Autofire as Accuracy Booster

[Metaphysician]

Currently, one can use autofire to either gain potential extra hits against a target or to fire against multiple targets. However, it seems that one should also be able to use an autofire spray as a way to increase the likelihood of hitting. How would you model this??

 

My inclination: +1 OCV bonus per extra shot spent on accuracy ( meaning that said shot cannot be an extra hit ).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Currently, one can use autofire to either gain potential extra hits against a target or to fire against multiple targets. However, it seems that one should also be able to use an autofire spray as a way to increase the likelihood of hitting. How would you model this??

 

My inclination: +1 OCV bonus per extra shot spent on accuracy ( meaning that said shot cannot be an extra hit ).

Are you asking about adding a rule, or are you talking about buying extra OCV with limitations?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Buy your OCV bonuses with charges and define it as coming from the same charge pool as the regular autofire (assuming you want to keep that).

[Arthur]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

In previous editions, Autofire carried an automatic OCV modifier: +2 IIRC. I can't understand why that was dropped. Automatic fire is used for increased chance to hit with at least one round as much as going for multiple hits.

 

I have a House Rule where Autofire gets an OCV bonus of +(shots/2) rounded down. Therefore, AF3 gets a +1 OCV while AF5 gets +2 OCV. AF10 would get a +5 OCV.

 

I think Autofire is plenty expensive enough (both in Modifier and Charges/END used) to rate this bonus.

[Vondy]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Are you saying fire five shots at one target, but sacrificing four of them in exchange for a +4 with hitting the target one time?

 

It would work as a house rule, I guess, but is it even cost effective?

 

+4 OCV with one attack is 8 points.

 

If you include it in a compound power with the attack you can apply the focus lim (OAF, presumably) to it four a total cost of 4 points. And levels versus AF penalties are even cheaper.

 

I'm not saying you should go and be a gun-bunny munchkin, but the reality is that it would be cheaper for the character to purchase the CSLs or PSLs (I love PSLs, btw) outright in most cases.

 

If you just want to simulate "spraying to hit something" there is a mechanic for that - look at the rules for supressing fire.

[Herolover]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Currently, one can use autofire to either gain potential extra hits against a target or to fire against multiple targets. However, it seems that one should also be able to use an autofire spray as a way to increase the likelihood of hitting. How would you model this??

 

My inclination: +1 OCV bonus per extra shot spent on accuracy ( meaning that said shot cannot be an extra hit ).

 

This is not meant in a negative way and how anyone plays their games is up to them, but I really don't understand this. You want Autofire to increase the chance of hitting. Well, that is exactly what Autofire does in the game now as written. More bullets directed at a target mean more chances of hitting. It sounds to me what you want to do is limit the amount of rolling and instead roll one time instead of each time for each shot.

 

I suggest when you want to create one of your "autofire" attacks you make an attack that has extra OCV bonus plus higher damage than normal to represent the extra damage that you would take from extra shots hitting.

[lemming]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

In previous editions, Autofire carried an automatic OCV modifier: +2 IIRC. I can't understand why that was dropped. Automatic fire is used for increased chance to hit with at least one round as much as going for multiple hits.

 

I have a House Rule where Autofire gets an OCV bonus of +(shots/2) rounded down. Therefore, AF3 gets a +1 OCV while AF5 gets +2 OCV. AF10 would get a +5 OCV.

 

I think Autofire is plenty expensive enough (both in Modifier and Charges/END used) to rate this bonus.

It was +4 in 3rd, but that was for 10 shots and a +1/2 Advantage.

 

I'm actually fine with the change. After all it's only +2 pnts for a +1.

[lemming]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

This is not meant in a negative way and how anyone plays their games is up to them' date=' but I really don't understand this. You want Autofire to increase the chance of hitting. Well, that is exactly what Autofire does in the game now as written. More bullets directed at a target mean more chances of hitting. It sounds to me what you want to do is limit the amount of rolling and instead roll one time instead of each time for each shot.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

You only roll once in any case.

[Herolover]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.

[Victim]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

This is not meant in a negative way and how anyone plays their games is up to them, but I really don't understand this. You want Autofire to increase the chance of hitting. Well, that is exactly what Autofire does in the game now as written. More bullets directed at a target mean more chances of hitting. It sounds to me what you want to do is limit the amount of rolling and instead roll one time instead of each time for each shot.

 

That's not how autofire works. Autofire causes additional hits if the character hits by 2 or more. Only one attack is rolled.

 

Rapid fire is the mechanic that allows the character to make multiple attack rolls, but it doesn't improve chances of hitting since the first attack that misses causes the rest to miss as well.

[Herolover]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Yeah I got them mixed up for a moment.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Why not do something like this: buy CSLs, +4 OCV with Autofire Attack, Each +1 Is Treated As One Shot (-1/2). The Limitation means that (a) each +1 uses up one shot from the burst, so you could do 4 shots at +1, 3 at +2, down to 1 at +4, and ( each +1 used uses one Charge. So you could also do 1 shot at +1 OCV costing two Charges (effectively firing 2 shots).

 

Feel free to alter the Limitation value I used; that was just an example. You could also change the number of shots or alter it however you want; you could do 10 shot Autofire with +4, each +1 is two shots, or whatever other way you wanted.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

I might be willing to handwave a house rules saying that for every extra shot fired you gain a +1 OCV, but shots used for OCV can't hit the target. But I'd like to take a closer look.

 

Autofire 5 is +1/2, and using 4 shots would grant a +4 OCV. +4 OCV with a single attack would cost 8 points with levels. So as long as you are putting it on a Power with a Base Cost of more than 15 points it might be counted as fair. Especially if much, much higher.

 

But what if you want to use some shots for accuracy, but still hit with more than one shot? Well, those last two shots never hit anyway, so you can almost always drop those in favor for a +2, theyby hitting with an extra shot (compared to a roll made without the +2).

 

This is starting to sound potentially unbalancing. What if you buy it up more. AF10 is a +1, and could potentially grant you a +9 OCV. Drop 6 rounds into OCV and you've got a +6, allowing the extra three rounds fired to strike as easily as a single round fired. All you need is ammo.

 

I'm thinking some other construct needs to be built. This sound too unbalancing.

 

What about CSLs?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

I might be willing to handwave a house rules saying that for every extra shot fired you gain a +1 OCV' date=' but shots used for OCV can't hit the target. [/quote']

 

As you conclude the unbalancing comes when you allow the shots to be used for two purposes rather than just one. If you decide that someone wielding a machinegun can either try to make sure they hit the target (+4 for 5 shots, +9 for 10 etc) or simply try to riddle them with bullets then it isn't really that unbalancing.

 

I'm thinking some other construct needs to be built. This sound too unbalancing.

 

What about CSLs?

 

Well. You could argue for limited CSLs. If you bought Autofire 5 you might also buy +4 OCV limited by how many bullets can hit from a burst of autofire. If one hit is allowed then all 4 CSLs will count, if two hits are allowed then 3 CSLs etc etc. I might allow this to have a +1/4 limitation on the CSLs.

 

Doc

[TheEmerged]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

But what if you want to use some shots for accuracy' date=' but still hit with more than one shot? Well, those last two shots never hit anyway, so you can almost always drop those in favor for a +2, theyby hitting with an extra shot (compared to a roll made without the +2).[/quote']

 

Just a question, have you played with the new Autofire skills much? I have a PC with 10d6 EB 5-shot Autofire and 3 of the 4 AF Skills (not Rapid Autofire) and while it isn't common it's far from rare for him to hit with all five.

 

As to the topic at hand, personally I'd require the CSL with limit myself although I *could* see something like this as another 5-point Autofire Skill.

[SirViss]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

One thing that you could do to simulate more accuracy with a AF attack is make the power (Weapon, EB, RKA, ...) into a multipower and buy a slot wit AoE (1 hex, accurate) and call it "Filling up the Hex" And give it the Limitation of using 5 charges.

 

What do you guys think of this construct?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

What about CSLs?

 

This is what I was apparently implying in my posting above. I'll make it more obvious.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Thinking about CLS...

 

+4 OCV with Autofire Attack(s) (20 points), Each level uses it's own charge & can't uses Autofire shots (-2). Real Cost 7 points.

 

I'm basing the -2 value off of x4 END, which is effectively what you're doing (quadrupling the number of charges it takes to use the full power), plus an extra -1/2 to simulate that the charges used take the place of autofire shots.

 

This looks real cheep, but I think it works.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

If you wanna be really weird, you could buy extra damage classes for the attack, with the limitation "Only when Spreading the Attack" (-1/2).

 

That way you'd get the OCV bonus from spreading, and the extra damage classes would offset the loss from spreading.

 

 

Weird, yes?

[Greatwyrm]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Trading an extra shot for an increased chance to hit really isn't all that different from "spreading" an energy blast for the same reason, is it?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

This is not meant in a negative way and how anyone plays their games is up to them, but I really don't understand this. You want Autofire to increase the chance of hitting. Well, that is exactly what Autofire does in the game now as written. More bullets directed at a target mean more chances of hitting. It sounds to me what you want to do is limit the amount of rolling and instead roll one time instead of each time for each shot.

 

I suggest when you want to create one of your "autofire" attacks you make an attack that has extra OCV bonus plus higher damage than normal to represent the extra damage that you would take from extra shots hitting.

 

Nope, reread the autofire rules. When used against a single target, an autofire attack has the same OCV as a normal attack. Its just that unusually good attack rolls result in extra hits.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Autofire as Accuracy Booster

 

Trading an extra shot for an increased chance to hit really isn't all that different from "spreading" an energy blast for the same reason' date=' is it?[/quote']

Doesn't sound like it, until you realize that "spreading" with Autofire actually results it greater damage along with that accuracy. (see my first post in this thread).