zornwil Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 In a joke thread over in NGD I mentioned I was going to Martial Dodge and Rachel suggested making that a "Martial Cringe". The idea intrigues me! Please, suggest what you would interpret a Martial Cringe as being and doing! Would you do it as a "zen maneuver", setting the attacker off-guard? How about a specialized Block-linked power that causes the deliverer to soften it as they react to the cringe? How about it being a maneuver you'd do when wanting to throw off the opponent - it's a sort of fake-out, where the cringe isn't real, it draws the attacker in, and then you attack with a follow-up maneuver - a sort of "defensive haymaker", the cringe is the first "half" and the linked strike is the other!? I do think of it as maneuver + power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Extra defenses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe How about a specialized Block-linked power that causes the deliverer to soften it as they react to the cringe? How's this? A bonus to a specialized 'hesitate' form of 'presense attack' +10 or +20 PRE only to cause attacker to hesitate or pull punch by faking surrender. +2 to DEX/initiative rolls vs. attacker if 'hesitate' is sucessfull not too far from manuevers in Jackie Chan's drunken master style in some ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magmarock Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Martial Cringe: A maneuver you abort to after an extremely intimidating PRE Attack. Or you can Dive for Cower! Mags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted May 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Martial Cringe: A maneuver you abort to after an extremely intimidating PRE Attack. Or you can Dive for Cower! Mags I particularly like it as a PRE Defense boost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe "Abort to Martial Cringe" is a term one of our players came up with when an MA was about to get crunched and he'd already used his action. It's become a staple in our campaign now . Mentor used the term here in the "Your Gaming Group's Jargon" thread. If there was a "real" one I think it would be a martial Roll with the Punch. Maybe bought as 50% Damage Reduction; Must Make DEX Roll -½ or just as extra PD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Hmm, cost could be based on the "exert" basis... hey this could work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe I think I'd go with a Pres Atk "Hey I'm harmless, why not pull your punch?" RSR:Pres or Com......With the "Move" giving a bonus to Pres: only for that use....How about a Martial surrender? I've been joking about that sence before electricty......."AYyyyeeee...give up!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted May 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe "Abort to Martial Cringe" is a term one of our players came up with when an MA was about to get crunched and he'd already used his action. It's become a staple in our campaign now . Mentor used the term here in the "Your Gaming Group's Jargon" thread. If there was a "real" one I think it would be a martial Roll with the Punch. Maybe bought as 50% Damage Reduction; Must Make DEX Roll -½ or just as extra PD. Lemming mentioned that's where the martial cringe thing originated form - great term - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBug Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe I think I'd go with a Pres Atk "Hey I'm harmless' date=' why not pull your punch?" RSR:Pres or Com......With the "Move" giving a bonus to Pres: only for that use....How about a Martial surrender? I've been joking about that sence before electricty......."AYyyyeeee...give up!"[/quote'] Arthur (the Tick's Arthur) uses this one all the time, usually while yelling his mighty battle cry, "Not the face! Not the face!"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe I'm liking the idea of martial cringe, and martial PRE attacks in general. Actually, the first thing that came to mind was the guys in the civil rights movement who just took beatings without resisting, and in so doing forced into action the concience of the onlookers. A martial art move that could affect crowds. Cool. It needs a better name than 'Martial Cringe', though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted May 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe I'm liking the idea of martial cringe, and martial PRE attacks in general. Actually, the first thing that came to mind was the guys in the civil rights movement who just took beatings without resisting, and in so doing forced into action the concience of the onlookers. A martial art move that could affect crowds. Cool. It needs a better name than 'Martial Cringe', though. I like this idea as well, though it does indeed deserve a nobler name than "cringe". And Martial Passive Resistance is far too long a name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Martial Presence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe My first thought when I read the thread title was of Jackie Chan, grimacing and shaking his hand after a move goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe The context in which I always visualized was an all or nothing prayer, with an astronomical chance of success. Well maybe and 8 or less, with the resulting penalty of a negative Disad: Reputation-Wuss in the face of damage. Martial cringe was never something we visualized as being very heroic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe The context in which I always visualized was an all or nothing prayer' date=' with an astronomical chance of success. Well maybe and 8 or less, with the resulting penalty of a negative Disad: Reputation-Wuss in the face of damage. Martial cringe was never something we visualized as being very heroic. [/quote']In D&D characters taking damage (as in bleeding) was routine, but I still shake my head at the number of Champions players who absolutely freak when their PC takes BODY. There might be more lightly defended Champions characters out there than Zl'f, though probably not very many. But she takes BODY fairly often and keeps right on fighting without coming unglued. You know how often she's finished a battle with 3 STUN and 9 BODY left. That's the price of being a heroine. Getting hurt is heroic; whining about it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Hmm, if I recall +20 exert costs 6pts. A -2 DCV penalty would be appropriate and bring it down to 4pts. Would basing it on Block be inappropriate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Hmmm...I think martial cringe should definatley be an Abort move....Craven-Fu....Martial Cringe....Martial Surrender.....Martial Grovel....all with a Fixed Pres attack boosted by Exert...the Ultimate Toady martial art.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe UMA states that you may only abort into Blocks, Dodges and Escapes. Since a standard Martial Escape already boosts STR why not make Martial Cringe a variation of that manuever? Martial Escape +15 STR vs. Grabs cost= 4 points Martial Cringe -2 DCV +20 PRE vs. being attacked, Abort, DCV penalties last +1 phase You make a 'suprise' surrender which startles your attacker. +10 or +20 effect above target's EGO/PRE would be needed to cause the attacker to hesitate (either a half or full phase respectively). cost= 4 points Note, this manuever's success requires that the attacker has sufficient conscience to 'accept' a surrender and will probably only work once vs. any one opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe UMA states that you may only abort into Blocks, Dodges and Escapes. Since a standard Martial Escape already boosts STR why not make Martial Cringe a variation of that manuever? Martial Escape +15 STR vs. Grabs cost= 4 points Martial Cringe -2 DCV +20 PRE vs. being attacked, Abort, DCV penalties last +1 phase You make a 'suprise' surrender which startles your attacker. +10 or +20 effect above target's EGO/PRE would be needed to cause the attacker to hesitate (either a half or full phase respectively). cost= 4 points Note, this manuever's success requires that the attacker has sufficient conscience to 'accept' a surrender and will probably only work once vs. any one opponent. You can save points by applying two obvious Limitations to Martial Cringe: Incantations ("Don't hurt me! Please don't hurt me! Please...") and Gestures (Cover head with arms and cower). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe You can save points by applying two obvious Limitations to Martial Cringe: Incantations ("Don't hurt me! Please don't hurt me! Please...") and Gestures (Cover head with arms and cower). valid point edited Martial Cringe: Martial Cringe +20 PRE vs. being attacked, Abort, Incantations, Gestures *My only concern with this method is that it almost feels like double dipping since martial maneuvers already have optional distinctive rules. I would have thought Don't hurt me! and covering head with arms and cower would be part of the Presense attack that the cringe is adding to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe valid point edited Martial Cringe: Martial Cringe +20 PRE vs. being attacked, Abort, Incantations, Gestures *My only concern with this method is that it almost feels like double dipping since martial maneuvers already have optional distinctive rules. I would have thought Don't hurt me! and covering head with arms and cower would be part of the Presense attack that the cringe is adding to. I suppose it would only be reasonable for cowering and begging for mercy could be a hallmark of that particular martial maneuver. Perhaps a +2 to Analyze Style would be appropriate. Of course, geekdom already has a long-established term for cowardly surrender at the least hint of a threat: The Picard Maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe Of course' date=' geekdom already has a long-established term for cowardly surrender at the least hint of a threat: [i']The Picard Maneuver.[/i] So does The Kirk Maneuver bring Mentor or Mightybec to mind first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe I was reading through the maneuver creation rules in UMA trying to figure out how to build this maneuver. What basis should I use, and so forth. I eventually decided on Block, and then it hit me. Martial Block. That's it. That's your "martial cringe". You Abort and roll your OCV vs their OCV. If you succeed, the attack fails. If you fail, the attacker rolls to hit. The SFX is simply cowering in fear. If you want to make a complete custom maneuver, just switch all the DCV mods to OCV mods (kinda like an Offensive Block). The extra OCV could help you block several attackers by cringing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Re: Martial Cringe I was reading through the maneuver creation rules in UMA trying to figure out how to build this maneuver. What basis should I use, and so forth. I eventually decided on Block, and then it hit me. Martial Block. That's it. That's your "martial cringe". You Abort and roll your OCV vs their OCV. If you succeed, the attack fails. If you fail, the attacker rolls to hit. The SFX is simply cowering in fear. If you want to make a complete custom maneuver, just switch all the DCV mods to OCV mods (kinda like an Offensive Block). The extra OCV could help you block several attackers by cringing! Bah, logic's no fun... but true! Good interpretation. At some point I need to compile these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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