nexus Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I like Hero. I don't think its a perfect system or anything like that, but I feel its a damn good one thats stood up to the test of time. So why is there such hate directed at it online? I see it attacked with a frequency that seems to rival d20 hate. People actually go out of their way to slam Hero, sometimes to a truly ludicrous extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 People think it's funny that you can make a rather involved stat block for a towel. I think that's the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almafeta Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 It's funny. I hear the same thing (including the suggestion that 'd20 deserves it but we don't', heh) on the Palladium and the Tri-Stat boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Palladium gets it Rifts, from what I've seen. I've seen alot ot Tri Stat haters, though, but I don't frequent any Tri stat disucssion boards. I never said Hero was the only system that gets this treatment. I just wondered why it did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I've never seen such hatred, but then I only spend any considerable online board-time here. All I've heard negative about Hero from people (who don't know any better) is that it's too "math intensive". D&D you just rolled stats and lived with it originally. Now you've got D20 where you do a small bit of math. But Hero has got no more math than GURPS or V&V. And it's certainly not enough that I'd ever consider it a scary system by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by nexus I've seen alot ot Tri Stat haters, though, but I don't frequent any Tri stat disucssion boards. Why not? If you play, or are even interested in, any of the GoO products, your participation on their message boards would be appreciated. No hater's, though. We are far too civilized to indulge such behaviour. Tea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 My wife gets so miffed that I want to charge her character points for such things as being a gourmet chef. She sometimes asks such things as, "How many points to know how to go to the bathroom?" It's the detail that makes it so great, and the detail that makes it so arcane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Bengal My wife gets so miffed that I want to charge her character points for such things as being a gourmet chef. She sometimes asks such things as, "How many points to know how to go to the bathroom?" It's the detail that makes it so great, and the detail that makes it so arcane. But don't most game systems charge you something for skills? Be it character points, skill slots or something? You can always make that one of the character's Everyman skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I wonder sometimes whether the reputation that HERO players seem to have for being fanatical about the system, and patronizing/scornful toward other games, might have contributed something to a wider resentment toward HERO. I don't think that was ever really the case, but I did notice that during HERO's darkest days, after years had gone by without anything new being published, players of the game often got very defensive when it was called "dead" or out-of-date. That might have something to do with how they're perceived now. Nowadays the HERO gamers that I interact with (personally and on these boards) are among the more relaxed in their attitudes toward other games. I suspect we're all feeling a lot more secure in our HERO-ness than we were a couple of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Looking to the question of "why" I will say that there is certainly a chicken-n-egg issue about whether the more extreme pro-hero (herotistas) or the rabid anti-hero guys created each other... i think the best i can say is they may just sustain each other. IMO one of the reason HERo draws such heat at times is it is one of the paradigm systems. By that i mean, it is the surviving model, one of the more pronounced in fact, of this type of RPG. it is an unremitting point buy to the max everything is points style of RPGs. Sure, some would argue GURPS is but at least from my experience while more people may buy GURPS there are more HERo players than GURPS players, so i count HERo as the top dog there. D&D (old school) is another paradigm game, the biggie among its kind, probably vampire is, and in each case people who find the RPG design paradigm to be flawed speak out, some more drastically than others. Most games are more or less composities, linking some point buy, some narrative, some pick lists, and thus manage to be not as extreme or tight in focus and don't draw as much heat. D20 is actually more or less a hybrid tho it draws a lot of heat for other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 got any links? i wanna read the bashes, for some reason, I can't stop laughing at most I've seen (the too much math makes me crack up all the time, I remember our group ofering to let someoen play a character and when we loaned him the prequisite 14 dice, he had this look of complete dullness come over his face and said "no, that's alright", later as we got back to gaming, and he had left, we made a couple coments like "what he can't count to 84?") PS: I do like reading other bashes, maybe they should jsut create a Database of bashes agaisnt games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I tried to get our little gaming group to try a Hero system game once. One of the guys nearly jumped out of his skin! How dare I suggest such a thing? "Hero? That thing is so damn broken!" When I asked what he meant he said that a friend of his told him that if you spend 100 points on CON, then sell back your END to 0, you get more points than you started with..."It's BROKEN!" he screamed. Then he sat down giving me that "you're so freaking clueless" stare. I didn't even try to discuss it. It was pointless. His mind was made up...from something he heard from someone else, that really didn't make a whole lotta sense. Very frustrating. Needless to say, that group never gave Hero a shot. He's gone now, though, maybe I can sneak it into the current group somehow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Actually,that was a poor example.Sure you save 10 points,but the character has NO END-i.e. has to burn STUN to perform most actions.Base figured stats of ED 12,REC 14 & 45 STUN would be useful,though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Southern Cross Actually,that was a poor example.Sure you save 10 points,but the character has NO END-i.e. has to burn STUN to perform most actions.Base figured stats of ED 12,REC 14 & 45 STUN would be useful,though. Yeah, I know, but I don't think pointing that out would have done anything. It's that whole arguing with a fool theory. It just didn't seem worth it. Maybe if there were even one other person on my side, but the others didn't know the system at all, and their lack of interest was just sigh inducing. *Sigh* Ok, DnD it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by nexus But don't most game systems charge you something for skills? Be it character points, skill slots or something? You can always make that one of the character's Everyman skills. Of course. Everyone should have Going Potty 8-, along with Tie Shoes 8- and Colors 8-. Kindergarten Hero, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by archer Of course. Everyone should have Going Potty 8-, along with Tie Shoes 8- and Colors 8-. Kindergarten Hero, anyone? ROTFL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nHammer Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden I don't think that was ever really the case, but I did notice that during HERO's darkest days, after years had gone by without anything new being published, players of the game often got very defensive when it was called "dead" or out-of-date. That might have something to do with how they're perceived now. Nowadays the HERO gamers that I interact with (personally and on these boards) are among the more relaxed in their attitudes toward other games. I suspect we're all feeling a lot more secure in our HERO-ness than we were a couple of years ago. We're addicts. After so long without some new stuff we were going through withdraws. You tend to get a little wild while going through withdraws. Thanks to Steve, Darren and company for hooking us up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Crisis I tried to get our little gaming group to try a Hero system game once. One of the guys nearly jumped out of his skin! How dare I suggest such a thing? "Hero? That thing is so damn broken!" When I asked what he meant he said that a friend of his told him that if you spend 100 points on CON, then sell back your END to 0, you get more points than you started with..."It's BROKEN!" he screamed. Then he sat down giving me that "you're so freaking clueless" stare. Tell him you get the same effect by just selling your END back to 0. You do not need to buy the additional 90 CON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Some people hate Hero because it has been around a long time and it's "in fashion" to hate things like D&D or Palladium which has been around forever. Other people hate the game because they just don't understand it. Hero is not an easy game to learn, and on average HERO System gamers are just a little smarter than the average and they like the mental challenge the game presents. Some others don't like the game because of the fanbase. I had many arguments with Darrin Kelley on the Hero list before I left it dealing with his statements about how the Hero fans tried to "lynch" him for not wanting to play the game, and other nonsense. And finally there are just people who have played Hero with a bad GM or in a bad campaign and it ruined the system for them. So they take out their angst on anything Hero which comes across the various message boards. There's nothing wrong with not liking a game system. I've played many I don't like. It just seems stupid that so many people go out of their way to tell the world how much they hate something just because they have a cyber shoebox to stand on, no matter what game system they are complaining about. I think it just makes small people feel bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimJesta Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 People always feel the need to pump their system and bash others'. First and foremost Ima gamer. I dont give two hoots which system you play. Youre in my scene. But too many people have to factionalize and attack others peoples choices of what game they play. I usually flip em off and threaten em with a beating for being annoying. That usually gets results. -=Grim=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Whenever you have a field of endeavor or a genre of entertainment, it will develop a rabid following that will inevitably break down into factional subgroups. These subgroups have chosen a particular style which they prefer. It is human nature to defend the familiar against that which demands change/a new way of thinking/an admission that personal preference is arbitrary. Has anyone here ever listened to two artists discuss different styles of art? It gets ugly quick. Or farmers debating International Tractors vs. John Deer Tractors? Or Martial artists debating the merits of their individual styles and how much but you can whuup with theirs alone? Or Country vs. Hip Hop vs. Metal vs. Pop? To someone outside the field, the argument is ridiculous. Does it really matter what company made your tractor as long as the field gets plowed? But whenever I have been around farmers talking shop, opinions have been forcefully stated. If we extend this to our own hobby, it is really pretty ridiculous to debate Hero vs. Palladium vs. D20 vs. Storyteller vs. Tristat, but we do. Heck, I have even run into people who refused to update between different editions of the same game, proclaiming the set of rules they are using to be the "One True Thing". I do defend my preference, but just as a Metal head True Believer will likely never allow themselves to enjoy Bluegrass a true Storyteller aficionado will likely never convert to hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by archer Of course. Everyone should have Going Potty 8-, along with Tie Shoes 8- and Colors 8-. Kindergarten Hero, anyone? Ok, I just wanna say that my Going Potty skill is much better than 8-. I hardly ever miss that roll twice in a row. Now, Tie Shoes OTOH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Crisis Ok, I just wanna say that my Going Potty skill is much better than 8-. I hardly ever miss that roll twice in a row. Now, Tie Shoes OTOH... Ahh, but you only roll if under extraordinary circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almafeta Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Kintara Ahh, but you only roll if under extraordinary circumstances. I don't want to know what are the extraordinary circumstances for Going Potty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalGolem Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Almafeta I don't want to know what are the extraordinary circumstances for Going Potty. Doing 60mph, in an RV with a smaller-than-normal potty, on a very bad Mexican highway, with a driver who's blind in one eye. Yes, this actually happened, but I managed to make the roll by using the Set and Brace combat modifiers. DGv3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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