How do you get players to role play in genre?

[Stompy]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

My vote is to find new players. Seriously….

 

I have seen MANY times where GM’s accept people into their game because they want/ need players, but eventually a rift develops between the player(s) and GM over what kind of game is going to be played. One camp wants H&S and the other wants more role-playing.

 

To help eliminate conflicts like the one you are experiencing, my whole gaming group does not allow the boyfriend, girlfriend, friend of a friend syndrome into our group. We actually interview potential players for gaming habits and expectations similar to our own. When someone expresses interest in attending a game we tell them they will need to “meet the guys.†Then, over dinner or a beer or two, we ask them to describe the types of games they have played or GM’d. If they are not inconsistent with our gaming style they are asked to attend the game.

 

The good news is that we have discovered that some people just don’t play certain genre’s well. They are cool people, and we are great friends, but we simply cannot invite them to play in certain games. On the flip side… those same people are fantastic when placed in right genre. You just have to match the game to the player.

[tesuji]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

anecdote... long time ago, i was happy to go to PLAY champions as opposed to run it. Arrived at the group, sat down, and it was quickly explained as maps were brought out...

 

"we used to do the whole thing... you know, starting with "where are you when the alarm goes off... how do you slip away from work ..." but we found that takes up too much time so now we just cut straight to the "outside the bank the villains are robbing" part so we can get more playing in."

[Nightmask]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

What a GM did to us was teleport the group in the middle as a field naked. We had to hike two miles to a village. To say the least, we had to explain ourselves.

[devlin1]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Interesting. We used to have a multiple-choice test for new inductees into the group. The questions were all derived from past gaming stories and experiences, so there's no way a new guy could possibly answer even one of them correctly, but if they could at least laugh at it, we knew they were okay.

 

Man, I wish I still had a copy of that thing....

[cyst13]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

It sounds a lot like you're stuck in a bad marriage. Ask any marriage counselor how realistic it is to expect another person to conform to your desires. You need to find new players, absolutely! If your city has a website to meet other players, use it. And be specific about the types of players you are looking for. Also, don't be shy about trying to recruit new players to the hobby. If you meet some guys who are into all the same comics as you and seem intelligent and mature, invite them into your game. If they have no RPG experience, all the better. They don't have any bad habits yet and you can teach them to play your way.

 

Seriously, I can not emphasize enough how futile it is to try to change really bad players into good ones. You're just in for a whole world of frustration. Give it up. Move on. You'll definitely thank me later.

[BNakagawa]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Don't award XP. (for gratuitous combat)

 

People who come from a D&D background seek combat because they're used to being rewarded for it. So take away the incentive.

 

Award XP for roleplaying and protecting the innocent and anything else that reinforces the genre.

 

To make it blatant, start the XP sequence with: The base XP for the game is 3 (or whatever), but _charactername_ did _outofcharacterthing_ and _countergenrething_ and _playerbadhabitthing_ so I'm docking a point each for those, so you get NADA.

 

See how long the pain lasts. Either they shape up and change their habits to get more XP or they leave. Either would be fine with me, but it's your game, so YMMV.

 

$0.02

[HeroGM]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

I punish them by taking away Xp's.

 

I normally toss 1 or 2 xps in as "in character" points. IF they don't play in character they don't get the points, end of story.

[Lord Quintus]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Hey all,

 

I have a group that just can't seem to grasp the conventions of the genre no matter what I do or how much I try to explain it. They come from a Dungeons and Dragons background and the game just seems to degenerate into getting to the fight as quickly as possible. The players are rarely in character and when I try to run stuff that might lead to more roleplaying, it generally goes nowhere. And yes...I have told the players about my concerns, but they just don't seem to get it(or don't care). I'm at my wits end. Help!

 

Rob

My advice is to kick them. Kick them mercilessly and repetitively. Kick them till they squirm.

 

But seriously. It depends on what genre you are running. Since your group are veterans of good ol' D'n'D I would start them off in a Fantasy Hero campaign close to what they are dealing with. Slowly build up more and more roleplaying. Do it sneakily. Start out with as many fights and such as you normally would, then, over the course of several sessions-maybe even several campaigns-bring them more and more into the roleplaying aspect. If that doesn't work, refer to my original advice.

[Magmarock]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

When it comes down to it, after all the advice in this thread, you really have four options:

 

1) Deprive them of what they want (which will make them unhappy)

 

2) Drown them in what they want (which will make you unhappy)

 

3) Dump them and find new players who play the game like you want

 

or

 

4) Make one of THEM be the GM! Tell them you need a break.

 

 

I don't think anyone suggested #4 yet, but it is a viable option. I've done this in the past with my group, when my game wasn't appreciated (or so I felt), and it really works. They won't know what they are missing until they don't have it anymore, you know?

 

Whatever you decide on, good luck to you!

 

 

Mags

[HeroGM]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Other people GM? Where is this mythical place?

[GamePhil]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

I don't try anymore. I just modify my campaign to whatever the players feel comfortable with. My goal as a GM is to be creative and entertaining, and unless the players want to play in a world that simply offends my sensibilities everything else is negotiable.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

I disagree with some statements above that you cannot make good players out of bad players.

 

Think back, folks. To your first game. Not necessarily of Champions, but your first gaming experience. Back. Back. Further. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuurther. There you go ... the newbie gamer in the group of older, more experienced players who'd been at this for a bit. How often did they roll your eyes at you? How often did they just stare at you, slack-jawed, because your wet-behind-the-ears character decided to do something stupid because you didn't know any better?

 

SOME players will never learn to RP, no. There are always some people who don't do things how we would like them to. Everybody has their own style, and while it's comforting to consider one's own style 'superior', that's really just an arrogant presumption. It's a game, and if everybody has fun, then it's a successful game, whether it's a deep immersion puzzle-solving murder mystery or a knee-deep-in-goblin-guts slashfest.

 

However, if a player (or multiple players') styles do not mesh with the GM, or the majority of the group, steps should be taken. When I'm starting a game (whether it be Champions, D&D, BESM, AU, or whathaveyou), I have a Ground Rules/Game Theme sheet prepared, printed up, and copied so everybody has one.

 

For example, one Champions game I ran drew heavily from the Avengers-as-U.N.-peacekeeping-force genre, so I made certain that was in plain English on the sheet, and expounded on what that meant; no casual killers, no lone-wolves, no psychopaths, etc. I had 'Code Against Killing' on the recommended Disads list. I even had a note that said that only one in every three games (or so) would be combat oriented; the rest would be RP/investigative/downtime/interaction/etc, so make sure your character has something to do besides fight.

 

What this does, is tells the player 'This Is What I Expect Of You and your Character'. If they cannot meet those expectations, they will need to either adapt, or find another game.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

I've usually taken a slightly different start than what CrosshairCollie suggests. Because it's a cooperative game, I start by asking what the players want. If the majority want something, then I usually give it to them. If I'm not comfortable with what they want (such as a hack 'n' slash slugfest every Friday night) I'll tell them straight out I don't run that, but if they're dead set for it, I'm not opposed to playing if someone else wants to GM. More often than not, this leads to a sea of dumbfounded faces, in which someone finally asks "well, what else is there?"

 

More often that not, I get a group of players who say they're fine with whatever I run. In that case, I'll set up some loose campaign expectations, let them make their characters and see what they come up with. Then I'll try to gear the game toward what they write up.

 

Fortunately, I've never been cursed with a group of hack'n'slashers. I've had a few in the group though, but after seeing how much fun it can be to actually role-play they usually end up getting into it.

[Descant]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

I disagree with some statements above that you cannot make good players out of bad players.

 

Think back, folks. To your first game. Not necessarily of Champions, but your first gaming experience. Back. Back. Further. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuurther. There you go ... the newbie gamer in the group of older, more experienced players who'd been at this for a bit. How often did they roll your eyes at you? How often did they just stare at you, slack-jawed, because your wet-behind-the-ears character decided to do something stupid because you didn't know any better?

Oh, that's funny! I loved that. I went through it, I have seen many go through it, I'm helping see somebody through it now...

*grabs a breath*

SOME players will never learn to RP' date=' no. There are always some people who don't do things how we would like them to. Everybody has their own style, and while it's comforting to consider one's own style 'superior', that's really just an arrogant presumption. It's a game, and if everybody has fun, then it's a successful game, whether it's a deep immersion puzzle-solving murder mystery or a knee-deep-in-goblin-guts slashfest.[/quote']

This is precisely what I was trying to say. Game Master's Job: Run a game that everybody playing will have fun being a part of. Very eloquently put, too.

However, if a player (or multiple players') styles do not mesh with the GM, or the majority of the group, steps should be taken. When I'm starting a game (whether it be Champions, D&D, BESM, AU, or whathaveyou), I have a Ground Rules/Game Theme sheet prepared, printed up, and copied so everybody has one.

 

For example, one Champions game I ran drew heavily from the Avengers-as-U.N.-peacekeeping-force genre, so I made certain that was in plain English on the sheet, and expounded on what that meant; no casual killers, no lone-wolves, no psychopaths, etc. I had 'Code Against Killing' on the recommended Disads list. I even had a note that said that only one in every three games (or so) would be combat oriented; the rest would be RP/investigative/downtime/interaction/etc, so make sure your character has something to do besides fight.

 

What this does, is tells the player 'This Is What I Expect Of You and your Character'. If they cannot meet those expectations, they will need to either adapt, or find another game.

Hmm. As Raven said, close to what he does, but it's more cooperative. What I like about his Universe is that there are several Campaign Cities within his world. Knight City is techie/cyborg/robots/kick-Mechanon's-@$$ style, Seacouver is more basic comic-book hero, X-Men-ish with a little supernatural and alien stuff flavor (IE-Champions default style), Edge City is more of a vigilante-ridden Gotham with a few bright sparks and a gritty sense of humor, and New Amsterdam is Captain America meets The Tick. Something for everyone. As players' moods change, we can switch cities.

 

Also, it is always good to know when to say "no". We got guilted into continuing several different games that were not working out, and it still ended up the same... ending. Just with more time wasted.

 

You said you weren't a quitter. I believe that, and I think people can change. But, if all else fails, giving up is not wholly wrong. At least you tried valiantly.

[Magmarock]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Think back' date=' folks. To your first game. Not necessarily of Champions, but your first gaming experience. Back. Back. Further. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuurther. There you go ... the newbie gamer in the group of older, more experienced players who'd been at this for a bit. How often did they roll your eyes at you? How often did they just stare at you, slack-jawed, because your wet-behind-the-ears character decided to do something stupid because you didn't know any better?[/quote']

 

I was never in this situation. My older brother and I went in "halvsies" on the basic boxed set of D&D, back in the day. My roommate joined us to play. We thought the game was like a board game (i.e. everyone plays) until we opened it up, read the rules, and found out one of us had to be the DM. Having one person step aside to run the game was a totally new concept to us and very intriguing. The DM mantle pretty much fell on my shoulders, as I was the most creative one of the bunch. Then we recruited my 12 year old brother because we needed more people to roleplay. That, and he wanted to hang with us older siblings. I can tell you that mom was quite please we were spending more time with our younger brother instead of shutting him out (huge age difference).

 

So there we were, three people in our twenties, and one kid, figuring out how to roleplay. We shared the dice and wrote out our characters on plain notebook paper. No one showed us how to roleplay and we muddled through. Eventually, we did branch out and find other gamers, and we invited people to join us. But I don't ever recall running into any people who were so superior in roleplaying skill that I felt like a newbie.

 

Of course, maybe the way we got into roleplaying is the exception to the norm. I suppose most people's early experience would be by invitation to an already established group. We've brought in several newbies over the years, but I sure hope we didn't come across like that.

 

As a side note, there was one experienced player who would, time after time, do lethal, bone-headed maneuvers in the games, even to the point of nearly wiping out the entire group... on several occasions. The things you put up with for friends, eh? He doesn't game with us anymore, thank goodness! But boy, oh boy, was her ever a continuity killer.

 

 

Mags

[BNakagawa]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Nah, anyone can learn to RP. They just need to unlearn years of bad habits.

 

D&D, and all of its derivatives are very pavlovian. You beat up monsters, you get exp and money and magic items.

 

What does this teach you? Build characters that are proficient at beating up monsters and derive benefits from standard magic items, which are mostly useful for helping you to beat up monsters.

 

So, what's the result? A generation of gamers that have every expectation that combat is the primary means of advancement and swag. A generation that has every expectation that combat is the whole point of the game.

 

So what's the fix? You need to find or engineer a game that explicitly rewards something other than gratuitous combat. Hopefully with rewards other than increased combat efficiency. Gamers are gamers. Once they learn the new rules, most will either adjust or play something else. But in order for this to happen, they have to be fully aware of the new rules and the consequences of breaking them.

 

$0.02

[Vorsch]

Re: How do you get players to role play in genre?

 

Its to do with game expectations, if your players simply will not play superheroes then you have no chance of running the type of campaign you expect to run.

 

I had a GM who was determined to run his style of game regardless, we told him that after the last three high powered space/fantasy games that we did not want a save the world campaign ( especialy with one of his annoyingly competent NPCs in tow ). he agreed. sure enough it was a save the world game with powerful NPC.

 

Just made it feel competative with the GM, and led to bad roleplaying from the group in general.