Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

[Ben Seeman]

All the characters, skills and equipment for Dark Champions is now available in Hero Designer format in the Online Store for only $7.99!

 

Enjoy!

[Blue]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

If only it would let me buy it!

 

Seems the online store is giving me heck this morning. After transmitting the required payment information, the progress bar stalled just short of halfway. After ten minutes I finally closed the browser because it was going nowhere. No e-mail confrimation for download showed up after another fifteen so I decided it hadn't gone through, went back to the site and it stalls now when I click on the "check out" button.

 

Just seems to be compnetco. I'll try again later.

[wylodmayer]

What a worthless bunch of...

 

"Does not include guns or guns accessories"????

 

What the f*** am I paying 7.99 for?

 

No thanks. That's like offering the Conquerers, Killers and Crooks pack with a disclaimer that says "does not include any actual characters."

[GamePhil]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Characters, Super-Skills, general equipment, and all of the Packages.

 

Not trying to talk anyone into it, just answering the question, "What am I paying $7.99 for?"

[cndblank]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Well no guns in the Dark Champions Character Pack is a major turn off.

 

It is like having Fantasy Hero with no weapons or magic.

 

However they really need to do Heroic Equipment in a more user friendly format.

 

I really don't need to see the set of rifle limitations repeated again and again.

 

Better would be a simple one line with the damage, the OCV and RMOD, the Str Min, the magazine size, and the price.

 

Something you could stack together on a character sheet and form a weapons chart for the character.

 

I don't understand why they don't have some fans do them for some free product.

[cndblank]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I can understand the point about all the work need to list all the firearms in to the Dark Champions Character Pack.

 

But what are we supposed to arm our PCs and NPCs with? Typing in each weapon will get old fast. Plus we have already been spoiled with how fast Hero Designer creates a Character or NPC.

 

The other problem is that we really only need what the weapon DOES and NOT how it is bought.

 

My thoughts on fixing this is create a Hero Designer Weapons Pack for Heroic Campaigns.

 

But instead of listing how each weapon is bought in HD, create a custom power with the weapon name in the name field and then cut and paste the information from the weapon chart in to the display. It would be fast and very useful.

 

It would look like this:

 

Atchisson Assault: 12 +0 +0 2½d6 1d6 20 13 +6 140/31 5.20 2H, AF5, LR(50â€)

Colt M1911/M1911A1 .45 ACP +1 +0 2d6-1 1d6 7 9 +2 39/10 1.10

 

That way the GM can look at the sheet and figure out what the weapon his NPC is using does. Players would also find this useful for listing their weapons. And while it isn’t pretty, most Hero players would have no problem reading it.

 

Better would be removing the some of the unnecessary info. Perhaps with a column list and a little formatting.

 

 

Weapon O/R Dam StX Rd SM P

Atchisson Assault: +0/+0 2½d6 1d6 20 13 +6 2H, AF5, LR(50â€)

Colt M1911: +1/+0 2d6-1 1d6 7 9 +2

 

Listing the Real Cost (Perhaps in the Base Cost of the Custom Powers) would be REALLY good for those using Resource points.

 

To make it really useful for Heroic Campaigns adding the price (at least a rough one) and the mass to the equipment section of the Custom Power.

 

For the Atchisson Assault the equipment info that would be:

Base Cost 31

Mass 5.2

Price 4000

 

Most GM’s do not have access to the weapons in electronic format (there are advantages to be a playtester), so they can’t just cut and paste everything in to their PC and NPC. They have to enter the weapons stats by hand. And in a Gun happy game like Dark Champions that is going to take a lot of time. Plus why should each GM have to invent the wheel when they could get it straight from the Source?

 

Either format would be a lot faster than creating each weapon in HD and more useful besides. I know I’d slap down eight or nine dollar for a Hero Designer Pack like this.

 

What do you guys think?

[wylodmayer]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Characters, Super-Skills, general equipment, and all of the Packages.

 

Not trying to talk anyone into it, just answering the question, "What am I paying $7.99 for?"

 

But, and this is the important bit, GUNS ARE IMPORTANT TO DARK CHAMPIONS.

 

I defy anyone to explain to me how they aren't important to creating Dark Champions characters; even if not all Dark Champions characters wield guns, it's pretty durned hard to get through even a small party of DC characters without running into at least ONE who does use a gun. And if we take the more recent stance that Dark Champions encompasses such things as crime dramas, spy games, etc, then the ratio of gun wielders to non-gun wielders jumps even higher.

 

I agree with cndblank - it would be like having Fantasy Hero without magic. It's just freakin' ridiculous. In fact, I would stipulate that the widespread use of guns by the protagonists is one of the major "cosmetic" distinguishing features that marks Dark Champions from other genres. Besides, if the guns aren't important, then explain to me why so much space and text in the Dark Champions book were devoted to rules concerning them?

 

Of all the things in the DC book, it is the guns that required the most space for explanation and rules constructions; it is the guns that have the most intricate power builds... which means that it would be the guns that would be most useful to have in Hero Designer!! Whoever made the f**king genius decision to leave the guns out of the Dark Champions pack for Hero Designer would have probably come up with the idea to publish Playboy without any pictures of women.

 

J***s C****t. I am used to a high standard of content from Hero. This is a bizarre and frankly inexcusable oversight. I am not only not going to buy the Dark Champions character pack until it includes the guns, but I will discourage others from doing so as well; I will also boycott any further Hero Designer pack purchases and discourage my friends likewise.

[Vanguard]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Ok, first off you're being majorly rude.

 

Second, when the character pack first came out, Steve told us why the guns weren't included. It had something to do with the fact that the people that are getting paid to do the HD prefabs aren't getting paid a lot, not nearly enough for them to sit down and enter ALL the weapons, ammo types, etc.

 

If you're SO fired up about having them in there. Log your happy arse onto the computer and input them in yourself and then send them to Steve and get paid for them.

 

Now, was I a bit disappointed that the guns weren't included, yes. Did I still by the Character Pack, yes. Why? Because it's still worth the $7.99 for all the other stuff in there. Think about it, you've got ALL the prefabs for the various packages in there. All the info for all the Super Skills, etc. It's worth it. If they had included the guns it would've been more then the 7.99 and then you'd've been whining and complaining about the fact that it was so expensive.

 

I, frankly, don't see why you're making such a big deal and such a fuss about. Not including the guns in the character pack doesn't do anything to diminish the quality of the products Hero puts out. The HD Prefabs are there just as a "bene" for those of us that have the program. And, if you'll look, you'll probably find out that the people that are producing the packs AREN'T Hero employees. (well, not really). Theyr'e doing Steve and the rest of herodom a favor and saving us lots of time. They do get paid for it but not gobs and gobs of money. I don't think I have to go into the trickle down effect.

 

Also, you've got to look at it from yet another point of view. If they DID include the guns, then that right there is a good porting of the book, as you have stated and as such, they'd probably have to charge about what they were charging for CCC since once you got the pack you wouldn't really need the book.

[Steve Long]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Also, you've got to look at it from yet another point of view. If they DID include the guns, then that right there is a good porting of the book, as you have stated and as such, they'd probably have to charge about what they were charging for CCC since once you got the pack you wouldn't really need the book.

 

Exactly. Even if I were willing to ask GamePhil or whoever to do the work, the guns are too major a part of the value of the book. We'd have to increase the cost of the DCCP to $34.99 if the guns were included. Otherwise the Character Pack would be too attractive a purchase as compared to the book -- and ultimately we stay in business because we sell books, not Character Packs.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

So, is there any chance of a "weapons" pack for the various Weapons that have been left out? That would be worth the 30.00 charge to have the Swords, Guns, etc. in one pack...

[Steve Long]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I'll give that some thought, but if we did it I'm not sure what we'd set the price at. $30 would certainly be a minimum.

[cndblank]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I agree, there is no reason to be rude about it.

 

I would love a Heroic GEAR book. Some thing with various weapons, melee weapons, armor, and gear in a one liner Equipment/Weapon Chart format with price, mass, and real points.

 

I could even see spending $30 on it.

 

I don't know about a pack that was just the various weapons written up in the Powers section. I would want something I and my players would find readable when we are looking at the character sheets.

 

And I'm speaking from experience. I wrote up a Fading Suns Hero conversion. Had all the Occult, weapons and armor bought as powers so I could do complete HD character sheets for them.

 

My players hated the layout and the fact that each character sheet was several pages long. They wanted a clean and simple equipment list without all the standard weapon and armor limitations repeated again and again.

 

However having a prefab with all the gear I need in a compact readable format would be worth a lot when I'm finishing up the opposition the night before the game.

[Steve Long]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I would love a Heroic GEAR book. Some thing with various weapons, melee weapons, armor, and gear in a one liner Equipment/Weapon Chart format with price, mass, and real points.

 

Hmmm. That's certainly worth considering, though at this stage it would mostly be reprinted material from other books, and I'm not sure how attractive that sort of product would be to the average potential consumer. But I'll give it some thought.

[cndblank]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Just to be clear, I meant a Hero Designer Pack rather than a book (I thought I had changed that part of the post! ).

 

Something compact and readable for the Hero Designer GM to quickly outfit new PCs and NPCs with Gear in Hero Designer Character Sheets and Combat Records.

 

And using a cut and paste from the various weapon/armor charts would mean it could be put together in a reasonable time frame.

 

Thanks!

[wylodmayer]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

First of all, if I offended anyone, I apologize.

 

However, let me be clear that I still do not see the point in releasing a Dark Champions HD pack without the guns. Even if it cost much more to buy with the guns, I would have rather paid more - and waited longer - to get it with the stuff I need. Once again, I have to come back to the point that the guns are important to the genre. If they weren't, Steve et al would not have spent so much space on them in the book. And they are also complex; just the sort of thing we need HD packs for. I'm not trying to diss the other stuff in the Dark Champions pack; however, there is simply no way around the fact that leaving the guns out means the omission of a major chunk of the game data included in the Dark Champions book. This is unprecedented in previous HD pack releases, and I definitely don't want to see it become a trend.

 

As for doing it myself, I would have thought it would be obvious that the whole reason that I am upset that the guns weren't included was that I don't *want* to type in the data myself... I'm perfectly *capable* of it, I'm just more than willing to pay for the convenience of not doing so. I mean, that's really the whole philosophy behind the HD packs anyway, isn't it? The classic money-for-time trade-off. I have the former, I have less of the latter; ergo, it makes sense, for me at any rate, to be willing to trade from one to the other.

 

I don't want anyone to come to the mistaken belief that I don't like Steve or Hero or the Hero Designer guys. But neither do I want anyone to come to the mistaken belief that I have no problem with the Dark Champions pack for HD. It's not rude; it's business. I think the product is deficient, and I won't buy it. I will encourage other people not to buy it. That's the way business works. It's the only way that people outside the company's structure have of influencing internal corporate decisions. Businesses listen with their balance sheets. Nothing personal.

[Steve Long]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I think the product is deficient, and I won't buy it. I will encourage other people not to buy it.

 

You're well within your rights to do so, and I'd be the last one to say otherwise. I think your opinion about the product is dead wrong, but as a consumer you're entitled to hold it.

 

guns are important to the genre

 

Absolutely. As I explained, that's why they're not in there -- we want you to buy the book to get them. You might be willing to pay $34.99 for a Character Pack with guns, but it's our opinion that more consumers would prefer the $7.99 deal without them.

 

We want customers to buy the book to obtain the gun information. We stay in business by selling books, not Character Packs. If the Character Packs start to become preferable to the books, we're not long for this world.

 

This is unprecedented in previous HD pack releases

 

That's not correct. Unless the contractor violated my explicit instructions, the FH Character Pack doesn't include the weapons from that book, either, for the exact same reasons. And the same will apply to every other genre book we do, unless we have a good reason to do otherwise.

[Cpt.Storm]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Hmmm. That's certainly worth considering' date=' though at this stage it would mostly be reprinted material from other books, and I'm not sure how attractive that sort of product would be to the average potential consumer. But I'll give it some thought. [/quote']

Steve,

 

Please do consider this. Even though it may be a rehash of previously published material, I think it would be awesome to have one source to turn to for equipment choices.

 

Just my opinion but I suspect I'm not alone.

 

Thanks,

 

Cpt. Storm

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Hmmm. That's certainly worth considering' date=' though at this stage it would mostly be reprinted material from other books, and I'm not sure how attractive that sort of product would be to the average potential consumer. But I'll give it some thought. [/quote'] Steve, I for one would be all over a Heroic Gear book, even if it was 100% reprinted material (and I don't think it would have to be). Historical weapons, firearms, martial arts gear, electronic devices from every era.... even with no material directly related to my SH game (and I'd presume it would have at least a little), it'd be a gold mine.

[Eodin]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Yep,

A book like the old 'Armory' with all sorts of weapons and gear would be great. I third that comment.

[Steve Long]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I for one would be all over a Heroic Gear book, even if it was 100% reprinted material (and I don't think it would have to be).

 

It would be if I didn't have the time to do any extra work, which I don't. ;)Reprinted material I could slap together pretty quickly. Coming up with new stuff would take time and research. But you never know; there are probably at least a few new bits and pieces I could easily dig out of the dark and shadowy corners of my hard drive.

 

A book like the old 'Armory' with all sorts of weapons and gear

 

Well, that's pretty much what Dark Champions already is. I wouldn't expect to add a whole lot in that department, at least not at this stage. But again, one can never tell.

[JmOz]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

I would not be interested in but think it would be a worthy product to make (In otherwords while I will not buy it I think others will) to have book of all the weapons from Fantacy, Dark Champions (ACTION HERO DANG KNAB IT ), Star Hero, and Ninja Hero, However I would state the following about such a product:

 

1) Make sure it clearly says on the back that this is reprinted material

 

2) Keep it generic: We should not see specific fictional weapons from settings (So nothing SPECIFICALY from Alien Wars, etc)

 

3) I would like to see it as part of the Ultimate line, but that is a prefrence (The Ultimate Weapons Locker)

 

If you do an HD file for it, have Dan fix the way equipment prints (It prints as a power, really most heroic games need a sumary not a power...)

subpoint: I Know all equipment is built with powers, but it does not have to look that way on a character sheet

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

It would be if I didn't have the time to do any extra work' date=' which I don't. ;)Reprinted material I could slap together pretty quickly. Coming up with new stuff would take time and research. But you never know; there are probably at least a few new bits and pieces I could easily dig out of the dark and shadowy corners of my hard drive. [/quote'] Maybe you could put it on the 2006 schedule, or make it one of your "spare time" projects. (Or farm out at least the researching new material part. )

[Cpt.Storm]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Maybe you could put it on the 2006 schedule' date=' or make it one of your "spare time" projects. (Or farm out at least the researching new material part. )[/quote']

2006?!!! ACK!! I can't wait that long. hehe Was hoping maybe it could sneak in on the 2005 schedule. Ah well...

 

Cpt. Storm

[wylodmayer]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Thank you, Steve, for you comments on the matter. Whatever my opinion of the Dark Champions HD Character Pack in particular, I believe that your willingness to pay personal attention to the comments of the consumers has made Hero Games's products in general the best in the business.

 

And I would like to apologize again if I insulted anyone. I certainly did not mean to, although upon review of my earlier posts, I admit that I came on a bit strong.

 

Steve, you haven't changed my mind about the pack, though I respect the fact that you - with a far better perspective for viewing the subject than I - feel that my opinion is in the minority. However, I just wanted to say that I just can't wrap my head around the idea that the addition of the guns would jack the price of the character pack up to greater than the cost of the book, and make it "more desirable." To be perfectly clear, the main reason I want the guns in the HD pack is *convenience*. I just don't like entering in those stats; I'd much rather be able to point and click a gun into a character's inventory. As for the Dark Champions book, I bought it first and foremost for the genre and meta-game information; chapters one, three, four, seven, and eight. I buy the HD packs for the crunchy stuff, and the books for the *real* information; the game advice, genre conventions, and nifty insighst from people (or a person, in this case) who knows the genre intimately. I suppose we just see these things from different perspectives entirely; the HD pack could have every gun, knife, and super skill in the DC book in it, and cost only 1.99, and I'd still buy the book. There's a lot more of value (much greater value, in fact) to me in the book than the "crunchy" bits. I only buy the character packs for creation convenience.

 

Peace.

[zornwil]

Re: Dark Champions Character Pack now in Online Store

 

Exactly. Even if I were willing to ask GamePhil or whoever to do the work' date=' the guns are too major a part of the value of the book. We'd have to increase the cost of the DCCP to $34.99 if the guns were included. Otherwise the Character Pack would be too attractive a purchase as compared to the book -- and ultimately we stay in business because we sell books, not Character Packs.[/quote']

FWIW, I am not buying DC for the guns, I'm buying it for other stuff such as ideas and forensics and such, and would prefer to see the guns in a prefab as that's the ONLY place I personally would see any value in them. In the book I'm just going to pass through them briefly.

 

Just giving my 2 cents, that's all.