Star Trek-type shields?

[Trebuchet]

I'm looking for a way to simulate the shields from Star Trek. These protect completely from small attacks (Say less than 4d6 RKA), but bigger attacks begin to batter through the shields a bit at a time ("Forward shields now at only 62%, Captain!") until they fail completely. And it takes time to repair/get them up again.

 

Ablative seems a probable method for the wearing away part, but how to simulate the other portions? Suggestions?

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Force field and extra BODY; the force field protects from small attacks while the BODY represents the "shields at x%". The main ship's BODY doesn't start going until all shield BODY is down. Put a Limitation on the force field 'Not available when shield BODY is zero'. Add in some Regeneration with appropriate timing for repair.

[Geryon]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

I think I would just buy FF with the "Ablative" limitation and buy it high enough so that 4d6 RKAs don't typically do enough damage to get through the FF. If the stun or body doesn't exceed your PD/ED, the ablative doesn't come into play. This is like the smaller weapons which don't hurt the ship. If it does exceed your pd/ed, then the ablative comes into play. This is when the "shields at 62% captain" comes in after getting hit by the big weapon.

 

So, IMHO, straight up FF with ablative limitation should cover it if you buy enough ED with it. I'm not sure what else you need to simulate, except perhaps shield repairs, and you could do that with a "requires an engineering skill roll to repair". I think Ablative even talks about this, and refers you to the entry on charges to look at some options... But I don't recall and don't have my book in front of me.

 

If you go with SCUBA's Body route, which I think would also work, you might want to buy the BODY with the limiter "Only vs. Energy Damage" if thats how your shields work.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Here's an odd mechanic that been suggested on the boards before (and I really like).

 

In addition to the simple Force Field that bounces small stuff and reduces the big stuff...

 

Just plain and simple BODY, Costs END, OIF Shield Generator. Then, later, to repair the shields, it's just Regeneration (with Extra Time), Only Vs. Shield BODY.

 

Some weapons are just designed to bash/negate/drain shields. These are usually bought as extra damage only vs. Shields BODY.

 

Primative weapons are considered doing half or zero damage against an opponent with working shields. This is a limitation on primative weapons.

 

EDIT: Hmm, I've been beaten to the punch. Must learn to type faster.

[McCoy]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Been thinking about this off and on.

 

Not sure how legal this would be, but thought of nested force walls, first one must be knocked down before the second can be attacked, etc. Seems like in TOS the shields came down in 10% increments. So if there are ten force walls, and the outer three have been knocked down "Shields at 70%, Captain."

[Outsider]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

They can also be 'reinforced' by diverting more of the ship's energy to the endangered shield.

 

The second ablative option, the one where any attack that could -theoretically- get damage past the defence acts to ablate 5 active points from the defence, seems to be the one to go with. On top of that maybe buy significantly more Forcefield power with a steep "Increased END cost", such that, if the ship is to use it, it needs to divert power from some other system, but doing so really hampers the operation of the ship in other areas (weapons and movement, for example).

 

Example :

 

18 (50) Forcefield 25/25 (5 END/Phase OR 1 END per 5/5 of Shielding)

______(-1) Ablative

______(-1/4) Does not work in certian astronomical conditions (Nebulae, etc)

______(-1/2) Limited Arc of Coverage (60 degrees)

______(-0) Requires Skill Roll (Shield Operations, No Active Point Modifiers)

 

Plus

 

7 (50) Forcefield 25/25 (50 END/Phase (or 2 END per 1/1 of Shielding)

______(-4) Increased END cost (10x END)

______(-1/2) Limited Arc of Coverage (60 degrees)

______(-1/2) Added portion may not be larger than original portion

______(-1/4) Does not work in certian astronomical conditions (Nebulae, etc)

______(-1/2) Requires a Skill Roll (Sheild Operations, -1 per 10 Active)

 

 

So.. Basic shields do not ablate to attacks of less than 4 1/2 D6. IF they are attacked by a 4 1/2 D6+ attack, each such attack (or each such phase in which an attack occurs?) will reduce the Value of the Shields by 2.5/2.5 (2/2, then 3/3, then 2/2, the 3/3, etc) Anyone with even basic knowledge of how to operate starship shields can turn them on and get their basic effect. A skilled operator can divert massive amounts of power into the shields temporarily to greatly increase their ability to prevent damage, though this will not prevent the shield's degradation.

 

 

Edit : Pay +15 points, and get 8 copies of this power, one to each hex side facing, plus maybe a top/bottom.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Perhaps it could be done simply by reversing the usual Star Hero convention of putting ablative defenses outside non-ablative defenses??

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Not sure if I would go ablative.

 

 

I would put a special limitation on it, saying that for every body that gets past the FF, causes the FF to drop by one.

 

Then buy an Aid, to restore the fF to orginal strength, depednent on a skill roll.

 

 

As a side not, the original trek seemed to have ed only FF, in the New stuff they became pd and ed.

[McCoy]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

As a side not' date=' the original trek seemed to have ed only FF, in the New stuff they became pd and ed.[/quote']

What makes you say that?

 

Don't recall physical objects geting through on TOS, and think they had to lower the shields to dock shuttlecraft.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

When this was discussed before, I seem to recall someone suggesting a Self-Only Entangle that doesn't limit movement or use of foci (weapons).

 

The DEF of the Entangle protects against "small" attacks.

 

The BODY of the Entangle gets chipped away by larger attacks until it's gone (the shields fail).

 

You can use the Standard Effect Rule so that full-strength shields are always the same strength; this also makes it easy to say "Hmm...the shields have 27 BODY left out of 100 total...'Captain! The shields are down to 27%! We can't stand another hit like that!!!' "

 

Reinforcing the shields by diverting power from other systems can be done by using an additional Entangle with the Costs END to Maintain limitation to "buff up" the Entangle that's already there.

 

Regenerating/repairing the shields can be done just by hitting the ship with the Entangle repeatedly...since each extra Entangle beyond the first just adds 1 BODY to the total, in effect building the shields back up. Do that takes time, though, so it's not something you'd do in combat.

 

Thoughts?

[James Gillen]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

I was considering this subject with regard to the ships listed in Terran Empire (our main 5th Edition point of comparison).

 

Even with 10d6 RKAs, it'd be kind of hard for ships to pierce enemy defenses given the level of defenses given to each ship, which in many cases includes a 'reinforced hull' defined as extra Armor with Ablative.

This might serve to simulate the Strek FF, but having Armor take damage before the Force Field seems counterintuitive to me.

 

An idea I had to make these ships more Trek-like (and to make it possible to do any damage to them at all) is to take that Ablative armor, add half that DEF to the Force Field, and make the entire Force Field Ablative.

 

Thus (for example) an Imperial Navy Empress class has 20 DEF basic, 14 DEF Hull Force Field, 23 DEF Force Field (ablative), 18 DEF Hull Armor and 36 DEF Ablative. In this system, you'd add the 18 and 36 DEF Armor (54) cut in half (27), add to the 23 DEF Force Field and get a 50 DEF Force Field (Ablative) plus the basic Hull Force Field of 14 DEF and the Vehicle DEF of 20.

 

JG

[Spence]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Interesting but how would you model the "leaky shield" part. You know "Sheilds at 62% Captain, minor damage to deck 3 and 5 with a hull breach on 7".......

[LordGhee]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

a FF with damage reduction. Ablative when damage pen ff.

 

lord Ghee

[James Gillen]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Interesting but how would you model the "leaky shield" part. You know "Sheilds at 62% Captain' date=' minor damage to deck 3 and 5 with a hull breach on 7".......[/quote']

 

That's kind of how Ablative works.

FRED, pp. 77-78: "At the -1 value, if the STUN or BODY damage done by an attack exceeds the Ablative Defense, the Ablative Defense acquires an Activation Roll of 15-. Each time an attack exceeds the Ablative Defense thereafter, the Activation Roll drops by one (14-, 13-, 12-, 11-, 10-, 9-, 8-, gone). At the -1/2 level, the Ablative Defense is only reduced if the BODY damage of an attack exceeds it. [Which is what you'd need for a Vehicle.]

"Every time an attack hits, the character makes the Ablative Defense Activation Roll. If he succeeds, the Ablative Defense affects the attack. IF he fails the Activation Roll, the Ablative Defense doesn't affect the attack (and the Activation Roll does not drop regardless of how much damage the character takes)."

 

Emphasis mine.

 

JG

[Metaphysician]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

In Star Hero, IIRC, they specifically mention that for sci-fi genre, force fields are applied before armor, even ablative armor.

[JmOz]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Take it for what it is worth:

 

FF 20/20 Alblative (Body only, 5 point Option)

 

Then in violation of almost EVERY RULE IN THE GAME

 

Auxilery Power MP 30 points

+10/10 FF 0 end

+15" Flight

+20 Sensors

+30 points worth of FTL

etc...

 

Essentialy the MP is filled with multi slots, under normal circumstances there is a "Default setting" but when they to they can "Rerought auxilery power" to XYZ

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

another approach that might help .?!

 

change the basic construction of the shields as follows:

 

• create a minimum level with continuous charges
  
• make these boostable
  
• have the boostable part have much a much shorter duration than the default/base level. (I think this lines up more with what I remember about shields in Starfleet Battles too).
  

But I am not sure if there is way to tie this into ablative/per hit reduction or not (rules not in front of me..)

 

just my 4 yen...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

There are several suggestions along this general line in the "Help me build a force field" thread up in the Hero System topic. For example (this is one of mine):

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=388989&postcount=27

 

You might find reading that thread worthwhile.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Wow...I really like Blue Joggers additional Body idea! Man...I might actually change some things in my game...hum...nice!

 

Here is what I am doing now. I created a couple of new modifiers:

 

[NOTE that all of this can be found in the campaign doc found on my site.]

 

7.10.7.2 Fragmenting Defense

This is a new limitation that can be taken on defensive powers. It is used to reflect a defense that chips away as it is struck. In essence this is a very specific form of the Side Effect limitation. I got the idea from an article in Digital Hero and modified it to suit my needs.

 

Fragmenting is a base -1 limitation. When struck a fragmenting defense loses 1 point of PD or ED based on the attack type. For every point of Body done that exceeds the defenses given by the power an additional point of PD or ED must be removed. The adjustment in the defense is done after the effects of the damage are applied. Here is a brief example. An energy attack that does 8 Body hits a 10 PD/10 ED Force Field. No Body gets through and the target gets to use the full 10 ED for soaking the damage. After the attack the Force Field is considers 10 PD/9 ED. If the attack did 12 Body the resulting Force Field would be 10 PD/7 ED.

 

At the end of each turn the power recovers 1 point of PD or ED. The recovery rate can be changed by moving up or down the time chart. For each move up the chart a -1/4 additional limitation is granted. For each move down the chart a +1/4 move is made in the value of the limitation.

 

and

 

7.10.6.1 Adjustable Defense

This is a new advantage for defensive powers. Like Fragmenting Defense I got the idea from a Digital Hero article then tweaked it a bit. Here is how it works.

7.10.6.1.1 Adjustable Defense

For a +1/2 advantage on a defensive power the user may spend a half phase to move up to half of the points in a given defense from PD to ED or from ED to PD. For example, if a user has a 10 PD/10 ED Force Field they could move 5 of the PD to ED. This would give them shield a 5 PD/15 ED Force Field.

7.10.6.1.2 Faceable Defense

On defenses which are defined as having multiple facings the advantage can be applied for at a +1/4 level. In this case the user can spend a half phase and move the defense gained from one power to another power which is protecting a different facing. Up to half of the given points may be moved in this fashion. This is used to mimic star ship shields which can be adjusted from one facing to another. For example, a star ship has 20 ED shields on four facings (i.e. front, left, right, rear). By spending a half phase a user could make the front facing 30 ED and the rear facing 10 ED.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Here's how I'm now looking at doing it based on these suggestions:

 

A smallish (20 DEF and about 20 BODY) Force Wall which will totally protect from minor hits. Once collapsed the Force Wall cannot be (re)activated until the Force Field below is at full strength. (Probably a turn, or even more if repairs are needed)

 

Inside the Force Wall is an Ablative Force Field with about 100 PD/ED. I'll use the "chip away" version rather than the reduced activation version.

 

Inside all that will probably be about 20 points of Armor to represent the actual hull of the ship.

 

Of course, enemy starships with 8 - 15d6 RKA attacks will chop through all this fairly easily with just a few hits, which is what I wanted. Since the ship will probably be totally unarmed, I'll leave it to the heroes onboard to provide the offensive firepower.

 

Comments?

[James Gillen]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Yeah, but I don't like to use Force Wall as (strictly) you can't attack out of it either.

 

JG

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

Well, you could always use the Indirect Advantage and have the attack originate outside the Force Wall, with the special effect being that the weapons tuned to the proper frequency can pass through (fire out from inside) the Force Wall...

[Trebuchet]

Re: Star Trek-type shields?

 

In the end I went with Blue Jogger's suggestion:

 

Force Field: FF (20 PD/20 ED/5 Power Defense/5 Flash Defense: Radio Group/10 Flash Defense: Sight Group), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Hardened (x2; +1/2) (105 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1) (uses END Reserve)

 

Defensive Shields: +100 BODY; OIF Bulky (-1), Costs END (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) (uses END Reserve)

 

Repair Systems: Healing 5 BODY (50 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), OIF Bulky (-1), Self Only (-1/2) (uses END Reserve)

 

I think it works best without bending the rules, and 2 to 4 solid hits from a warship will blow through the defenses.