What I'd like to see in 5E Revised

[War Admiral]

Everything I've read about the upcoming Revised 5E sounds pretty good to me, but I will add this:

 

One of the things I like most about the current edition is its sturdiness. The thing can take a handling and a beating. I seem to recall reading some time ago that Fred got his hazing by being thrown in a laundry dryer for half an hour or some such. I've never tried that with mine, but it sounds pretty tough, and all I can say is that I've carried the bugger around with me for over about a year and a half now in three different cities across the U.S., in rain, snow and shine and it still looks good. Granted, the cover is nicked up a bit and the whole bottom edge of its pages are a little warped from my dumbass leaving it sitting in my bookbag in a pile of melting snow for two hours, but damn if it doesnt still look good. The spine is nice and strong still. I like that a lot (ahem, cough, cough to all you game companies out there that make a book that's all style and no substance and can't hold up to real-life gamer usage).

 

And that brings me to the paper itself. I love this stuff! You guys definately need to keep this paper going. Like I said, mine suffered some water damage, but it's nothing compared to the fate suffered by other books of mine in the past (something about my books and water, just cant' seem to avoid it). Plus, and this is another important point to me, the paper is perfect for colouring on with coloured pencils. So, what am I really saying when I say that? Let's have more artwork in 5ER that's worth colouring in! I'm serious! Hell, include a coupon for a free set of coloured pencils or something in all copies sold at major bookstores (Borders, B&N, etc) to get all the non-gamer types who might be looking at the book for the first time more interested in it.

 

For that matter, let's see the book sold at some of those major retailers. I think seeing this book in stores outside just the gamer-specialty shops might go a long way towards recruiting new players. There are a *lot* of so-called "mundanes" out there who would really dig the excitement of gaming if they had a chance. So why not include a little appendix or something giving some advice and guidance for the new folks on how to find more about the game, how to set up their first session with their friends, something like this. I don't know. Something that someone casually browsing through the book would see easily. Maybe it'll help a couple people who might not buy the book because it looks too dense or intimidating give it a try anyway.

 

But yeah, I'd say keep up the toughness of the book, the greatness of its paper, more colouring-worthy artwork, and a tad more user-friendly in terms of organisation of information... some stuff seems to be scattered about... I can't think of anything right now to back up that statement, but it just feels that way sometimes. But the index is fantastic and has always come to my aid when I was stumped for where to find something.

 

Thanks for listening

[Steve Long]

While we're certainly going to keep the book as tough and sturdy as ever, we're probably going to have even better paper. That way we can add pages without increasing the overall size of the book too much (if any).

[Dust Raven]

While having paper that's ideal for coloring is very, very cool, it's not exactly a selling point for me. The durability is a must tough. FREd seems to be making up for the BBB and then some in that respect.

 

I would definately agree the book should hit some of the mainstream bookstores such as Boarders, BN, Walden's and such. Other RPG products are sold is these stores, and in several they are stocked right next to the superhero graphic novels. The Champions books would almost sell themselves!

[CorpCommander]

break old designs?

 

Will the revised edition just be corrections and expansions or will Hero be making the leap with some fundamental changes?

 

I'd prefer no significant rules changes but I know others have been begging for some big changes on these boards for a while.

[Kristopher]

Nothing.

[CDad]

Any chance to change Megascale?

 

1" = 1 KM @ +1/4 is a giant jump.

 

I've seen the following in many house rules...

1" = 10" @ +1/4

1" = 100" @ +1/2

1" = 1000" (2 KM) @ +3/4 [etc....]

 

This is a squishy-grey area between NC-movement and mega-movement, but I like the consistancy here.

 

If this has been covered before, my apologies up front!

[Ndreare]

Originally posted by CDad

Any chance to change Megascale?

 

1" = 1 KM @ +1/4 is a giant jump.

 

I've seen the following in many house rules...

1" = 10" @ +1/4

1" = 100" @ +1/2

1" = 1000" (2 KM) @ +3/4 [etc....]

 

This is a squishy-grey area between NC-movement and mega-movement, but I like the consistancy here.

 

If this has been covered before, my apologies up front!

 

This would be so much better than the whole +1/4 times 1000 usefulness ration we have now.

[Steve Long]

This has been discussed in several other threads. There aren't going to be any rules changes, except insofar as incorporation of information from the Rules FAQ requires them. Many, many years from now, when it comes time to do a 6E, we'll open up every single thing in the system for discussion and potential change, but that's not this book.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by CDad

Any chance to change Megascale?

1" = 1 KM @ +1/4 is a giant jump.

 

I've seen the following in many house rules...

1" = 10" @ +1/4

1" = 100" @ +1/2

1" = 1000" (2 KM) @ +3/4 [etc....]

The trouble with this, IMO, is that 1"=10" is actually much more useful in many ways than 1"=1KM, and worth more than +1/4. The drawback of MegaScale is that it can't be used in personal scale. Sure, you can use it to build a big Teleport that'll take you to the moon, but you can't use it to Teleport across the street. You can make a Killing Attack that'll wipe out everything in a football stadium, but you have to wipe out everything in the football stadium.

 

If you make the "entry-level" of MegaScale smaller, it greatly reduces that drawback aspect of it. It makes it much more useful in the situations characters generally find themselves in.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

The trouble with this, IMO, is that 1"=10" is actually much more useful in many ways than 1"=1KM, and worth more than +1/4. The drawback of MegaScale is that it can't be used in personal scale. Sure, you can use it to build a big Teleport that'll take you to the moon, but you can't use it to Teleport across the street. You can make a Killing Attack that'll wipe out everything in a football stadium, but you have to wipe out everything in the football stadium.

 

If you make the "entry-level" of MegaScale smaller, it greatly reduces that drawback aspect of it. It makes it much more useful in the situations characters generally find themselves in.

 

I agree with Derek here. If we lower the entry level to 1" = 10", what's a more useful construct?

 

Teleport 50" (100 points, 10 END)

 

OR

 

Teleport 10", +1/4 Megascale (1" = 10"; 25 points, 2 END; moves twice as far)

 

I can't move in the same fine gradations, but I can use the 75 points I saved to buy 5" of Stretching or 4 PSL's against range penalties, so I can attack all the same hexes at no penalty. That still leaves lots of points left over, and I can move twice as far.

 

In my opinion, Megascale is useful only as a "mass transit" ability. I can get from North America to Europe in the blink of an eye, but I can't cross the street. Water it down to 1" = 10", and you create an ability with much greater combat potential. In this case, less is definitely more.

[Talon]

What I'd like to see is something I'm sure Steve is going to do -- careful attention paid to the FAQ answers so that the resulting text is clear and concise. Right now the FAQ is something of a mess, just because it grew one question at a time (as FAQs pretty much do I guess).

[Hugh Neilson]

ANy chance of a nomenclature change? I'd like to see "Age" renamed to something which is not SFX specific. For example, "Frail". There's no reason one should have to be old to have greater restructions to physical characteristics, just as there's no reason every character age 40+ is required to take "Age".

[TheEmerged]

I realize this is just a reprint w/ corrections but...

 

The main things I'd like to see that aren't rule changes are a LOT more character creation examples (I'm talking more than a dozen) and a combat example lasting at least a turn.

[CorpCommander]

Fantastic

 

Originally posted by Steve Long

This has been discussed in several other threads. There aren't going to be any rules changes, except insofar as incorporation of information from the Rules FAQ requires them. Many, many years from now, when it comes time to do a 6E, we'll open up every single thing in the system for discussion and potential change, but that's not this book.

 

This is the best approach. I am very glad this isn't going to be edition 5.5! wink wink nudge nudge!

 

I am looking forward to the new revision. I'll have to bequeath my FRED to one of my poorer players who doesn't have a copy.

 

--Pete

[jwalsh]

Originally posted by Steve Long

While we're certainly going to keep the book as tough and sturdy as ever, we're probably going to have even better paper. That way we can add pages without increasing the overall size of the book too much (if any).

 

And, hopefully, no errata will be necessary!

 

I buy a lot of books, and a few years ago I got sick of all the critical errors carelessly left in my RPG and technical books. Page after page of errata is just unacceptable to me. So now I refuse to buy any RPG or technical book that has more errors than the typical full-length novel. Which is to say, almost none.

 

I'm hoping that 5E Revised will have far fewer errors than 5E. Until then, I'll be sticking with 4.2E. I'd love to upgrade, but I work too hard to throw my money away on poorly edited products.

 

 

-Joe

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

ANy chance of a nomenclature change? I'd like to see "Age" renamed to something which is not SFX specific. For example, "Frail". There's no reason one should have to be old to have greater restructions to physical characteristics, just as there's no reason every character age 40+ is required to take "Age".

 

I think there's just as much chance of that as there is of them changing Energy Blast to Harming Blast (not necessarily energy after all).

 

Just 'cause it's called "Age" doesn't mean it has to represent age. Just like you can use a Physical Limitation to represent an insurmountable mental problem (such as lack of knowledge).

[PhilFleischmann]

What I'd like to see:

 

Remove the statement "No Temperature Level 0 Exists." (I said this many times before.) If you like, you can replace it with, "Temperature Level 1 is too hot, Temperature Level -1 is too cold, but Temerature Level 0 is just right."

 

Perhaps some explanation of the reasons for certain rules, particularly those that were changed from 4th, like Damage Shield, and Shape Shift.

 

In the Movement section, don't leave out the subsection on Swinging, like you did in FREd and in the BBB.

 

But most important of all: PROOFREAD the ever-loving #$%#@ out of it! And then proofread it some more! Again! Make sure all the TABLES are properly aligned. Make sure the information in the tables is correct (Teleportation Damage). Triple check ALL the math!

[Pteryx]

Will the writing have more life to it? It took me over a month to read the thing cover to cover, and I've heard others complain about the dryness of FREd's text as well. -- Pteryx

[Angaros]

I'd like to see an improvement in layout, or rather a facet of the book's layout. As it is now, HERO 5th stands out as a well-edited and nice book to read. I don't find the language particularly dry (maybe that's because I'm used to reading scientific papers on color reproduction and similar stuff), and the art is also good. BUT, there are virtually no margins. I understand that there's a lot of text that needs to get into as thin a book as possible, but I don't find that a good enough excuse for taking a nose-dive with this part of the layout. The margins of a page is not the space that is left after everything else has been put in. It's a form element like everything else (typeface, type size, leading, column size etc.) and it does affect readability, first impression and so on. I know I might come off as overly zealous about something that others might consider a minor issue (or none at all), but I've worked a bit with layout professionally and it annoys me when a game this good lacks a basic layout quality. Apart from the margins though, the game is well-made layout-wise.

 

Thanks for listening.

[CorpCommander]

well actually...

 

Actually I like the marginalia in FREd quite a bit. I can see what you are saying but at the same time I like to find treasure in the outer inch.

 

You must hate paperbacks - the margin is non-existant in them!

[devlin1]

Having read the entirety of this thread, I think I can safely say Steve & Co. have two major issues to tackle for the revision:

 

1. Editing

2. Margins

[Steve Long]

I've walked away from this twice, but I simply can't let it go unanswered.

 

Angaros, while I appreciate your expressing your opinion about our products, and even moreso your desire to make them better, I simply can't agree with your assertions. If you like empty margins, that's fine, but to claim that we're somehow doing something incorrectly or making some error in the way we choose to do them is just plain wrong. You may not like how we arrange some graphic element of a book, but your opinions aren't shared by everyone, and they're not irrefutable fact as you seem to imply. Andy's been working in layout, and nothing but layout, for a living for years. He's won awards for his layout work -- not just one, but several -- and he knows damn well what he's doing. To suggest otherwise borders on the insulting, at the very least.

 

The margins in our books are carefully constructed and used as one of many essential graphic elements in our books. They're just the way we want them, they function very well as an overall page element, and we absolutely are not changing them.

[Vondy]

My only layout complaint is thus:

 

I want ALL of the advantages and limitation in one place. The current method is counter-intuitive from an organizational perspective.

 

AND I LIKE THE SIDEBARS THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[lemming]

I'll just second Von D-man's two points.

[Guest Kolava]

If it weren't for the sidebars, I would have never been able to learn Hero. Seriously, those countless tiny, relevant examples are like a ladder up the steep learning curve, and I certainly find them more useful then blank space, even if said space satisfies some implicit law of "layout".

 

Besides, I didn't buy FREd as a treat for my eyes, I bought it for the information in it; in fact, the more the merrier--Andy should consider trimming off the top and bottom margins too, there's a wasted inch that could be more text!