Someone has done it: The Captain America Thread

[Gary]

I saw an issue where Cap survived a point blank Nova Blast from the Human Torch. It was when Ultron grabbed Torch. Torch didn't even scratch Ultron's surface, but something non-adamantium inside him melted. Cap was unscratched behind the shield.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Monolith

I have never used the OHOTMU STR stats for anything. The only relevancy they have is just in deciding who is stronger than who. I've seen Sasquatch lift ground oil tankers back into the water. I've seen Sasquatch throw a 747. I've seen Gladiator pick up the Baxter Building. I have seen Ironman and Thor pick up and move Avenger's Mansion. The 100 ton limit on STR caught as many writers for Marvel by surprise as it did fans.

Excellent examples.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by death tribble

I'd make Int at least 18 to get the favourable break on INT/5.

At least. Considering what a tactician he is supposed to be and the ease of which he uses advanced Avengers/Stark/Shield technology he might rate a little higher. The fact that he doesn't keep his head in a book all the time or talk about sines and cosines doesn't mean his raw intellignece is low.

[Chuckg]

Gary -- apparently, as a 0-point special effect, the shield allows Cap to Dive For Cover without actually leaving his current hex... instead of diving away, he dives down behind the shield.

 

/shrugs/ So long as he still has to make the same DEX roll that everybody else does, and follow the other restrictions of Dive For Cover like everybody else does, and it's adjudicated under the special effect rules by the DM, I wouldn't even make him pay for it. Just for what I've already listed.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Gary

I saw an issue where Cap survived a point blank Nova Blast from the Human Torch. It was when Ultron grabbed Torch. Torch didn't even scratch Ultron's surface, but something non-adamantium inside him melted. Cap was unscratched behind the shield.

 

Well, of COURSE... I mean, Johny maybe a rebel, but he's no flagburner!

[Gary]

How about buying a slot of the shield multipower as Desolidification can't pass through objects. The vulnerability to that Desol would be an attack from a direction that the Shield wasn't pointing at.

[Chuckg]

Problem with that is that an Affects Desolid attach bought as 'exotic phase resonance ray' would still hurt Cap through the shield then... and such things don't. Not through the shield.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Champsguy

Cap with 30 stats good. Cap with low stats bad.

 

Another problem with the OHOTMU is that it was inconsistent with prior published works. Even the writers of the book stated that it was inaccurate (apparently an editorial decree from Marvel at the time is responsible).

 

This would be my writeup of Cap's shield:

Missile Deflection, deflect adjacent, + several OCV levels

+3 DCV to represent Cap casually (i.e., not using an action) deflecting attacks

xD6 Energy Blast

40/40 x3 Hardened Force Wall, one hex only, no range, only against Area Effect attacks and other appropriate uses* (-1)

 

*The "other appropriate uses are things that an indestructible shield could theoretically be used for, but don't come up often. I.e., wedging open a closing door, etc.

I don't think +3 DCV is enough.

 

I'll have to dig up my write-up of him. I didn't finish him but I think I got through his stats and powers. His skill list wore me out though.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Rune

Adding to the capabilities of Cap's shield without actually pointing it out, I would add some basic armor (PD/ED) to represent those cases where the baddy actually hits Cap but he gets the shield in the way. The shield takes some, but not all, of the damage. I would also add armor that applies against Explosions, Area Effects and Damage Shields. When Cap uses the shield to punch the Porcupine, he isn't hurt by Porky's damage shield.

Good point about the damage shield. I don't think I built him to cover that point.

[Agent X]

CAPTAIN AMERICA Sample Character

CHARACTERISTICS

30 STR 20 20

30 DEX 60 80

30 CON 40 120

30 BOD 40 160

21 INT 11 171

30 EGO 40 211

30 PRE 20 231

20 COM 10 241

15 PD 09 250

15 ED 09 259

07 SPEED 30 289

13 REC 14 303

60 END 00 303

60 STUN 00 303 TOTAL

 

POWERS

Maximum Human Potential

8 +¼, ½ endurance on strength

17 13â€/26†Running [2]

+½, ½ endurance cost

7 11â€/22†Leaping [1]

7 9â€/18†Swimming [1]

 

Master Combatant

Unbelievably Accurate Attacks

15 +½, armor piercing on strength

You only nicked me!

9 6PD/6ED Armor

-½ only vs. body, -½ always lets 1 body through, applies as last of defenses -0

Combat Reflexes

20 +2 Speed

-1, only to abort to a block after an action in a phase, roll with the blow, or dive for cover, +1, can be used during an active phase.

Master Tactician/Great Leader

50 Find Weakness, all attacks 15 or less

69 +1 ¾ usable simultaneously with 8 others but requires -¼ incantation

Combat Awareness

6 +2 perception with all senses

 

Unflagging Will

15 21 Points of Mental Defense

 

Effects of the Super Soldier Serum

10 10 Points of Power Defense

 

 

 

 

 

POWERS CONTINUED

Equipment

Chain Mesh Uniform

12 8PD/8ED Armor

-½, OIF, Universable, Breakable

-½, Ablative vs. Body

 

Cap’s Shield

-½ OIF, Mostly Universal, Unbreakable

Blocked Attack/Thrown Block

13 +4 DCV Levels

32 Missile Reflection any attack at range, 15 or less

Shielding Cap’s Eyes

7 15 Points Flash Defense: Sight Group

-½, Activation Roll 14 or less, -½ one point of flash always gets through

Grazing Attack

75% Resistant Damage Reduction:

40 Physical

40 Energy

Shield Melee Attack

26 4d6 Hand Attack

+½, zero endurance

+½, armor piercing when used by Cap

-½, mandatory limitation

Thrown Shield

50 10d6 Energy Blast, physical

+½, armor piercing when used by Cap

+¼, ½ endurance

-¼, range based on throwing

 

TALENTS

3 Absolute Range Sense

3 Ambidexterity

3 Bump of Direction

19 Combat Sense 15 or less

3 Double-Jointed

3 Environmental Movement: Water

3 Environmental Movement: Zero-G

3 Environmental Movement: Climbing

3 Environmental Movement: Clutter

3 Environmental Movement: Narrow Surfaces

3 Environmental Movement: Poor Footing

3 +2 Lightning Reflexes

3 Lightsleep

 

PERQUISITES

3 Access to Avengers Mansion

1 Passport

3 Federal Police Powers as an Avenger

7 Security Clearance: U.S. Government

Reputation: THE Hero of America

15 14 or less +5/+5d6 to rolls

bunch of contacts

 

SKILLS

3 Acrobatics

3 Analyze: Martial Arts

3 Analyze: Strength

3 Analyze: Dexterity

3 Analyze: Ranged Attacks

3 Analyze: Defenses

3 Analyze: Focus

3 Analyze: Leadership

3 Breakfall

3 Bugging

3 Climbing

3 Combat Driving

3 Combat Piloting

3 Concealment

3 Contortionist

3 Conversation

10 Cramming, 2 Levels

3 Criminology

1 Familiarity: Cryptography

3 Deduction

8 Defense Maneuver III

3 Demolitions

3 Electronics

3 Fast Draw

3 Scholar

2 Knowledge: Avengers

2 Knowledge: World War II

2 Knowledge: Military History

3 Linguist

2 Chinese

2 French

2 German

2 Italian

2 Japanese

2 Russian

3 Lockpicking

3 Mechanics

3 Navigation

3 Oratory

3 Paramedics

3 Persuasion

3 Power: Shield Skill

3 Professional Artist

3 Riding

3 Security Systems

3 Shadowing

3 Sleight of Hand

3 Stealth

3 Systems Operation

3 Tactics

3 Teamwork

3 Tracking

10 Two-Weapon Fighting

3 Well Traveled

2 Eastern Europe

2 England

2 France

2 Germany

2 Italy

2 Japan

2 London

2 New York City

2 Scotland

2 Switzerland

2 United States of America

2 Wales

2 Washington DC

[pinecone]

I agree that Cap's stats are in comparison to a campains limits though I would probibly just go with all of caps stats being in the near legendary to full legendary range and feel plenty happy....I usually deal with the "But one time Ultron"...etc arguments about the mighty sheild with 4 to 6 dice of Luck...the sheild was just the special effect....without it Cap would still have lived but something else would have happened to save him.....

[Gary]

Geeze. Agent X hasn't given his Cap any martial arts!

[levi]

Here is a reprint of my 350 point Cap from another thread.

 

Captain America

 

Player:

 

Val	Char	Cost
25	STR	15
26	DEX	48
25	CON	30
20	BODY	20
18	INT	8
14	EGO	8
30	PRE	20
20	COM	5
10/18	PD	5
10/18	ED	5
6	SPD	24
10	REC	0
50	END	0
50	STUN	4

9" RUN02" SWIM09" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 192

 

Cost	Power	END
7	Iron Will: Mental Defense (10 points total)
11	Chain Mail Shirt: Armor (8 PD/8 ED) (24 Active Points); Activation Roll 12- (-3/4), OIF (-1/2)
6	Athletic: Running +3" (9" total)	1
9	Athletic: Leaping +4" (9" forward, 4 1/2" upward) (Position Shift)	1
30	Indestructable Shield: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1)
1u	1) Thrown Shield: Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Range Based On Strength (-1/4)	6
1u	2) Shield Bash: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6 (20 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)	2
2u	3) Shield Deflection: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Full Range (+1) (40 Active Points); OAF (-1), Only v. Attacks He Is Aware Of (-1/2)
1u	4) Shield Block: +4 with DCV (20 Active Points); OAF (-1)

Powers Cost: 68

 

Cost	Martial Arts Maneuver
	Martial Combat Expert
4	1) Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 7d6 Strike
5	2) Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 9d6 Strike
3	3) Legsweep: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -1 DCV, 6d6 Strike, Target Falls
4	4) Martial Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 35 STR to Disarm roll
3	5) Joint Lock: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 35 STR for holding on
4	6) Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
1	7) Weapon Element: Shield

Martial Arts Cost: 24

 

Cost	Skill
10	+2 with HTH Combat
12	+4 with Shield
3	Acrobatics 14-
3	Breakfall 14-
3	Oratory 15-
3	Persuasion 15-
3	Stealth 14-
3	Systems Operation 13-
9	Tactics 16-
3	Teamwork 14-
2	KS: Art 11-
2	KS: US History 11-
2	KS: US Military 11-
2	PS: Soldier 11-
2	PS: Artist 11-

Skills Cost: 62

 

Cost	Perk
3	Fringe Benefit: Avengers Citizen

Perks Cost: 3

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 349

 

Val	Disadvantages
10	Psychological Limitation: Sees the World in Black & White (Common, Moderate)
20	Psychological Limitation: Code v. Killing (Common, Total)
15	Reputation: Ultimate Good Guy, 14-
5	Social Limitation: Out of Touch with Modern Society (Occasionally, Minor)
15	Social Limitation: Public ID (Frequently, Major)

Disadvantage Points: 65

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 84

Total Experience Available: 84

Experience Unspent: 0

 

The idea here was to make a Cap that had all of his Iconic abilities without trying to include everything he has done in 50+ years of comics. As well as keeping him within the most common Campaign Guidelines.

[Chuckg]

I really like the idea of giving Cap 3d6 Luck and using that to explain away some of his one-in-a-million feats... simplifies my shield multipower tremendously.

[Allandrel]

Cap does kill enemy combatants when he feels it necessary, so his Code vs. Killing would not be Total.

 

Regarding the shield/knockback issue: Cap doesn't take knockback if he blocks an attack with his shield. It absorbs kinectic energy.

 

Also, Cap can land on his shield after falling from any height and not take damage.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Chuckg]

In "Future Imperfect", when the Maestro slammed the shield while Rick Jones was holding it, Rick /did/ take Knockback... enough to send him across the room and kill him when he landed on something sharp, AAMOF. (Alternate future.)

 

The shield seems to behave differently when Cap holds it then when anybody else holds it.

 

So we need to separate those powers that are innate to the shield, and those things that Cap has that work only when he has the shield... or even when he's not holding the shield.

 

Such as Cap's skill-based Knockback Resistance.

 

(Remember when there was the explosion and Cap and Spidey were the only two heroes in the entire room not knocked off their feet? To quote...

 

Spidey -- "Cap, how did you do that? I stick to things. You..."

 

Cap -- "It's just a matter of knowing how to balance yourself and being quick to react.")

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Chuckg

In "Future Imperfect", when the Maestro slammed the shield while Rick Jones was holding it, Rick /did/ take Knockback... enough to send him across the room and kill him when he landed on something sharp, AAMOF. (Alternate future.)

 

The shield seems to behave differently when Cap holds it then when anybody else holds it.

 

So we need to separate those powers that are innate to the shield, and those things that Cap has that work only when he has the shield... or even when he's not holding the shield.

 

Such as Cap's skill-based Knockback Resistance.

 

(Remember when there was the explosion and Cap and Spidey were the only two heroes in the entire room not knocked off their feet? To quote...

 

Spidey -- "Cap, how did you do that? I stick to things. You..."

 

Cap -- "It's just a matter of knowing how to balance yourself and being quick to react.")

I'll just chalk up the Maestro to bad writing.

[Solomon]

Originally posted by Agent X

The OHOTMU is frighteningly inconsistent with the comic books and that was when it was current. Thor, for example, has demonstrated lifting capacity far in excess of the 100-200 ton range. Captain America has demonstrated the ability to lift more than 800 pounds. Hercules was able to drag Manhattan back into place.

 

Re: Marvel comics and the OHOTMU

 

I think consistency is the key here. Thor has consistently demonstrated lifting capacity far in excess of 100 tons, so I'd easily give him STR far in excess of 60. Hercules, OTOH, dragged Manhattan only once, in a badly written story. I wouldn't give him an higher STR than Thor's.

 

Re: "Superhuman" characteristics in CU

 

I'd rather have my characters' sheets be consistent with other characters' than with a simple chart.

That is, I woudn't care much for the fact that CU lists 30 as the benchmark for "human" scores. That's not a valid reason for giving Caps a straight row of 30's scores, IMHO. Or a straight row of 20s, for what matters.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Solomon

Re: Marvel comics and the OHOTMU

 

I think consistency is the key here. Thor has consistently demonstrated lifting capacity far in excess of 100 tons, so I'd easily give him STR far in excess of 60. Hercules, OTOH, dragged Manhattan only once, in a badly written story. I wouldn't give him an higher STR than Thor's.

 

Re: "Superhuman" characteristics in CU

 

I'd rather have my characters' sheets be consistent with other characters' than with a simple chart.

That is, I woudn't care much for the fact that CU lists 30 as the benchmark for "human" scores. That's not a valid reason for giving Caps a straight row of 30's scores, IMHO. Or a straight row of 20s, for what matters.

I wouldn't give Herc a strength greater than Thor's either. I'd place both of them at 110-115 and I'm not even considering what the Odinpower means.

 

I don't get your point about character's sheet being consistent with other characters. If I'm translating the Marvel Universe Characters over to Champions it helps to have a benchmark. That table is very helpful in this regard. 4 30s in a row on Cap doesn't bother me a bit if I think it adequately describes what he is capable of.

 

I was playing with the benchmarks and other ideas in the Champions Genre Book when I started building Cap. Maybe some day I'll finish him up.

[Metaphysician]

Well, if you were essentially redesigning Cap from the ground up for a Champions campaign, giving him 30s in at least some physical scores wouldn't be inappropriate ( *not* Body, IMHO ). However, if you are trying to convert the actually comic Cap, I just don't think most of his physical scores are that high.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Metaphysician

Well, if you were essentially redesigning Cap from the ground up for a Champions campaign, giving him 30s in at least some physical scores wouldn't be inappropriate ( *not* Body, IMHO ). However, if you are trying to convert the actually comic Cap, I just don't think most of his physical scores are that high.

Based on what? Your own benchmarks. I've had long conversations with a guy called the Superskrull and we've come to a consensus on many points. One of the things we've realized is Cap is so darn max human he might as well be called superhuman. Frankly, he is considering the issue of endurance.

 

On Body, I know a lot of people worry about that because of the way Champions characters are usually built but I have the freedom to ignore that in building a new universe. Frankly, I don't think the characters were built with bodies in the range of 10-20 because Body was horribly imbalancing. I think a lot of characters are built that way because buying up body is generally an inefficient way to spend points for maximum effect in a game where it's hard to kill people. Let me ask you this, how hard is it to kill Captain America?

 

I think it's pretty hard and if I want to help reflect that with Body that's just reasoning to effect.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Solomon

I think consistency is the key here. Thor has consistently demonstrated lifting capacity far in excess of 100 tons, so I'd easily give him STR far in excess of 60. Hercules, OTOH, dragged Manhattan only once, in a badly written story. I wouldn't give him an higher STR than Thor's.

Also keep in mind that Champions was written with the pre-OHotMU superhero characters in mind. No one would ever consider Thor to have a 60 STR just because the handbook lists him at 100 tons. If Champions had been written after the OHotMU then it is quite possible that the STR chart would have had a different design, possibly with 100 tons being somewhere around the 90-100 range.

 

As far as Hercules pulling Manhattan, George McDonald was often fond of saying if you don't see it done 3 times in a comic book its not really part of the character. It's just writer's artistic license.

 

I did find it interesting that the original handbook did give Hercules a higher STR score than Thor. Judging by that alone I would probably give Hercules a little extra. Unlike Agent X, I do not like to exceed the 100 STR threshold too often, so in my games Thor has a 95 STR and Hercules has a 100.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Monolith

Also keep in mind that Champions was written with the pre-OHotMU superhero characters in mind. No one would ever consider Thor to have a 60 STR just because the handbook lists him at 100 tons. If Champions had been written after the OHotMU then it is quite possible that the STR chart would have had a different design, possibly with 100 tons being somewhere around the 90-100 range.

 

As far as Hercules pulling Manhattan, George McDonald was often fond of saying if you don't see it done 3 times in a comic book its not really part of the character. It's just writer's artistic license.

 

I did find it interesting that the original handbook did give Hercules a higher STR score than Thor. Judging by that alone I would probably give Hercules a little extra. Unlike Agent X, I do not like to exceed the 100 STR threshold too often, so in my games Thor has a 95 STR and Hercules has a 100.

Yeah, I'm a crazy man with strength giving the Hulk a maximum strength of 150! and the Supes I would play with (ignoring much that has happened in the last ten years) about a 125!

[Solomon]

My point about consistency with other characters:

 

If I was to write a Caps sheet for the Champions Universe I'd give him a BODY lower than 30. Only four characters have BODY 30 in CU as far as I remember and Caps is not in their league for sheer bodily toughness.

 

I'm not even sure I'd give him DEX 30 either. No character in CU has a DEX higher than 30 and I don't think Cap should be tied for first place, though he shoudn't be far behind.

 

OTOH I'd give him a PRE higher than 30. He's the Flag incarnate, the best soldier and leader ever. A lot of characters in CU have presence 30+ and Caps deserves a better PRE than most of them.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Solomon

My point about consistency with other characters:

 

If I was to write a Caps sheet for the Champions Universe I'd give him a BODY lower than 30. Only four characters have BODY 30 in CU as far as I remember and Caps is not in their league for sheer bodily toughness.

 

I'm not even sure I'd give him DEX 30 either. No character in CU has a DEX higher than 30 and I don't think Cap should be tied for first place, though he shoudn't be far behind.

 

OTOH I'd give him a PRE higher than 30. He's the Flag incarnate, the best soldier and leader ever. A lot of characters in CU have presence 30+ and Caps deserves a better PRE than most of them.

I'm not building Cap to import him into the Champions Universe. He has a much more interesting universe he is already a part of.