Fedifensor Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Actually, while I like the JLA a lot better, I'd have to give the victory to the Authority. Put simply, while the JLA stops to talk things out, the Authority lets loose with everything they have. If the Authority is in a particularly bad mood, nearly half the JLA is *DEAD* before they can respond. The Authority has a lot of killing attacks, and isn't hesitant about using them. Let's keep in mind some of the world-shaking abilities the Authority has. The Doctor shredded half of a metahuman assault force with one spell (a force numbering in the hundreds, BTW) and put an entire nation into orbit. The Midnighter actually falls into the speedster category - the Flash may be faster, but the Midnighter knows how the entire battle will play out before it even starts. Apollo is the Authority's version of Superman...unless you're talking about pre-Crisis Supes, it's an even fight. No one in the JLA comes close to the Engineer's VPP, not even Batman and his mega utility belt. I'd go on, but I'd need to dig out my comics to say more - it's been a while since I've read them. Now, if the JLA wasn't constrained by morals, and just let loose with everything they had, the fight may go to them. But you can't evaluate the teams without considering their personalities as well as their powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Well, actually... Even if we spot the Authority a free attack, the Authority cuts loose with every attack it has, and... ... at least half the JLA is still standing. They've got some of the most outrageous damage soaks there is. (Yes, even the turnip spell -- J'onn and Diana, at least, are withstanding that one. And maybe Green Lantern, if he has the ring defenses up. And nobody can predict what Flash's extra-dimensional 'Speed Force Aura' is going to or not going to stop this week...) And Superman can single-handedly take out the entire Authority lineup if he's feeling particularly pissed. Not to mention that "the JLA stands still like target dummies" is not a valid assumption. If they're assaulting the Authority cold, they will not attack without doing at least a moment's worth of recon -- Batman, if nobody else, /loathes/ going in blind. That means J'onn at least does a scan, the results of which will be...? And if the JLA /does/ know what their opponents are... they're gonna get blitzed like the Pop Warner league playing Green Bay. Edit -- as for "nobody can match the Engineer's VPP"? Kyle can damn near match the Doctor's VPP... that ring is the most powerful weapon in the DC universe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Fedifensor Actually, while I like the JLA a lot better, I'd have to give the victory to the Authority. Put simply, while the JLA stops to talk things out, the Authority lets loose with everything they have. If the Authority is in a particularly bad mood, nearly half the JLA is *DEAD* before they can respond. The Authority has a lot of killing attacks, and isn't hesitant about using them. Let's keep in mind some of the world-shaking abilities the Authority has. The Doctor shredded half of a metahuman assault force with one spell (a force numbering in the hundreds, BTW) and put an entire nation into orbit. The Midnighter actually falls into the speedster category - the Flash may be faster, but the Midnighter knows how the entire battle will play out before it even starts. Apollo is the Authority's version of Superman...unless you're talking about pre-Crisis Supes, it's an even fight. No one in the JLA comes close to the Engineer's VPP, not even Batman and his mega utility belt. I'd go on, but I'd need to dig out my comics to say more - it's been a while since I've read them. Now, if the JLA wasn't constrained by morals, and just let loose with everything they had, the fight may go to them. But you can't evaluate the teams without considering their personalities as well as their powers. Bull! Absolute bull! The JLA does NOT stop to talk things out with mass murderers and that's just what the Authority are. What do you think the Authority would be doing when the JLA come upon them, having tea and cookies? NO! They'd be savagely killing people, criminals granted, and calling it heroism. The JLA doesn't put up with that and take them down HARD. The Engineer doesn't have a chance to put her VPP into play because the Flash has knocked her silly. All Midnight can predict about the battle is the fact that the JLA will kick thier asses before twenty minutes is up and that's only if he stays concious enough to recieve the information. The Authority doesn't have any possible surprises to pull on the JLA because J'onn has read thier minds already and informed the League what the opposition is capable of. After maybe ten minutes the Authority is unconcious in preperation of being sent to the Slab and/or execution for thier crimes. Jenny Quantum is the only exception and is sent to be raised by either the Kents or the Garricks. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Actually, if the Doctor throws the turnip spell but Kyle's extending the ring's coverage over the entire JLA, it might very well occur that there are no turnips. Granted, the Batman is useful in a JLA/Authority fight only if there's prep time -- otherwise, there's nobody here his unaugmented fist can seriously damage. (Give him a few weeks to research his opponents, though, and he'll come up with Henry Bendix's old override codes and turn Apollo and the Midnighter off with a remote control... ... yes, Bendix /did/ gimmick their cybernetics that way. Midnighter got the crap kicked out of him when Team Achilles used the same trick, and I don't think the Engineer's bothered to debug them yet... not that she'd have certain odds of doing so even if she did try, given that it's 50-50 odds that Midnighter's combat computer was built by Randall Dowling, aka 'Angie's never getting this good on the best day of her life'.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAlpha Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 JLA vs Authority Okay lets assume this is done in one of those cool graphic novel/trade paperback formats. Kurt Buisek and Bendis are writting. Artwork is being done by Adam Hughes and George Perez. The JlA and Authority match up in the classic method, going for their opposites. Batman vs. Midnighter: Midnight can't find The Bat. Batman meanwhile observes the Authority for several pages (continued later).... Green Lantern vs. Engineer: Engineer does some cool stuff. Kyle responds by making himself into a green Voltron. They banter. Kyle flirts with Engineer. They sleep together. Donna Troy gets pissed off and knocks Engineer unconscious... Batman vs. Midnighter: Still looking for Batman. Batman keeps watching. Martian Manhunter vs. The Doctor: The Doctor does mean and nasty things to the Martian Manhubter. Until we realize that the Manhunter has used his power of (insert weird martian sounding word) to make the Doctor think he had won. He then punches the Doctor from behind. Batman vs. Midnighter: more of the same. Superman vs. Apollo: Appolo beats Superman all over the place...but makes a mistake and take the fight to the moon. Supes smiles, pushes his "I must win Button" and knocks Apollo's lights out. Batman vs the rest of Authority: Batman has it figured out.. tells the Flash to grab Hawksmoor and leave him in a field in Iowa. Orders Robin to do backflips near Midnighter (who is distracted long enough for Batman to use his pocket EMP Pulse generatot/Garage Door Opener to shut down Midnighter cybernetics). He has Wonder Woman lasso Swift and order her to give up. Next the Batman explains to Jenny Sparks (we'll assume this is the better version of Authority) how stupid this all is and they both agree. Winners: The JLA because they ROCK. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Re: JLA vs Authority Originally posted by ParagonAlpha Okay lets assume this is done in one of those cool graphic novel/trade paperback formats. Kurt Buisek and Bendis are writting. Artwork is being done by Adam Hughes and George Perez. The JlA and Authority match up in the classic method, going for their opposites. Batman vs. Midnighter: Midnight can't find The Bat. Batman meanwhile observes the Authority for several pages (continued later).... Green Lantern vs. Engineer: Engineer does some cool stuff. Kyle responds by making himself into a green Voltron. They banter. Kyle flirts with Engineer. They sleep together. Donna Troy gets pissed off and knocks Engineer unconscious... Batman vs. Midnighter: Still looking for Batman. Batman keeps watching. Martian Manhunter vs. The Doctor: The Doctor does mean and nasty things to the Martian Manhubter. Until we realize that the Manhunter has used his power of (insert weird martian sounding word) to make the Doctor think he had won. He then punches the Doctor from behind. Batman vs. Midnighter: more of the same. Superman vs. Apollo: Appolo beats Superman all over the place...but makes a mistake and take the fight to the moon. Supes smiles, pushes his "I must win Button" and knocks Apollo's lights out. Batman vs the rest of Authority: Batman has it figured out.. tells the Flash to grab Hawksmoor and leave him in a field in Iowa. Orders Robin to do backflips near Midnighter (who is distracted long enough for Batman to use his pocket EMP Pulse generatot/Garage Door Opener to shut down Midnighter cybernetics). He has Wonder Woman lasso Swift and order her to give up. Next the Batman explains to Jenny Sparks (we'll assume this is the better version of Authority) how stupid this all is and they both agree. Winners: The JLA because they ROCK. Peace Sounds good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Champsguy For all Aquaman's talk about superhuman durability (from surviving that undersea pressure and all), he still got his hand chewed off by piranhas. That means his skin has certain limits as to how tough it is. I remember reading that story and thinking how stupid it was. It'd be one thing if they were hideously mutated cyber-piranhas, but normal ones shouldn't have had a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Jon I remember reading that story and thinking how stupid it was. It'd be one thing if they were hideously mutated cyber-piranhas, but normal ones shouldn't have had a chance. What if it was a cookie-cutter shark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I never liked the "piranha eats Aquaman's hand off" and only let it slide because it was a Peter David story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 I was at my local comic shop today, and happened to pick up an Authority comic. Boy, did that make my day. They got slapped around like the punks they are. The Midnighter, with his "amazingly enhanced reflexes" got blasted unconscious by a fat chick with sonic powers. For all that smack talk, a mere energy blast takes him down? Jack Hawksmoor gets blown in half by an explosion (one that leaves most of the room intact, by the way). That doesn't bode well for his defenses once I bother to write him up. The Engineer, for all her vast skills and huge VPP, apparently doesn't know enough to shield herself vs sonic attacks, and can't think of anything better than to use machine gun hands as her primary attack. She also gets knocked unconscious. The entire team got slapped around like cheap hookers. Only Apollo displayed any level of durability at all, getting punched around the world and not dying. They were fighting a super-powered reverend, who states that Apollo has the strength of 100, possibly 200 men. Gee whiz, he's creeping into Venom-class strength. The Doctor had already been mind-controlled by this evil televangelist, showing that his Ego is somewhere in the range of 8 to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 These threads are alot of fun. But is there anyway to actually settle them objectively? Even if we had stats they'd have to be ones everyone could agree on and that would happen about 10 minutes after Satan ice skated to work. The conditions of the battle would have to be agreed on as well. It really depends on who's hype you want to beleive. IN one issue a character is all but invulnerable, in another they're taken out by a punk with a blaster pistol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 strictly speaking the reverend in question could draw power from all his converts and that was several million at that point. and as for the sonic powered diva she did destroy a sizable chunk of salt lake city with a single verse of the osmonds admittedly the osmonds are fairly appocalyptic at normal level but not a feat to be sniffed at. plus getting slapped around like cheap hookers when you first meet the bad guy is a genre convention it always happens even to superman he gets punched through a building or what have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Besides,I wouldn't listen to anything that hypocritical homophobe had to say anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Champsguy -- sheesh, sounds like even Millar's starting to hate the Authority. I remember when the Midnighter could crash an F-16 through the hull of the Carrier and stay conscious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoble Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Reality Storm: Authority? I find these matchup discussions interesting, although I notice a distinct bias against the Authority - which is cool, everyone has their own tastes. Being knee-deep in Authority characters (we're focusing on the Ellis run for the first sourcebook), I've been thinking about them a lot recently, and am surprised how many people see them as "low powered." In this particular thread, we have the JLA - Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Martian Manhunter, the Flash ... and let's say Aquaman and even Plastic Man for good measure. Unquestionably a damn powerful team. Yet Superman is often (poorly) written to be taken down easily by kryptonite. Sure, Batman in _Dark Knight Returns_ is the ultimate badass, but he's still not Superman. There's nothing stopping the Doctor from turning the world into kryptonite (or, for that matter, 'eating the sun,' as the renegade Doctor threatened to do in the Millar issues). Flash - sure, he's unbelievably amazing. But his Rogue's Gallery isn't *that* frightening (most of the time). If Captain Cold and Boomerang can occasionally threaten him, I surely think the Authority could give him a match. Martian Manhunter? Apollo *is* fire, in a lot of ways. Same holds true for the others. I'm not saying the Authority would win, by any degree - and of late the comic has been written most inconsistently - but as several have said, so much depends on the writers and set-up. In a lot of ways, Apollo is Superman, Midnigther is Batman, etc. We think the Authority are pretty neat -- and the Ellis/Hitch era rocks on toast. But you'll certainly be able to take our interpreations of them, add Reality Storm conversions, shake them up well, and turn 'em loose against Champions characters. cheers, JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allandrel Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 I brought this up with some friends, and the only one who has read the Authority besides me fell back on the old "the JLA will be trying to subdue the Authority, the Authority will be trying to kill the JLA, the Authority has the edge" trope. He still doesn't seem to understand that makes the Authority no different from any of the other villains that the JLA has trounced. Having read quite a bit of the Authority and the JLA, I definitely give the win to the JLA. The Authority can deal out a lot of damage, but aren't so good at soaking it up - look at how often Apollo gets almost killed, and he's one of the toughest members of the team. The JLA, on the other hand, excels at both dishing out and taking damage. Furthermore, they study their opponents, make plans, and operate as a team - something the Authority very rarely bothers to do, usually being confident in their ability to kill anything with one blow. The thing is, half the JLA are so powerful that they could take out the Authority individually. Superman's displays of power dwarf anything that Apollo has done (yes, even post-Crisis Superman). Martian Manhunter one of the most powerful telepaths in any setting, and the Authority has proven weak against telepathy.Whatever speed advantages the Auroity has pale in comparsion to the JLA's speedsters - yes, I know the Midnighter is superhumanly fast, but his speed enhancements are insignificant compared to what the Flash (or even Superman) can do. And the Green Lantern's VPP may be in a similar range to the engineer's but he's much more creative about using it - and he usually uses it to enchance his teammates, rather than fight on his own. And there's the Authority's main weakness. They don't operate as a very good team. The Authority's weaknesses are also much more exploitable, and the JLA excels at exploiting weaknesses - that's what they have Batman for, after all. The Authority have raw power, but the JLA has more, along with smarts and teamwork. Patrick J McGraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 It's a no brainer... the JLA would trounce The Authority, maybe even before they were aware of it. As I've said in previous posts, The Authority don't strike me as a very tough (defense wise) or speedy team and aginst the JLA that's death. Given the phenomenal speed and power advantage that the JLA possess, I belive that most of The Authority would be down and out on segment 12. Superman could trounce Apollo and Midnighter together without even breaking a sweat. Flash would run rings around Swift like she was standing still and before she even realized what was happening. Green Lantern dwarf the Engineer in pure power and imagination...9 pints of liquid metal is no match for the most powerful power ring ever created. Bats could knock Jenny Spark out before she even knew he was there. If it's Jenny Quantum then Plas could keep her distracted by turning into a cool plane or something and keep her entertained while the grown ups take care of business. Martian Manhunter or Diana or Aquaman could all kick the snot out of Hawskmoor, even if he's citified. As for the problematic Doctor, well he's so slow that even the slowest of The JLA could probably wrsp him up before he even realized what was happening. But, more likely, J'onn would just disconnect his mind from Earth's magical field, giving him an instant demotion back to mere junkie. All in all I think it would be one of the JLA's least challenging battles ever. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Actually... Jenny Sparks is an opponent that I believe that even the JLA should fear. She is at /least/ as powerful as Energy Superman was, after all, and has a nasty Desolid form that she can still strike while in.(*) (Yes, the Blink tagged her by surprise once -- not only out of combat, but out on the street in civvies, shoppign. In a fight, Jenny's nowhere near that easy. She crit-failed a PER roll, and that doesn't happen often.) Fortunately, Jenny Sparks isn't in this fight. Jenny Quantum is, and she's much less experienced, or subtle, even if she is more powerful. (*) I mean, the woman only once vaporized an entire invasion fleet with no visible effort, and then went on to electrocute a being the size of an entire planet... and it's still arguable as to whether the strain of that killed her, or if it didn't affect her at all and she merely died a few seconds later because the 20th century had ended on the stroke of midnight Greenwich... and Jenny Sparks was the Spirit of the Twentieth Century, foreordained to be born in its first second, and die in its last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 That, and she's got the equivalent of a *very* nasty NND Does Body Megascale RKA, though its less useful against the JLA than many teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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