Kitty Pryde and Comic Book Advancement

[Colossus]

Working with those who are new to the Hero system, but not comics is interesting.

 

I was trying to generate a “dimension traveling†campaign and wanted the PC’s to face the X-Men from the 1980’s. I know there are hundreds of versions of them out there, but I wanted them balanced with a group of 350 PC. (I know most of the X-Men would cost a lot more in some generations).

 

I wanted 6 characters

I had no trouble with Colossus, Cyclops, Wolverine, or Storm.

Rogue was right out (she simply was away)

The two that were problems were Shadowcat and Nightcrawler. Hurt was doable; I simply had to tone down his teleporting.

 

Kitty was not. She can phase up to at least 8 times her own mass, where they are willing or not. (Desolid [+ 1 Usable as an Attack; + ¾ Up to 8X mass] = 110), her ability to dispute electronics must be at least 30 to 40 active points (which become 90 to 120 with the +2 for effect solids). She is also a Ninja post Kitty Pryde and Wolverine.

 

This got me thinking, she is a wonderful example of two things. One a character that is expensive to generate using the Hero system. More interestingly she is also an example of a character that has used experience. When she first appeared she could only faze herself (40 points); she gradually learned to use her power in more ways.

 

The whole Kitty Pryde and Wolverine LS is a classic example of a Radiation accident.

 

So I simply created a playable version of Kitty pre-Ninja at 350.

 

Now to my question. Can you think of other characters from comics that really show growth in Champions like manner?

 

My list would certainly include all the Original X-Men, The Fantastic Four, the various Bat allies, Iron Man and more. Can you think of others?

[Kzinbane]

3 off the top of my head

 

RIght off the top of my head Iron man comes to mind first. He starts out in a very limited armored suit that could probably BE a 350 point (or less) starting Champions character. Look at him now though, no way you get him into 350 points reasonably! He has obviously spent a few experience points.

Dick Grayson also would be a likely Champions role model. From his days as Robin he's greatly improved, and now can hold his own and is almost a match for Batman at least physically.

The only other one that immediatly comes to mind is Sue Storm. She started out as just being able to turn ivisible and having few skills. Now she's likely the most powerful member of the FF, very skillful in her own right and can do lots of fun things with her force shields.

I know there are more (I read too many comics) but I'll stop here.

[Urklore]

Iceman is another prime example of this growth. At first he was just a snow covered clown, then an icy shell. Then he got zapped by Loki to god-like cold generation. He finally got control of that and was able to function without his inhibitor belt. Then he finally figures out how to increase his mass (giant iced spikes and super dense armor, giant icy fists, larger than man-sized buffed by super dense icecular muscles). And then lastly, he can now turn his body into ice itself giving him virtual indestructability (he simply reforms himself) and the ability to alter his form.

 

I'd love to see write ups for each of his various 'phases' of his growth.

 

He probably started at 250pts, then after some exp added armor and a transform ability to create ice-based constructs and objects. Then a permanent powerful cold damage area effect always on. After a while he pays off the points of the always on disadvantage (which was also helped by an OAF focus, the inhibitor belt). Eventually he then added growth and other body-based powers (tougher armor, damage shield for the spiked armor, +HA area effect of super huge icy fists, increased strength linked to ice armor, Growth as he adds more ice to his mass, etc). After this he gets creative with his ability and adds the 'gimmick' effects. Enhanced sense to detect the changes in temperatures, ability to freeze water molecules in targets to cause unconsciousness or death, etc. Finally I'd say as he is now, around 500pts with a multiform or shapechange ability to count for his pure ice form.

[Redmenace]

Speedy, from Sidekick to Green Arrow and Teen Titans member to Junkie and to his current Outsiders leader. Not so different in power but a long, detailed and well developed character story.

 

The Hulk has had a tortuos career, gaining, losing ability again and again. He is kind of the posterboy for the radiation accident.

 

This wasn't a mainstream comic but the best example I can recall would be bill Willingham's The Elementals. They went from normals to powered individuals whose abilities matured. At least one of the characters is barely recognizable as the same guy by the end.

[Guest cubist]

One thing to keep in mind in egards to Kitty's phaisng is that the electronics disruption is not an attack- its a side effect of her power, she cannot controlit, stop it or in any way manipulate it, meaning that she needs to avoid any important electrical systems wehn phasing or she will cook them, which can be(and has been) bad.

[Supreme Serpent]

Hank Pym (Ant-Man / Giant-Man / Yellowjacket / Goliath / Dr.Pym / etcetc) He's definitely gotten power/ability changes over the years.

 

For that matter, the Wasp, while her basic powers really haven't changed, has upped her sting, and her Presence has gone up, as well as getting various skills.

 

Jean Grey, depending on how you view the whole Phoenix stuff.

 

Invisible Girl/Woman. Definitely more powerful/skilled as time went on.

[Enforcer84]

Jan can grow now too...

[Supreme Serpent]

Originally posted by Enforcer84

Jan can grow now too...

 

Yeah, but I suspect that won't last more than a few issues. We'll have to see...but I probably won't since Avengers is heading downhill at present, IMO.

 

 

Scarlet Witch comes to mind too. In fact, I think that a lot of the female characters introduced in the 1960's fall into this category - "weaker" at first compared to the male characters, but have become more powerful/capable as time and cultural attitudes have changed...can you imagine She-Hulk in 1963?

[Vex]

Experience and Radiation Accidents

 

Colossus - His fighting abilites, Strength and Defenses increased as he aged, then after he was injured in a fight and healed by Magneto his Strength and Defenses improved dramatically.

 

Wonder Man - Got stronger as he got more experienced, now has a Ion body.

 

Emma Frost - Her mental abilities were pretty strong when she first appeared in comics (they have a series out that is showing how her powers developed) but in the last few years she has gained the ability to transform into a diamond hard form that is impervious to damage and mental powers (multiform as she cannot use her mental powers while in this form)

 

The Beast - Gained experience and has gone through several radiation accidents.

 

Psylocke - Went through several forms, powered armour (Captain Britain), mentalist/telekinetic in chain armour, psionic enhanced ninja (had psi knife and little else), psi ninja with her full mental powers, back to ninja and then to corpse.

 

Angel - He has gone from a "regular" winged mutant, to death with metal wings that can shoot poisonous daggers, to a mutant that can manifest wings of pure energy to a winged mutant with the ability to heal with his blood.

 

Warpath - Has gained quite a bit of skill, increased strength and defenses, and started adding new powers such as enhanced senses.

 

Cannonball - When he first started he could barely turn his power on and he couldn't have it on very long (much less turn). Now he is a very competent leader and tactician, can fly on demand and has great control and can fire energy blasts.

 

Aqua Man - Lost his hand and got a really cool hook, then lost the hook and has a magic hand made of water and can, uhm....still....uhm talk to fishies...

 

Green Lantern - Most of them have gotten more powerful the longer they have the ring, but the Kyle Radner version (the main GL) started out with no experience and has slowly increased until he is one of the most powerful GLs ever. He has even gone through a radiation accident where he gained the power of all of the GL and became a "god" named ION. Although he didn't keep the power long, he did make it so that the ring only answered to him (removed the OIF off of his powers making the ring a special effect) and did not run out of power and need recharging every 24 hours, it still needs to be recharged periodically depending on useage, but it also has a small backup charge to keep him going in emergencies (he purchased another Endurance Reserve without the "needs recharging every day" limitation)

[Doug McCrae]

Possibly Superman though his growth from 1938 to 1945 is probably greater than can be justified with XP alone. Unless his GM was very generous.

[astralfrontier]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae

Possibly Superman though his growth from 1938 to 1945 is probably greater than can be justified with XP alone. Unless his GM was very generous.

 

Every time Supes' player asked "why all the tons of XP?" the GM just giggled, mumbled "Crisis" to himself and said "You'll seeeeeeeeeeeee"

[Killer Shrike]

As far as Kitty is concerned, She could probably be built on 350 points using 1 or 2 frameworks.

 

As far as being a "Ninja" , just give her a small "Ninjutsu" MA package. Martial Escape, a strike, a block and flying dodge should cover the things she did in comics I can recall, maybe backed up by a Stealth and Contortionist Skill, and a weapon element or two.

[Metaphysician]

The problem being, Kitty has a bunch of surprisingly expensive powers, even with a framework.

 

And she's got more than just basic combat skills. She's good enough to handle some damn skilled and powerful combatants without her powers. IOW, decent list of maneuvers, at least one DC, a couple levels.

 

*AND* she's got a decent array of noncombat skills, particularly computer-related materials and leadership abilities.

 

She's at least a 500 pointer, by the time of Excalibur.

[Allandrel]

Spider-Man. He's much more capable now than when he was a teenager.

 

Cable's psionic abilities steadily grew, and eventually he purged the techno-organic virus from his body, opening up the full range of his powers.

 

Of course, the comic book king of spending experience: any Dragon Ball Z character.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Metaphysician

The problem being, Kitty has a bunch of surprisingly expensive powers, even with a framework.

 

And she's got more than just basic combat skills. She's good enough to handle some damn skilled and powerful combatants without her powers. IOW, decent list of maneuvers, at least one DC, a couple levels.

 

*AND* she's got a decent array of noncombat skills, particularly computer-related materials and leadership abilities.

 

She's at least a 500 pointer, by the time of Excalibur.

Right, but if you were aiming at a 350 point, just start from her Arial days (or was it Sprite first), and build her up until you run out of points. Whereever she's at in the continuity when you reach 350 pts is the version you use.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Allandrel

Spider-Man. He's much more capable now than when he was a teenager.

 

Cable's psionic abilities steadily grew, and eventually he purged the techno-organic virus from his body, opening up the full range of his powers.

 

Of course, the comic book king of spending experience: any Dragon Ball Z character.

 

Patrick J McGraw

 

DBZ isn't spending experience.

 

What ACTUALLY happens, is the GM read that bit in Ninja Hero about permanently adding 50 points mid way through each arc... and decided that sounded fun.

 

So, whenever they lose... wo go to 'Wise Old Master' equivalent and add 50 CPs.

[Allandrel]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

DBZ isn't spending experience.

 

What ACTUALLY happens, is the GM read that bit in Ninja Hero about permanently adding 50 points mid way through each arc... and decided that sounded fun.

 

So, whenever they lose... wo go to 'Wise Old Master' equivalent and add 50 CPs.

 

I've haven't read Ninja Hero, but I like that rule.

 

Of course, if you're a Saiya-jin you get CPs for getting beaten up, too.

 

(Yes, I am seriously considering developing DBZ rules with the Hero System. I've already got a pretty workable MEGS-based set, but I love to tinker.)

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Allandrel

I've haven't read Ninja Hero, but I like that rule.

 

Of course, if you're a Saiya-jin you get CPs for getting beaten up, too.

 

(Yes, I am seriously considering developing DBZ rules with the Hero System. I've already got a pretty workable MEGS-based set, but I love to tinker.)

 

Patrick J McGraw

 

To expand:

 

Ninja HERO suggested starting off with 100 pt heroic PCs... and letting a Martial Art Villain Person thrash them.

 

They find the Old Master whcan train them... and power up. It also says it's hard to keep doing this.... unless you don't mind constant power increases.

 

DBZ is *exactly* what that produces.

 

Saiyajin simply get to shortircuit the 'find a Master' portion after a while.

[Allandrel]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

To expand:

 

Ninja HERO suggested starting off with 100 pt heroic PCs... and letting a Martial Art Villain Person thrash them.

 

They find the Old Master whcan train them... and power up. It also says it's hard to keep doing this.... unless you don't mind constant power increases.

 

DBZ is *exactly* what that produces.

 

Saiyajin simply get to shortircuit the 'find a Master' portion after a while.

 

What that makes me think of is how for the first ten or so volumes, people's power levels (CP totals!) are constantly being bandied around, but eventually they get so ridiculously high that nobody bothers trying to measure them. (The GM has stopped keeping track of CP awards.)

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Black Rose]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

To expand:

 

Ninja HERO suggested starting off with 100 pt heroic PCs... and letting a Martial Art Villain Person thrash them.

 

They find the Old Master whcan train them... and power up. It also says it's hard to keep doing this.... unless you don't mind constant power increases.

 

DBZ is *exactly* what that produces.

 

Saiyajin simply get to shortircuit the 'find a Master' portion after a while.

 

But you have to come up with sufficiently interesting training techniques. For example, in an episode I saw recently (I have no idea where it happens in the continuity, except I know it's before Goku marries Chi Chi) Goku's getting ready to fight Tien Chin Han, and asks if he can take off his shirt off, since it's hot. He removes his shirt and drops it, where it cracks the tiles of the arena. Then he takes off his wrist bands, which do the same. Boots, same thing. Turns out, he's been training with very heavy weights on at all times to increase his speed and strength.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Black Rose

But you have to come up with sufficiently interesting training techniques. For example, in an episode I saw recently (I have no idea where it happens in the continuity, except I know it's before Goku marries Chi Chi) Goku's getting ready to fight Tien Chin Han, and asks if he can take off his shirt off, since it's hot. He removes his shirt and drops it, where it cracks the tiles of the arena. Then he takes off his wrist bands, which do the same. Boots, same thing. Turns out, he's been training with very heavy weights on at all times to increase his speed and strength.

 

Of course, of course.

 

GM decides when you deserve it.

 

However, I'd like to say... EVERYONE does that. Well, maybe not everyone. However, at least two other characters... hmm. Guess only ONE PC needs to get creative.

[Allandrel]

It's only a small step from that to training under increased gravity.

 

...which actually sounds like a really cool idea.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Allandrel

It's only a small step from that to training under increased gravity.

 

...which actually sounds like a really cool idea.

 

Patrick J McGraw

 

And yet it looked so silly when they DID it on DBZ....

[Allandrel]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

And yet it looked so silly when they DID it on DBZ....

 

That's because DBZ is silly. But once you embrace the silliness, it's one of the coolest things ever.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Sketchpad]

Nightwing is a prime candidate ... like Speedy, he's gone from sidekick to full-fledged hero. And some of the back story between him and the Bat is quite interesting

 

Cannonball is another ... from New Mutant to X-Man ... he's shown a lot of development and has proven himself as one of the big kids

 

To see some kids in the midst of change, take a look at Teen Titans (the comic), it shows some great growth.