Nero's Boot Posted November 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Hmmm, well, since Destroyer isn't behind Teleios, then we're left with a huge enigma. Now that the "good" Doctor is out of the running, I'm seriously giving credance to the idea of time-travel being involved somehow. --perhaps Teleios is responsible for his own apotheosis, in a way he never could have imagined? NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Baked Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story I always thought that Captain Chronos might be behind it. Retrieves the formulae from the future and delivers it to Jakob Stroessen that night. For some reason only known to Captain Chronos he needs Stroessen to have the formulae to save the future. It fits right in with Telios's origin story and Captain Chronos's motivation and modus operandi. Elementary my dear Watson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted November 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story I always thought that Captain Chronos might be behind it. Retrieves the formulae from the future and delivers it to Jakob Stroessen that night. For some reason only known to Captain Chronos he needs Stroessen to have the formulae to save the future. It fits right in with Telios's origin story and Captain Chronos's motivation and modus operandi. Elementary my dear Watson! Then Captain Chronos could have given that knowledge to someone other that a genetic supremacist who hungers to play with the entire human genome, just to see what horrors he could unleash. --in terms of personality and goals, Teleios is as bad as Dr. Destroyer NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Then Captain Chronos could have given that knowledge to someone other that a genetic supremacist who hungers to play with the entire human genome' date=' just to see what horrors he could unleash.[/quote']Hmm... not necessarily. Maybe Captain Chronos had a way to get the advanced information, but no way to understand it. If he had reason to think the only person that could understand it was Teleios, then his list of possible recipients could have been a list of one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Baked Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Then Captain Chronos could have given that knowledge to someone other that a genetic supremacist who hungers to play with the entire human genome, just to see what horrors he could unleash. --in terms of personality and goals, Teleios is as bad as Dr. Destroyer NB Who knows, maybe it had to be Teleios to save Captain Chronos's future. Captain Chronos is not interested in morals but "to prevent the collapse of the time-stream and save all reality." Maybe he creates the butterfly that saves the time-stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Here's a theory out of left field It was The Dragon. The Mystic World does say that it sometimes subtly influences things to inspire villainy and thus evil. Perhaps the Dragon manipulated Teleios subconscious to write the paper himself in his sleep, even altering the way he normally wrote so he wouldn't recognize it was from his own hand. And thus Teleios is inspired, and evil and suffering follow, just like The Dragon wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted November 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Here's a theory out of left field It was The Dragon. The Mystic World does say that it sometimes subtly influences things to inspire villainy and thus evil. Perhaps the Dragon manipulated Teleios subconscious to write the paper himself in his sleep, even altering the way he normally wrote so he wouldn't recognize it was from his own hand. And thus Teleios is inspired, and evil and suffering follow, just like The Dragon wants. "The Dragon"? --forgive me, but I am far from an expert on the Champions era of the HEROverse NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted November 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Who knows' date=' maybe it had to be Teleios to save Captain Chronos's future. Captain Chronos is not interested in morals but "to prevent the collapse of the time-stream and save all reality." Maybe he creates the butterfly that saves the time-stream [/quote'] Meh. That's like giving godlike power to Adolf Hitler, on the justification that after he annihilates most of Europe, a better world will emerge. --for the record, Teleios and Hitler share quite a few beliefs NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Here's a theory out of left field "The Dragon"? --forgive me, but I am far from an expert on the Champions era of the HEROverse NB The Dragon is an NPC detailed in The Mystic World. It's basically the incarnation of the collective evil of the entire human race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Baked Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Meh. That's like giving godlike power to Adolf Hitler, on the justification that after he annihilates most of Europe, a better world will emerge. --for the record, Teleios and Hitler share quite a few beliefs NB An apt analogy, but if you don't care about Europe and are totally driven by the belief in a better world then the solution is viable. Why should Captain Chronos care about the same things you or I does? He is driven by his own extreme goals and what he will or won't do shouldn't be judged by what you think is right or wrong. He's not moral or ethical, he is driven. It's why he is a considered a villain, not a hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Meh. That's like giving godlike power to Adolf Hitler, on the justification that after he annihilates most of Europe, a better world will emerge. --for the record, Teleios and Hitler share quite a few beliefs NB What if all the alternatives are even worse? Example: sometime in the future, there will be a superplague that threatens to wipe out the human species. Teleios finds the cure and gives it away because he'd rather not see his test subjects all die off, or because even he isn't quite so evil as to watch everyone else die off, or whatever. Every time someone kills Teleios, or does something that gets Teleios killed, or in some obscure way makes things hard on Teleios, they doom humanity to oblivion. Teleios, and all the pain he causes, must exist for humanity to survive. Captain Chronos knows this because he's tried other ways, hundreds or even thousands of other ways, and no Teleios-free timeline works out with anything other than extiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Don't forget that Teleios is also capable of inducing superpowers in humans through his experiments. Perhaps one of those experiments is destined to be the savior of the human race - or the ancestor of the savior of the human race. Or perhaps his genetically altered humans will be better adapted to survive whatever crisis is coming. Just because Teleios causes harm doesn't mean all the results of his work will necessarily be harmful. A great deal of beneficial technology grew out of the research to build the atom bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story I do like the Captain Chronos idea. And I could easily see him as justifiying X amount of human misery as caused by Teleios if Teleios will by some action of his save the good Captain's future from destruction. Why get concerned about people who lived and died 1000 years in your past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted November 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Not so sure I like the Captain Chronos idea. Still, it's probably the best bet, until Steve stops teasing us and gives us the full answer to this particular enigma. --setting up orbit 'tween and 'til the full story is told NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Not so sure I like the Captain Chronos idea. Still, it's probably the best bet, until Steve stops teasing us and gives us the full answer to this particular enigma. --setting up orbit 'tween and 'til the full story is told NB Me? I don't think it was ment to have an official person give the papers. I beleve it was/is one of thoes mysteries of the Champions Universe which each GM has to define for himself. I myself have to discount the Caption Chronos explnation, because it is to easy. Prehaps it was Teleios himself who wrote the darn thing, and he simply can't remember, because some small memories have been removed and/or altered when he transfers his mind. Prehaps he can never know, because each time him mind gets tranfered, he loses a small piece of memorie in the prosses. With enougth mind transfers, he might become realy unhinged, kinda like Ra's Al Ghoul and his Lazerus Pits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Here's more food for thought... Nothing ever said that everything you read in a character's background has to be true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story Here's more food for thought... Nothing ever said that everything you read in a character's background has to be true... That is true. But then again, how many times have you an official write-up, then have another show up later which says "eveything you know about Charater X is wrong" without using other earths as an explnation? I am not talking about the difrences between editions...but write-ups within the same edition, by the same creator, which says "haha! I got you! Eveything I told you about Charater X, I lied! Hear is the real story." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted November 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story That is true. But then again, how many times have you an official write-up, then have another show up later which says "eveything you know about Charater X is wrong" without using other earths as an explnation? I am not talking about the difrences between editions...but write-ups within the same edition, by the same creator, which says "haha! I got you! Eveything I told you about Charater X, I lied! Hear is the real story." That is appropriate for some games. Take Vampire: The Masquerade, for example. It was, at its base, a game about lying, cheating, backstabbing undead parasites dwelling in a Machiavellian society of cutthroats and backbiters. Lying is the first tool in an elder's campaign to control all around him. --thus, for Vampire: The Masquerade, that sort of metagame lying is perfectly acceptable NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story That is true. But then again, how many times have you an official write-up, then have another show up later which says "eveything you know about Charater X is wrong" without using other earths as an explnation? Sounds like Wolverines entire backstory to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story The thing is, this is background stuff that nobody aside from Teleios even *knows*. . . and Teleios himself has all but repressed the memory. Hence, it would be a very poor target for a "Ahah, fooled you!!' trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted November 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story The thing is, this is background stuff that nobody aside from Teleios even *knows*. . . and Teleios himself has all but repressed the memory. Hence, it would be a very poor target for a "Ahah, fooled you!!' trick. Who knows? Maybe Menton created Teleios, in an attempt to have a pawn he could use against Dr. Destroyer. Maybe Menton took some of Zerstoiten's most sensitive genetic research, used telepathic insight to steal even more research from other geneticists around the world, combined it all into one formula, then gave it to Teleios. --later on, Menton surpressed Teleios' knowledge of the whole deal; it's not like Teleios has any psychic defenses NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Re: Teleios: The origin story hmmm what other characters or civilizations have the capacity for genetic manipulation in the champions universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Shaw Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Teleios: The origin story I like the Cap. C. story line. It's possible that the man who became Telios develops a cure or immunization for a plague that kills or mutates most of the population. Only he doesn't do it in time to effectively alter the coarse of the devastation it causes. Cap. C. takes the man's formula/notes from the future and secretly gives it to him in the past so that the crisis can be averted in the future. The problem is that at that point in the man's life, being given that information takes his life in a different direction, creating Telios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Teleios: The origin story I always assumed it was a Lemurian/Empyrean. The whole shtick seemed like a pastiche of the sudden jump in the High Evolutionary's skillset at the hands of the Deviants in the Marvel Universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Teleios: The origin story I don't think a Lemurian would track in this case. They have experimented with their own biology, especially related to longevity, but use their unique magical techniques. The formulas Teleios received were understandable to his scientifically-trained mind. An Empyrean would be more likely, presuming that they have access to some of the genetic engineering techniques the Progenitors used to create them. But this still begs the question, "why?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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