Greatest American Hero type character????

[GOmezy3k]

Just wondering, has anyone else used the Hero rules to create a character using the GAH character as a model. I came up with one that I am playing in a game. I got to thinking (not a good thing) that it seems like in most games, whenever a character is created and they either get super powers by accident or through mutation or a super gadget that gives them powers, they instantly know how to use them and are flying and fighting and are the typical boring Superhero.. I created a girl who got her powers through an accident and doesn't have a clue how to use them, she flys like a wobbly baby bird, she is an Acrophobic so she doesn't like to fly very high, she is always using too much or too little energy when she fights and about half the time she not only gets the bad guys but the good guys in the effects of her powers... It makes it much more interesting to play, and makes her more "human"... Can you imagine if you woke up one morning with super powers...could you jump into the air and fly gracfully and when throwing engery bolts always hit your target when you had never done it before? I don't think so... Its fun and it drives the other players who are playing typical superheros crazy because they have to deal with her human foibles and mistakes....

[Supreme]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

No, and I'll tell you why in a few sentences. First, the how. There are various ways of accomplishing this. The first thing that comes to my mind is to apply negative levels to everything. You could also try side effects explained as mis-fires. Though playing such a character is different, and somewhat interesting, the novelty wears off quick. The big problem with the character is that they can't do anything. If you only successfully hit your target every tenth time, it becomes a real pain in the tuckus. Part of the point of being in an RPG is that you have an effect on the world your character inhabits. Taking on all kinds of I-can't-use-my-powers-right disadvantages and what-not limits that severly. I suppose it might work if you were more powerful than the other players by a wide margin, and you spent your EPs taking away the negative levels. Still, that'd take a REALLY patient player.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

I usually RP the inexperience of my hero rather than try and use disads or limitations to show it. For example, a rough landing that has little game affect but probably looks funny (well it would if you could see it). Or a sudden energy blast that hits the target and leaves the PC standing there looking at his smoking hands thinking, "Wow. Did I do that?"

 

Then again, the best way to simulate such things is to have the GM control the character sheet so the player must learn as he goes. I'm in a game now that's doing that, and while much more serious than GAH it's still a lot of fun when we learn something new.

[Kirby]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

Somewhat. I had a PC in a game where the GM created our powers. We were in a post-victorious Genocide campaign where somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of the world's population had been eliminated. The three players each had a teenage character that we could design (50 or 75 points) and then the GM rolled our powers (from the Mutant File) and we slowly discovered them. In this game, the GM somewhat dragged his feet on us, making the game more of exploring our "base" than going outside and doing things. We were being trained/helped by the anonymous old guy, but the pacing was too slow. While the concept that we would learn our powers over a game year's time was understandable, the GM (normally very good) almost made us role-play every day. That game bombed.

 

In a different short-run game, another GM made one where we were four college kids that got abducted into a DEMON plot that went awry (of course!). The four of us turned into the four basic elementals and discovered our powers quickly. (Punching a Demon agent when you're an earth elemental and being told to roll 18 dice for damage helps.) This game we the players really enjoyed, but unfortunately the GM was running too many games for his plate (three Champions, one White Wolf, two D&D, and one anime-type game that I can recall off-hand) and so he eliminated all but three games (one each of Champions, D&D, and White Wolf).

 

I think the potential is there for a good game, you just have to make sure you don't dwell on the newness of being a super too long.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

Somewhat. I had a PC in a game where the GM created our powers. We were in a post-victorious Genocide campaign where somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of the world's population had been eliminated. The three players each had a teenage character that we could design (50 or 75 points) and then the GM rolled our powers (from the Mutant File) and we slowly discovered them. In this game' date=' the GM somewhat dragged his feet on us, making the game more of exploring our "base" than going outside and doing things. We were being trained/helped by the anonymous old guy, but the pacing was too slow. While the concept that we would learn our powers over a game year's time was understandable, the GM (normally very good) almost made us role-play every day. That game bombed.[/quote']

Either I was that GM or I've just managed to run an identical campaign at some point.

 

I've never liked the idea of a character having unpredictable or unskilled use of his primary abilities in a standard game. It's not heroic to be a bumbling idiot with your powers. Funny, sure, and it's great for a funny goof-off type of game. But not for anything more serious. Can you imagine if the JLA weren't skilled using their powers? It's be funny, but get quickly boring if Superman and the Flash always ran into walls, GL kept flicking his ring to make sure it was working and every other batarang Batman threw out fell apart.

[matthewcelis]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

Either I was that GM or I've just managed to run an identical campaign at some point.

 

I've never liked the idea of a character having unpredictable or unskilled use of his primary abilities in a standard game. It's not heroic to be a bumbling idiot with your powers. Funny, sure, and it's great for a funny goof-off type of game. But not for anything more serious. Can you imagine if the JLA weren't skilled using their powers? It's be funny, but get quickly boring if Superman and the Flash always ran into walls, GL kept flicking his ring to make sure it was working and every other batarang Batman threw out fell apart.

 

The JLA aren't skilled in using their powers. That's why they need a whole team to solve problems that Superman should be able to solve on his own if he used his powers with any intelligence. Flash stands around talking when he could just go back in time and eliminate the threat before it even arrived. And so on.

[Clonus]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

The JLA aren't skilled in using their powers. That's why they need a whole team to solve problems that Superman should be able to solve on his own if he used his powers with any intelligence. Flash stands around talking when he could just go back in time and eliminate the threat before it even arrived. And so on.

 

Time travel is no way to solve your problems. Many, many issues have been dedicated to the theme that the use of time travel doesn't fix any of your problems (outside of finding a new and more fun place to live.)

[Christopher]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

The JLA aren't skilled in using their powers.[...] Flash stands around talking when he could just go back in time and eliminate the threat before it even arrived. And so on.

Using your time travel ability every time you forgot to fill your fridge in is perhaps the most unskilled, stupid and reckless thing you can do. Asuming your ability even works on a sufficiently small timescale (like a few hours).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

The JLA aren't skilled in using their powers. That's why they need a whole team to solve problems that Superman should be able to solve on his own if he used his powers with any intelligence. Flash stands around talking when he could just go back in time and eliminate the threat before it even arrived. And so on.

 

Once Flash breaks the speed of light and starts time traveling he has very little control over how far he goes and sometimes can't even control which direction unless he uses that stupid "temporal treadmill" thing or whatever it was called.

 

I suppose having one really perfect, really boring character with no foibles solve everything would be one option. Sound, well, really boring.

[matthewcelis]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

Once Flash breaks the speed of light and starts time traveling he has very little control over how far he goes and sometimes can't even control which direction unless he uses that stupid "temporal treadmill" thing or whatever it was called.

 

I suppose having one really perfect, really boring character with no foibles solve everything would be one option. Sound, well, really boring.

 

I guess you've never read Flash comics then because he can easily control where he goes and what direction he travels. Maybe you only read new comics. They suck.

[matthewcelis]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

I suppose having one really perfect, really boring character with no foibles solve everything would be one option. Sound, well, really boring.

 

So you're saying Superman SHOULDN'T use his powers intelligently because that would be boring. Or maybe you just need a better writer than you're used to who can make a good story and still have a character live up to his abilities. You have low expectations, it seems.

 

Also, you seem to confuse intelligent use of powers with "having no foibles." Not so. Totally different subject. Don't try to conflate them into a package deal just so you can pretend you thought it over when really you're just giving a kneejerk response and picking out 1 part of what I actually wrote. Think. It helps! Or would that go against your apparent belief that powers shouldn't be used intelligently?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

I guess you've never read Flash comics then because he can easily control where he goes and what direction he travels. Maybe you only read new comics. They suck.

 

I'm pretty sure the treadmill was Silver Age cheese that for some reason stayed in continuity for quite a while. It was 80's at the latest. I guess if you consider 2 decade old comics "new"...

[Greywind]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

No, the issue that defines "stupid" is the armchair superhero that has days to reflect on the story and says "this would have been the best way to deal with it..." instead of literally having milliseconds to make that monumental decision then living with the consequences.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

So you're saying Superman SHOULDN'T use his powers intelligently because that would be boring. Or maybe you just need a better writer than you're used to who can make a good story and still have a character live up to his abilities. You have low expectations, it seems.

 

Also, you seem to confuse intelligent use of powers with "having no foibles." Not so. Totally different subject. Don't try to conflate them into a package deal just so you can pretend you thought it over when really you're just giving a kneejerk response and picking out 1 part of what I actually wrote. Think. It helps! Or would that go against your apparent belief that powers shouldn't be used intelligently?

 

If you think Flash solving every problem with time travel (which you yourself suggested) is good writing I don't think we can agree.

While my response may have over generalized, your's was down right rude, implying that I don't think, making incorrect assumptions about my point of view to bolster your point, and basically being condesending. Not everyone on the internet is always going to agree with you but you could at least pretend t be civil.

[Folded]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

Just wondering' date=' has anyone else used the Hero rules to create a character using the GAH character as a model. I came up with one that I am playing in a game. I got to thinking (not a good thing) that it seems like in most games, whenever a character is created and they either get super powers by accident or through mutation or a super gadget that gives them powers, they instantly know how to use them and are flying and fighting and are the typical boring Superhero.. I created a girl who got her powers through an accident and doesn't have a clue how to use them, she flys like a wobbly baby bird, she is an Acrophobic so she doesn't like to fly very high, she is always using too much or too little energy when she fights and about half the time she not only gets the bad guys but the good guys in the effects of her powers... It makes it much more interesting to play, and makes her more "human"... Can you imagine if you woke up one morning with super powers...could you jump into the air and fly gracfully and when throwing engery bolts always hit your target when you had never done it before? I don't think so... Its fun and it drives the other players who are playing typical superheros crazy because they have to deal with her human foibles and mistakes....[/quote']

 

I always assume a background which includes some time to learn the basics of one's powers. Not necessarily a lot, but enough to avoid the truly dangerous possibilities. It can be an interesting flavor if everyone is on board, but the pace of advancement in Hero is generally slow enough that a single player using this kind of limitation is just going to incur more wrath than they avoid. Once or twice can be both fun and funny, but the tenth adventure killed by the 'oops' factor tends to spell the end.

[ErikModi]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

A lot of modern superhero fiction focuses on the "learning curve" involved when a character gains superpowers. The Marvel Ultimate comics early issues tend to focus a lot on the "what the heck" factor, as the characters get used to what they can do, and find their limits and capabilities. I especially remember in Ultimate X-Men, how the mutants just start really getting good with their powers, and then Bishop comes along and convinces them to push the limits of what they can do (for example, convincing Dazzler that, if she can detonate air molecules to create her light and noise shows, why can't she detonate something bigger, like, say, a Sentinel's head?)

 

The modern run of superhero movie has really explored this idea. Watch the first few web-swinging sequences in Spider-Man for probably the earliest example, and almost all of Iron Man is about Tony Stark figuring out, testing, and refining the capabilities of his suit. Likewise for Batman Begins, as Bruce discovers new things he needs to be capable of doing, and looks for a solution. Even up into The Dark Knight, he's still refining the capabilities of his Bat-Gear. Even Captain America had to adjust a bit when he's suddenly called upon to use his brand-new superpowers. To expand the idea to television, Clark Kent was discovering new superpowers almost through all ten years of Smallville. It's rare these days for the a new superhero to be able to use his or her powers perfectly right out of the gate, and if they can, there's usually an explanation. . . for instance, Thor had been smiting foes for over a thousand years, so he's pretty darn good at it.

 

However, I agree that representing these problems as actual limitations with severe effects on gameplay can be a bad idea. Unless the theme of the campaign is about learning to use the powers properly, and the GM is working with all the characters to make using, learning, and buying off said limitations fun, it could be disastrous.

 

There are two other options on how to work this theme into a campaign where it is not a central ideal, however. The first is, as was suggested before, do it through role-playing. Experiment with your character's different attacks and powers, even in situations where they may be less than ideal. Describe your character looking shocked when a power works exceptionally well (or exceptionally poorly.) Be creative with it.

 

The other is to assume that the stock powers you start with are the "basics," and as your character gains experience, he either learns how to use them more effectively or they "evolve" into more powerful abilities. This also requires role-playing, but you can easily start off a session with your character excitedly exclaiming "Look what I just learned how to do!" and demonstrating a new ability that he's either just developed or just figured out about.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

My recommendation:

 

Don't make the character completely inept, but you can put some "Requires a Roll" or other limitations to reflect a Hero who isn't 100% sure of her own powers.

 

I would recommend making all the powers be multi-part. One base-level power (say, +25 STR) then one or more additional levels that only activate if the character makes the roll (I would recommend an EGO Roll at the normal -1 per 10 AP)

 

That way, they have their basic abilities and aren't totally inept when they fail the rolls or don't meet the conditions of the limitations you select to represent the unreliability of their abilities, but can truly shine when they do make the rolls.

 

And yes, XP should then be spent to slowly buy off the limitations as the Hero learns to control their powers and have confidence in them.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

 

And yes, XP should then be spent to slowly buy off the limitations as the Hero learns to control their powers and have confidence in them.

 

Alternately, don't spend all your initial points. Build the character at full points, then apply the various limitations without spending those points, sandbagging them so you can remove the limitations more quickly than just with your regular XP garnering.

[Martin2]

Re: Greatest American Hero type character????

 

One possibly for the GM could be a "joint accident" for the group. Everyone gets to write up their background and selects a possible power SFX and starts off with half their character build in points in background skills and perks etc and only one or two powers with lots of requires a roll and disadvantages that the GM decides on.

 

The idea being that everyone expeirences a Fantastic Four experiment or a Demon experiment where everyone gets powers of some sort but they do not know about it.

 

The first session starts with this basic character not knowing his character powers and only his base stats and the knowledge that he has before the accident. At the end of the first session they can spend a lot of "experience" buying off any disadvantages or developing more powers. This continues after each session and after a few sessions the character will get to the starting point of the campaign.

 

This would be a good team building exercise with the possibility of each character building a complimentry set of powers to his team mates over time. Instead of having a lot of players building heroes with no knowledge of each other (but infact the group has a Brick character an energy manipulator etc and all mysteriously have powers that work together).

 

A bit like the Fantastic Four film etc