oneoflittleword Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I am new to the board and still new to Champions. I have only played 4th Edition that I learned from a friend in Germany when I was stationed there. I was wondering is..... 1. How much of a change is 5th edition from 4th. 2. Is it something that a player/GM of lots of other hero RPG's would be interested in or should I stick to 4th edition. TIA FLAGG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_H-G Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Not much has changed. I feel that if you play 4th and are happy with it there won't be enough in 5th to justify a switch unless you just want your players to be able to easily find a copy of the book. Basically, a few powers have had their costs changed and some rules have been clarified or changed. Not much has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 In going from 4th to 5th edition, lots of things were cleaned up and some new options were made available (more flexibility in skills, some new adders for powers, large scale made easier to buy). If you're not having any problems playing 4th edition, you certainly don't have to change. There's some cool new stuff in 5th edition, but a lot of the changes simply clarify things to eliminate abuse or loopholes. That said, I don't regret buying it. Some of the new options made characters in my campaign more fun; the extra adders and abilities can really distinguish characters from one another and the new Champions background has a broader palette of special effects and interesting powers (most of which will be recognizable to any 4th edition player). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneoflittleword Posted March 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Thank you for the advice. I guess I should clarify my questions alittle better. I ment .... I would like to obtain the books since the ones that I was using was the friends from Germany. Is it better to go with the 5th edition since the 4th edition stuff is alot harder to track down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Re: How much of a change? Originally posted by oneoflittleword I1. How much of a change is 5th edition from 4th. Both a lot and a little. 4th Edition characters still work very easily with 5th Edition. There have been a few cost changes, and a few mechanics changes, but not too many. So you wouldn't need to make a lot of changes to a 4th Edition character to use them with 5th. However, you would almost certainly want to make changes, because the biggest thing 5th Edition does is give you lots more options for ways to simulate an even wider range of abilities. I've converted a fair number of characters to 5th Edition, and in every single case, there were new 5th Edition items that helped me define the character better than they had been defined in 4th. 2. Is it something that a player/GM of lots of other hero RPG's would be interested in or should I stick to 4th edition.Every single person I know who plays HERO System games has switched to 5th Edition. As the current release, it's the standard for Hero players. If you encounter new Hero players, they're almost certainly going to be playing 5th Edition. And that scenario will only increase over time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Re: Re: How much of a change? My group still hasn't switched. They haven't felt a need to. The above answers are pretty spot on, imo. Some stuff changed, some didn't... it's not a really huge difference, but the little things could add up to a lot. Lesser experienced players might not even notice the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Oh, I'd definitely buy the 5th edition book, then. It's easier to find, and in almost all cases, everything you did in 4th can be done the same way or easier in 5th. If you have the 5th rulebook, and try to join a 4th edition campaign, all the 'core' stuff will still be acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnoViking Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I think the biggest change was that the rules were written to make it easier for new players to understand. Lots of examples of powers and how things work. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 How much has changed? Follow This Link... and forgive me for tooting my own horn Side note: think it's time I submitted that for HERO Links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I would say change if its affordable to do so, otherwise...its not that big of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by TheEmerged How much has changed? Follow This Link... and forgive me for tooting my own horn Side note: think it's time I submitted that for HERO Links? My response would be, Definitely. I've already referred several people curious about the edition changes to your site - it's the most complete summary I'm aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneoflittleword Posted March 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by TheEmerged How much has changed? Follow This Link... and forgive me for tooting my own horn Side note: think it's time I submitted that for HERO Links? Thanks alot. That is just the kind of info that Iwas looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneoflittleword Posted March 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Now based on all the responce the next question is ..... Other that the main book, which supplements would be consided a must have for a GM? In time all would be the goal, but the must haves for really getting things rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Must haves for the GM ? While you can do it all with just the rulebook, I'd look at the specific genre books. For superheroes, I'd put Crooks, Killers, and Conquerors first, then Champions, the Champions Universe, then Millennium City. This assumes you know enough superhero genre to handle most things, so in order they're sample villains, then genre conventions and sample heroes, then the official setting. For scifi, it's just Star Hero and Terran Empire right now. Star Hero covers a lot of ground for SF; Terran Empire is a Space Opera official setting. For martial arts, Ultimate Martial Artist and Ninja Hero. The first has maneuvers and rules galore, the second is genre bits and plot ideas galore. Someday wish list would be Bestiary and Ultimate Vehicle. For Fantasy, wait for Fantasy Hero (or start with the Bestiary). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by oneoflittleword Now based on all the responce the next question is ..... Other that the main book, which supplements would be consided a must have for a GM? In time all would be the goal, but the must haves for really getting things rolling. Depends on what you want to run. For a superheroic game, Champions; Champions Universe if you want a premade setting, Conquerors Killers and Crooks for premade villains. For science fiction, Star Hero, Terran Empire for a premade setting, and Ultimate Vehicle for in-depth rules for starship creation. For martial arts gaming, Ninja Hero is the genre book; Ultimate Martial Artist is indispensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Must-haves Absolutely indispensible? Not a one, really. There's plenty of quality stuff that will greatly enhance your gaming experience in various areas, but as far as using the system, 5th Edition (or FREd as it's commonly nicknamed among the community) has everything in it that you would need. That's especially true if you have experience running campaigns in general and HERO in particular. Now, as far as what you would find particularly useful, that would vary a bit based on what you need and want. For general use books, my first suggestion would be the new HERO Bestiary. Tons of writeups for animals and other creatures for every genre, with optional rules and suggestions for how to use them, and templates to enable you to create the creatures you want. Far superior to the 4E version. Similarly, The Ultimate Vehicle would be a great help if you plan to use vehicles in any way in your campaigns; building options, combat rules, and examples of everything from chariots to starships. The Ultimate Martial Artist greatly expands the options for using martial arts for characters in any heroic or superheroic campaign, and has many pregenerated real-world and historical styles; but if you have the 4E version of that book, the changes are small enough that IMO you can put it lower down on your buy priority list. If you feel that you could use help developing and running a campaign of a certain genre, the three "genre books" published to date, Champions for supers, Star HERO for sci-fi, and Ninja HERO for martial arts, provide tons of GMing advice and system options to define the style and tone of any of the many sub-genres that they cover, as well as providing some ready-made characters, items and other play aids. Again, though, if you're not interested in these genres, or if you feel confident in your ability to run them, they can go farther down the list. If you'd like a pre-generated world to play in or just borrow ideas from, Champions Universe and Terran Empire (for futuristic sci-fi) are excellent, full of great ideas to use in whole or in part. And if you play supers, Conquerors, Killers and Crooks is a huge compendium of villains, solo and in groups, from irritants to world-conquerors. About half the villains are rewrites and updates of old favorites from the 4E days, while the rest are brand new. Hope that helps you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Reasons to Change: Easier to ask questions to HERO/DOJ and these boards if you have the current system Compatability with new supplements Book availability Reasons not to change: Expansive campaigns may take time to tweak (as with any conversion) Your group is resistant to change or do not have the cash to readily make upgrades So basically your reasons NOT to change are wholly a matter of your existing campaign if you had one. There are three reasons companies put out new editions: To clarify problems, stimulate interest in the game, and to Make Money. DoJ had just purchased HERO. It then became an issue of making some money off of their investment. So they cleaned up the system and republished it (with new "sidebars") in order to make back some money and to restimulate interest in the system. I enjoy the new book. It seems really well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_H-G Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I personally feel that The Ultimate Martial Artist is a must-have because otherwise you don't get the full martial arts rules, which are one of the best things about Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nblade Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by oneoflittleword Now based on all the responce the next question is ..... Other that the main book, which supplements would be consided a must have for a GM? In time all would be the goal, but the must haves for really getting things rolling. For me the following seems to be my top 3 picks and in no real order. they all have what I would call Generic Genre value. 1) Beastiary - Usuable for any genre I can think of. As people have pointed out much better than the 4ed version. 2) UMA - The expanded Martial Arts is very useful. You could if you have the 4th ed version of the UMA hold off on this one for a while. (or the Old Ninja Hero for that matter) 3) TUV - Has a great select of vehicles. Although some of the stats I would disagree on, but over all well done. Others that I find useful and interesting, Star Hero and the CKC, although only if you are running a Sci-Fi and Superhero games respectfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneoflittleword Posted March 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Thanks to everyone for the info. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by TheEmerged How much has changed? Follow This Link... and forgive me for tooting my own horn Side note: think it's time I submitted that for HERO Links? I knew this info was out there somewhere. Thanks for doing the work for me, Emerged! If you are ever in Ann Arbor, I'll buy you lunch. You earned it. (By the way, I find that we agree on many of the same issues... like the Defender Exploit and Megascale and the Regeneration fiasco. Your statement that "if you don't like it, veto it" is not an excuse for an illogical, poorly designed rule is so true. It is my biggest beef with 5th Edition, in that Steve and company went to such lengths, like Healing/Regen, to make them logically consistent at the expense of loaded complication, but then drop the ball on things like Megascale and Multilform, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Thanks gang. I'm correcting a very ignorant error someone emailed me about tonight, and submitting it for linkage. One thing for the record on the "If you don't like it, veto it" front: I have more of a problem with the argument than the tactic itself. I will certainly veto anything in my campaigns I find out of whack. That's still no excuse for perpetuating a rule flaw And I'm going to have to find a new name for "Defender Exploit", being that the character in question no longer has Normal Characteristic Maxima. Nothing has suggested itself yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by TheEmerged Thanks gang. I'm correcting a very ignorant error someone emailed me about tonight, and submitting it for linkage. One thing for the record on the "If you don't like it, veto it" front: I have more of a problem with the argument than the tactic itself. I will certainly veto anything in my campaigns I find out of whack. That's still no excuse for perpetuating a rule flaw Yep... you are correct again. The "Veto" is a tactic... not a reasonable argument for a lousy rule. I'm 100% behind you on that one. It's not a matter of being a stickler for the rules, but being a stickler for consistency in the rules... at least for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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