Metaphysician Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 While reading the UNTIL sourcebook, I noticed mention of a future publication by UNTIL, the book entitled. A book describing tactics for dealing with any number of superhuman threats. Given that the UNTIL Superpowers Database is a published book, any chance that this is an intended future product?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Not through 2005 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Maybe we should just build on the post and make it ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Okay then. Might as well start at the top: What tactics would everybody suggest for dealing with Doctor Destroyer?? Since this is just for fun, go ahead and use tactics based around your own characters and teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 For a 350-point team... Team Brick -- taunt Destroyer, make him blow a Psych Lim, and draw fire. You'll be going unconscious pretty soon, but even a 350-point brick won't take too much BODY. STUN, yes, and lots of it. Team Speedster / MA -- While Destroyer's busy wasting a Phase toasting your brick, you have /got/ to get him off his feet. Martial Throw, Legsweep, whatever it takes, do it. Everybody Else With A Ranged Attack -- Hold your action until Destroyer goes down... then, as soon as he's at 1/2 DCV and 1/2 penalties for Called Shots, everybody make your Teamwork roll, hit him with a called shot to the head with the highest-dice attack you got, and pray to God you do more than 55 STUN total. (That's why you're going for the Head, natch -- x2 STUN, x2 BODY.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg Everybody Else With A Ranged Attack -- Hold your action until Destroyer goes down... then, as soon as he's at 1/2 DCV and 1/2 penalties for Called Shots, everybody make your Teamwork roll, hit him with a called shot to the head with the highest-dice attack you got, and pray to God you do more than 55 STUN total. (That's why you're going for the Head, natch -- x2 STUN, x2 BODY.) If called shots are kosher in your game. Also, I don't think the called shot penalty is halved when you're prone. I could be wrong, but if someone could check book & FAQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician What tactics would everybody suggest for dealing with Doctor Destroyer?? Since this is just for fun, go ahead and use tactics based around your own characters and teams. I think the tactic used against DD is to call in every superhero in a 2,000 mile radius. That's what they had to do in Detroit, before he got tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 > Also, I don't think the called shot penalty is halved when > you're prone. *looks it up* Damn, you're right, it doesn't. I misread this chart. Well in that case, somebody has to Entangle Destroyer... and everybody with a Held Action has to blast him in the head before he can get out of it. (i.e. -- hold your action, and use an Entangle that Destroyer can't escape with Casual STR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I have to admit, I'm astonished this question wasn't asked before. I expected it to appear on the boards within a week of the publication of the USPD. Just goes to show what every GM knows -- Gamerz Iz Unpredictable. We don't have any plans to actually publish a USTRM at this point; it's just a nifty framing device for sidebar comments and such. Among other things, it would be as dull as ditchwater to write, and I'm not willing to be that cruel to Allen. But you never know; at some point maybe we'll take a hankering to the idea and cogitate upon it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 The tactical manual is for field agents, right? Step 1 - contact control and inform them of destroyers presence. Step 2 - change underwear and don fresh uniform. Step 3 - await futher instructions. WARNING: DO NOT ENGAGE /End Tactical Manual Advice I would think an until response would be something like this: 1. Call in UNITY and begin coordinating with local superhero teams, and PRIMUS (if in the US). 2. Coordinate with local military and law enforcement agencies to seal the area and evacuate the population within the threat zone. 3. Hope this doesn't turn into a direct confrontation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Personally, I felt the scenario outlined in the CU that led to the US signing the UNTIL treaty was completely contrived. For instance, which is the quantitatively AND qualitatively better law enforcement agency - Interpol or the FBI? The FBI has more personnel, more resources, more advanced equipment, better training.... Why? Because they are better funded by our one nation than Interpol is funded by the global community (and we pay for ~27% of the total UN budget on an annual basis). Why would the PRIMUS and UNTIL paradigm be any different? Why would the nation with the most experience dealing with supers, the biggest super population, and the biggest budget for dealing with supers (according to the book) find itself without the best mechanism for dealing with them? I would argue that PRIMUS would be better funded, better equiped, better trained, and have more personnel. Not to mention, based on demographics, they have just as big a pool of supers to pull from for the puposes of putting a team together than most other nations combined. We spend as much on our military budget in one year as the rest of the planet combined - why would the PRIMUS to UNTIL ratio be any different? So anyways - just ranting. IMW the US relies on PRIMUS, who has polite, if not somewhat stiff, relations with UNTIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician Okay then. Might as well start at the top: What tactics would everybody suggest for dealing with Doctor Destroyer?? Since this is just for fun, go ahead and use tactics based around your own characters and teams. Disguise myself as DD and taunt Takofanes. Then teleport/xdm out of Tak's LOS ASAP. Remember to get the popcorn, soda, and good seats for the fight before the scalpers arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Originally posted by Steve Long We don't have any plans to actually publish a USTRM at this point; it's just a nifty framing device for sidebar comments and such. Among other things, it would be as dull as ditchwater to write, and I'm not willing to be that cruel to Allen. But you never know; at some point maybe we'll take a hankering to the idea and cogitate upon it further. Maybe you could spare Allen the torment, and farm out the manuscript to a freelancer who actually enjoys mind-numbingly dull work (he says, giving his most phony "innocent" look). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Well, UNTIL apparently is decently funded ( mainly by the US, obviously ). Currently, they also have the Ragnarock. Dropping that on DD will surely get his attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeAsianKid Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 I'd get a telepath to broadcast on the mental hotline "Menton, we need your help against Dr. D." Failing that, I'd get OJ's lawyers to litigate Dr. Destroyer to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Okay, how about Gravitar?? For reference, lets look at this from two points of view: -An army of Agents/military -Your team of superhumans, buffed up to 500 points if less powerful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzini Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Anyway... Along the lines of tactics, what would need to be known is what do the Supers DO. How long have they been around to gauge their tactics against yours? If these things were known, it would be easier to develop plans around that. For Example: Who says you are gonna find Dr D standing around...ALONE.?!? Doesn't he have like, ARMIES, and Super henchmen? Let's talk about how to deal with a squadron of Black Talons and destroyer bots First..(Like he just stands there waiting to be beaten) This man has PLANS! A General doesn't fight a war alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Okay, some tactics for my group against Doctor Destroyer ( six 750+ point heroes ). My own character, Microman, is basically going to do one thing: shrink down to microverse size, enter DD's armor, and hope I can fight past whatever nanodestroids he's almost certainly got protecting the thing following his debut. At the very least, I hope to disable a system or two to give the rest of my team the edge. As for the rest of them: the best tactic I can think of is for Horus-Re ( Superman analogue ), Starguard ( GL analogue ), Warp ( spatial manipulator ), and Psi-Legionaire ( Lensmen analogue ) to engage in a frontal assault, drawing his attention. . . . . .while Warmaster Fielan ( Thrawn + Fremen/Bene Gesserit ) sneaks up behind him under psychic ( or other ) cloak, and uses his enhanced reflexes and monomolecular blade to do a surprise Autofire NND + Does Body HKA to the back of DD's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Okay, versus Gravitar. My own personal maneuver with Microman involves being at combat size ( 1/4 inch ), and using my Sonic Disruptor ( 6d6 AVLD: Flash Defense ). Once she starts hauling out the AoE stuff on me, I go Microverse. As for the team as a whole, Gravitar is a ( relatively ) low threat. She has no mental defense, and we have two powerful telepaths. If nothing else, she gets Ego Blasted alot. Okay, next up: Menton. Assume he's on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Well, Menton has no Area of Effect attacks, so any opponents should spread themselves out as much as possible. This would also minimize the damage that your allies may do to you if (or perhaps "when") Menton takes them over. Keep an eye on where Menton sets up his Force Wall, so that some team members are always ready to hit him from his less well-protected side. Menton's Defenses are slightly less effective against Physical attacks than Energy attacks. A tough character with a lot of Movement may be quite effective doing a Move Through against him. Otherwise, your best chance is to hit Menton hard and fast with coordinated attacks to Stun him before he starts laying waste to your greymatter. BTW regarding Dr. Destroyer: note that he has no Knockback Resistance, so you should take every opportunity to knock him off his feet and make him waste actions getting back up. He has a lot of STR to brace against Knockback with, but if you can surround him you can hit him from directions he's not prepared for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 If Rapid Fire is allowed, Menton will Rapid Fire 6 times with his 6 Def 6d6 Mental Entangle and a 20 OECV. This will paralyze virtually everyone on most teams, and he can then take a much needed recovery or two and finish them off with his mental powers or TK and 9 Spd. If Rapid Fire isn't allowed, Menton is in real trouble vs a strong superteam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 I can't remember, whats the rule for BOECV Entangles and Mental Defense?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician I can't remember, whats the rule for BOECV Entangles and Mental Defense?? Normally Mental Defense doesn't help at all. Menton has a Limitation on his that the target can add MD to Ego to get an effective Str for breaking out. So if the target has Ego 20 and 20 pts of MD, he's effectively 40 Str for the purposes of breaking the Entangle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Menton: Logically, he'd never face the heroes face to face. He has Mind Scan, folks, and lots of it. He'll be laying waste to the team from a mile away. And, if I remember correctly, he can use that BOECV Entangle through the Scan. Gravitar: She's beatable if you can get past her ungodly defenses. Without a mentalist though, you're in for a rough night. Martial Artists might as well stay at home too. Doc Destroyer: Attack full force. Don't give him a break. Knock him down and otherwise make him waste time. Anything to keep him from focusing one of those power blasts on you. I will say a standard team of 350pt characters has no chance against Destroyer. He does WAY too much damage. He's basically taking out a PC per phase. My old mentalist, The Living EGO, would try to confuse him with illusions, wasting his phases while the other members of the Ultimate Protectors coordinate at range to set him up for a bearhug from our 100 STR Brick....Orca!(The group consisted of Living EGO, Orca, Lightmaster, Guardian, and Ninja....all high powered heroes.) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Well, in our case, the rapidfire Entangle wouldn't work so well. Too many people with enough Ego and Mental Defense to bust out of it in a single action. To say nothing of one member ( me ) being immune, due to being Machine-class mind. . . As for the long-distance Mind Scan sniping, that would hurt like hell against almost any superteam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician Well, in our case, the rapidfire Entangle wouldn't work so well. Too many people with enough Ego and Mental Defense to bust out of it in a single action. To say nothing of one member ( me ) being immune, due to being Machine-class mind. . . As for the long-distance Mind Scan sniping, that would hurt like hell against almost any superteam. The Mental Entangle affects everyone. There is no class of minds associated with it. How many people in your group have Ego + MD of 60+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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