwork as only one cover would need be to commissioned. But all in all, I don't think it would amount to enough of a savings to justify doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by ShadowRaptor ...Design the worlds,those worlds, create some creatures that inhabit those worlds, perhaps some new equipment that is originally from those worlds... [/shameless plug mode on] You could put "Mathias Aromak" from DH #10 into such a book... [/shameless plug mode off] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 ShadowRaptor's idea could be useful, I think, if not taken quite to that extreme. One of the charms of MMM was that many of its humanoid "monsters" also included descriptions of specific individuals in some of its species templates. If WOE were to include a sample citizen from each of its worlds, we'd at least have the start of a good set of Enemies. The book could also tide us over in other ways, presenting an occasional animal, some native weapons or other gadgets, and maybe a Martial Art style or three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrunnicles Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Well, I'm disappointed by the prospect of falling support for SH; I have all the books so far and was also looking forward to SOTG and the Planet book - personally I think SOTG should be ahead on the schedule, after all the biggest 'slowdown' factor for me is generating characters, for planets I can always use one of the old GURPS Space Atlases. Which brings me to another point; oddly enough SF actually seems to be a big seller for GURPS, you've got Traveller, Transhuman Space which both have expanding lines, and a lot of the other books have an SF focus - any idea why GURPS should be doing so much better with the genre? Is it because Hero is still so closely linked to Champions while GURPS was Generic from the get go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by bobrunnicles Which brings me to another point; oddly enough SF actually seems to be a big seller for GURPS, you've got Traveller, Transhuman Space which both have expanding lines, and a lot of the other books have an SF focus - any idea why GURPS should be doing so much better with the genre? Is it because Hero is still so closely linked to Champions while GURPS was Generic from the get go? I think that's part of it. Hero has a long history of being a supers game. Its taking time to get the word out to the player community - esp. those who don't have internet access. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by Aroooo I think that's part of it. Hero has a long history of being a supers game. Its taking time to get the word out to the player community - esp. those who don't have internet access. Aroooo If I recall correctly, the last Star Hero was a pre-4th ed. product (wasn't it?), so we may also be suffering from not have had much Sci-fi coverage in >12 years. On the other hand, Champs and FH saw big support during 4th ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrunnicles Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by Intrope If I recall correctly, the last Star Hero was a pre-4th ed. product (wasn't it?), so we may also be suffering from not have had much Sci-fi coverage in >12 years. On the other hand, Champs and FH saw big support during 4th ed. Really? I thought FH only got the core book and the two companions for 4th Ed. What did I miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by bobrunnicles Really? I thought FH only got the core book and the two companions for 4th Ed. What did I miss? Hmm...I would have sworn that their were more than 3 FH 4th books, but I can't recall any titles. Maybe I'm just losing it. One day, I'll actually get my HERO 4th collection back... OTOH, I can only think of one Sci-fi Hero 4th product: Cyber Hero (Huzzah.) Maybe I'm wrong, and 4th didn't have much better support for FH than for SH. Does anyone know of any list of all older HERO products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrunnicles Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 4th Ed we got Ninja Hero, Cyber Hero, Horror Hero, Western Hero & Fantasy Hero plus the two companions. Oh, and there were the Almanacs (two of them?) that had info for all systems. Everything else was Champions. I have a link on my PC at work to a site with all the books listed, if no-one else posts one before Monday I'll add it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 There were conversions for Hero in some of the ICE products. Shadow Worlds? There were also a Egypt & Greek books which were multipurpose with Rolemaster. Derek did a lot of work on this list of all the official hero books. probably what bob was talking about. Yes, there were quite a few Rolemaster/FH books during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by lemming There were conversions for Hero in some of the ICE products. Shadow Worlds? There were also a Egypt & Greek books which were multipurpose with Rolemaster. Ah! I wasn't out of my head after all...during 4th's era, we had 3 FH books and all the Rolemaster/FH products. I'd say that's a bit better support than Cyber HERO and Bright Future. In any case, I hope Star Hero does pick up in the new era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrunnicles Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Yeah, I'd forgotten about all the crossover books - I even have all the Shadow World stuff on the shelf. Guess I always thought of it as more of a Rolemaster product with Hero stats than a Hero book. And yes, that's the link I was referring to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcholmes Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Re: Waaaaahhhh! Originally posted by BobGreenwade Those of us who play SH... what could we do to boost interest? I still think that Star Hero needs a good setting (campaign book). I think that Terran Empire is weak -- it doesn't stand out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawangaKid Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Aroooo I know this is probably unrealistic, but write novels using the TE setting. Aroooo I sort of agree... I was just pimping RPGs at a local SF/Fantasy convention (the 2nd Annual Philippines SF/Fantasy convention, just to give you an idea how slow we are to organize), and the stuff that sells are the settings with stories set in them. We sold Ravenloft & Dragonlance stuff, and woulda sold some WoD, L5R and FR stuff if we had it in stock. Stories tied to the setting can help. But publishing novels may be too much for the current config of DoJ's plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Re: Re: Waaaaahhhh! Originally posted by bcholmes I still think that Star Hero needs a good setting (campaign book). I think that Terran Empire is weak -- it doesn't stand out for me. I've been thinking as I read all of these posts, what is it about Star Hero that makes it less attractive than the other books? Some have suggested the Champions link. I have to say, that doesn't sound like a strong argument to me. The gap in coverage between 4th edition and 5th edition (Cybergames not-withstanding) has effectively erased the name Hero from the collective mind set. When 5th came out a year or so ago it was like starting over from scratch. In many ways this is true - given the top to bottom rewrite of everything. On the plus side the game is now much better than it ever was before thanks to superb writing by Steve Long and others. I've bought every book that they have put out. Why? I love the game system and I like to read the different books for ideas. That said, I think the opinion that Terran Empire's story is a little weak is perhaps valid. The history at the beginning of Terran Empire is a bit dry. I haven't bought Alien Wars yet but most certainly will do so when I purchase the UNTIL book. I am currently running and greatly enjoying a Fantasy Hero campaign. I've been working on a Star Hero campaign (post-apocalyptic) but I don't expect that to get off the ground until late summer. If you (i.e. anyone reading this) don't have Star Hero, why not? What got you to get into Hero in the first place and what books did you bother to buy and why? I don't expect people to be as fanatical as I am and just simply buy everything, however it would be interesting to hear from people what they found interesting and what inspired the in the Hero series of books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Corps - I have Star Hero, but none of the setting books. I am running a space game (a solo game for my wife), but I'm not using Hero. Here's why: 1) mechanics versus story ratio (for her) 2) DP9 produces a setting AND system I enjoy 3) the star hero settings don't do anything for me 4) I hate hero's vehicle system. It sucks like mega-maid IMHO. 5) I loathe the meta-setting. It can be ignored, but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by bobrunnicles Which brings me to another point; oddly enough SF actually seems to be a big seller for GURPS, you've got Traveller, Transhuman Space which both have expanding lines, and a lot of the other books have an SF focus - any idea why GURPS should be doing so much better with the genre? Is it because Hero is still so closely linked to Champions while GURPS was Generic from the get go? First off, SJG is slightly up the game company food chain from Hero Games, with a bit larger fanbase and resources. Secondly, Traveller is a very well-known brand (at least among gamers), and THS has been getting excellent reviews, and is a fairly unique setting. The Star HERO line, however, doesn't have the same clout or recognition. Granted, a grassroots campaign to post reviews of the products in the line might help a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 While I have to say I am a bit disappointed, I'm not surprised. I love SpaceOpera and will someday run a SH game. But I can see where is isn't a big line. One of the big things that make a Space game good, are the ships. I know many people who are put off by Hero's vehicle system. I think it is because they want the ship/equipment rules to be separate from the character rules. My problem is if I see stats on a ship I want a deck plan. which is why it will be a bit before I run my SO game. Free time to do deck plans is scarce. I think that there are just too many scifi games on the market for hero to compete without expendng major resources. And right now they are doing the right thing by sticking with the items selling well now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawangaKid Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Strong Temptation I am strongly tempted to call for a series of fan sites to flesh out and support Terran Empire... with plot lines and weapons, equipment and ships and the like. But then, that'd mean I'd have to do it first and I'm lacking the time. It's actually somewhat cool that we got all these HEROphiles offering advice. Must be some kinda brand loyalty hehe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Re: Strong Temptation Originally posted by KawangaKid I am strongly tempted to call for a series of fan sites to flesh out and support Terran Empire... with plot lines and weapons, equipment and ships and the like. We already have the Online Spacer's Toolkit for submitting various types of equipment. Everyone interested should feel free to submit material to Ben for posting to the website. One of my suggestions to Darren several months ago was to have the fans submit world material. Each fan would make a 750-1,500 word (1-2 published pages) write-up detailing a world/culture within the galaxy. The write-ups would be published in Digital Hero and then eventually make it in a "Spacer's Almanac." The same type of things could be done for organizations, plot threads, and other types of AW/TE/GF material of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrunnicles Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Von D-Man Corps - I have Star Hero, but none of the setting books. I am running a space game (a solo game for my wife), but I'm not using Hero. Here's why: 1) mechanics versus story ratio (for her) 2) DP9 produces a setting AND system I enjoy 3) the star hero settings don't do anything for me 4) I hate hero's vehicle system. It sucks like mega-maid IMHO. 5) I loathe the meta-setting. It can be ignored, but still... Just out of interest, which DP9 system are you using? Heavy Gear? Tribe 8? Or I guess since you refer to a space game it might be Jovian Chronicles? I have a bunch of T8 and HG but no JC, is it any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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