Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

[Agent X]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Given how little organization it takes to form a CU superteam, there was no need to use anything else to prove the point.

 

The jokingly insulting references to UNTIL as "the most implausible aspect of the CU" really grates. It's funny the first few times, maybe, but people just repeat it OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER...

 

And it would have been possible to use UNTIL as an example without taking cheap shots at the RL UN. Which would have been enough.

Let it go.

[proditor]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Hopefully not opening a new can of worms here...

 

Historically, would this Euroguard spring from the remnants of a NATO superpowered group? Now the CU takes the somewhat "standard" view that supers more or less cancelled each other out or were unable to affect the historical outcomes of war. But any analysis of this would probably give a big edge to the side that ONLY had supers. I'd think that NATO would have had something in place to counter the threat of a Soviet Super Force (Pat pending). Since NATO is still around albeit in a modified form, what are they doing with their potential supers?

 

So this is the EU currently according to eurunion.org with those who are also currently in NATO marked with a *:

 

Austria

Belgium *

Denmark *

Finland

France *

Germany *

Greece *

Ireland

Italy *

Luxembourg *

The Netherlands *

Portugal *

Spain *

Sweden

United Kingdom *

Cyprus

Czech Republic *

Estonia *

Hungary *

Latvia *

Lithuania *

Malta

Poland *

Slovakia *

Slovenia *

 

 

These are NATO only members, those marked with a $ are however, also candidate countries to the EU:

Bulgaria $

Canada

Iceland

Norway

Romania $

Turkey $

United States

 

I think the overlap is enough to posit the idea that the existing military and relief force of supers might just be rolled over to use as the Eurogaurd, minus their Canadian, American and Scandanavian members. Sure there is the possibility that the supers in NATO were just "On call" if the soviets tried a breakthrough, but that seems like an extraordinarily bad idea. Throwing a bunch of extremely powerful guys with no operational training into the middle of a confused war zone is never a good plan.

[Agent X]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Hopefully not opening a new can of worms here...

 

Historically, would this Euroguard spring from the remnants of a NATO superpowered group? Now the CU takes the somewhat "standard" view that supers more or less cancelled each other out or were unable to affect the historical outcomes of war. But any analysis of this would probably give a big edge to the side that ONLY had supers. I'd think that NATO would have had something in place to counter the threat of a Soviet Super Force (Pat pending). Since NATO is still around albeit in a modified form, what are they doing with their potential supers?

 

So this is the EU currently according to eurunion.org with those who are also currently in NATO marked with a *:

 

Austria

Belgium *

Denmark *

Finland

France *

Germany *

Greece *

Ireland

Italy *

Luxembourg *

The Netherlands *

Portugal *

Spain *

Sweden

United Kingdom *

Cyprus

Czech Republic *

Estonia *

Hungary *

Latvia *

Lithuania *

Malta

Poland *

Slovakia *

Slovenia *

 

 

These are NATO only members, those marked with a $ are however, also candidate countries to the EU:

Bulgaria $

Canada

Iceland

Norway

Romania $

Turkey $

United States

 

I think the overlap is enough to posit the idea that the existing military and relief force of supers might just be rolled over to use as the Eurogaurd, minus their Canadian, American and Scandanavian members. Sure there is the possibility that the supers in NATO were just "On call" if the soviets tried a breakthrough, but that seems like an extraordinarily bad idea. Throwing a bunch of extremely powerful guys with no operational training into the middle of a confused war zone is never a good plan.

I'm thinking NATO probably did go "On call" because of the nature of the organization. It may not be a good idea but it may be the only acceptable idea for NATO given how it's organized AND I'm thinking they would only call on supers when they really didn't have any other option.

[proditor]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

I'm thinking NATO probably did go "On call" because of the nature of the organization. It may not be a good idea but it may be the only acceptable idea for NATO given how it's organized AND I'm thinking they would only call on supers when they really didn't have any other option.

True, they also might have done an abbreviated training course and a combined arms manuever or two a year. Since the main idea of NATO in the Soviet first strike is "Hold the line till more stuff gets here from the US", you'd probably see a graduated "call-up" routine for the supers. In Phase one, you have Bricks, Blasters and people who turn things into potted plants with the wave of a hand. Phase two would be striking back, so I'd expect to see more stealthy types and the uber martial artists.

 

Maybe they had a core of front liners (Say 10 or so?) that specialized in hold the line type of actions? Possibly Bricks and guys who generate Force Wall type powers? Might make an interesting core for any new Euroguard as these guys would have specialized in minimizing incoming damage to "their side" and would work nicely in this role in the EG protecting civvies.

[altamaros]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Hopefully not opening a new can of worms here...

 

Historically, would this Euroguard spring from the remnants of a NATO superpowered group? Now the CU takes the somewhat "standard" view that supers more or less cancelled each other out or were unable to affect the historical outcomes of war. But any analysis of this would probably give a big edge to the side that ONLY had supers. I'd think that NATO would have had something in place to counter the threat of a Soviet Super Force (Pat pending). Since NATO is still around albeit in a modified form, what are they doing with their potential supers?

(snip)

I think the overlap is enough to posit the idea that the existing military and relief force of supers might just be rolled over to use as the Eurogaurd, minus their Canadian, American and Scandanavian members. Sure there is the possibility that the supers in NATO were just "On call" if the soviets tried a breakthrough, but that seems like an extraordinarily bad idea. Throwing a bunch of extremely powerful guys with no operational training into the middle of a confused war zone is never a good plan.

I thought about the same thing when i brought up NATO but something annoys me in the logic of that.

 

As several members of NATO are non-EU; pulling out of the NATO all these supers will certainly cause a lot of opposition from the NATO-but-non-EU countries -which includes the USA, most influent member of the alliance -

So i guess that for some reason, several members had to leave the Euroguard project due to various reasons.

 

So, it depends when the Euroguard has been founded; before the Fall of the Berlin Wall, the transfer of Euroguard could be explained by

 

1989) - the fall of the wall itself (1989) and then, the disolving of USSR, making the Euroguard something less useful to counter the dying communist threat.

19?) the creation of Eurostar (which year ??)

1992) the destruction of Detroit (1992) : this event forces the USA and the Canada to call back their supers home cancelling the Euroguard project de facto.

1992) The Maastricht treaty effectively cancels the custom borders and permits free trade among the members of EU. this new permeability obliges the members states to find a new way to fight super-crime hence the transfer of the former Euroguard from the NATO to the EU

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Let it go.

 

Left to my own devices, I would have already.

 

 

As for Eurogard... no. I don't have the time to spend on this... must not waste weekend... (makes EGO roll by 0).

 

Phew.

 

[Cosmic GM] : You forgot the penalty for- [me] NOOOOOOOO! I demand a reroll! (rolls a 3) There we go.

[Agent X]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

I could see a "NATO" team as being nothing more than an agreement and a once every two years exercise on the part of the Justice Squadron or the Sentinels with the New Knights along with any other Western European teams that have been cobbled together. Is there a French team?

 

Anyway, I doubt every member of these teams would show up for the exercise but they would have members in each team trained for the NATO exercise in case they were called on.

 

Euroguard would be very different in my world. It would be a Standing Team of European Superheroes.

[OddHat]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Is there a French team?

 

Yes, but they get 6 weeks of paid vacation per year, and only need to work one year in two. Supervillains are asked to make an appointment.

[Agent X]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Yes' date=' but they get 6 weeks of paid vacation per year, and only need to work one year in two. Supervillains are asked to make an appointment.[/quote'] I had to look it up. They have a small superteam called the Sixteenth Bureau. They are also known as Vanguard.

[Alibear]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Yes' date=' but they get 6 weeks of paid vacation per year, and only need to work one year in two. Supervillains are asked to make an appointment.[/quote']

 

I get 6 weeks holidays a year too.

[etherio]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

And I swear I've seen the term "Euroguard" before on these boards, I just can't remember who runs it. Apologies to whoever, no disrespect intended.

 

I posted pics for a team called "Euroguard" on my Project: XIII images thread. That might be where you saw it on these boards. I'm sure, however, that the name has appeared elsewhere.

 

The team was created in 1990 or so, when I was about 18 years old. I doubt (with my more cynical and slightly more educated present point of view) that they would have been created as a joint, international team if they were created today. I'd say that the concept makes less sense in the 21st century (despite the creation of the EU), because of the end of the Cold War. Of course, that's a comment on the real world. If baddies like Eurostar are truly dangerous to states in your campaign, and aren't just high-powered thieves, then perhaps that would lend the impetus necessary for a "Euroguard." In my campaign, I think of them as sort of semi-retired leftovers from the days of European fear of the Soviets.

[st barbara]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Hey if "Euroguard' needs a Danish member "St. Barbara" would probably volunteer ! Unless I have misinterpreted the small Danish/English dictionary that I have "St.B" would be "Helgin Barbraa" in Danish. Is that correct ? Maybe "Markdoc" could enlighten me! (As I have mentioned before, the CHARACTER of "St Barbara" is Danish, the person writing this post is Australian !)

[OddHat]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

I get 6 weeks holidays a year too.

 

Remember, Evil never takes a holiday!

 

Well, OK, Evil takes two weeks a year in the South of France, and a few day trips to Monaco every now and then, but that's it!

 

[Agent X]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Euroguard was mentioned as a superteam that was destroyed by Eurostar in the 4th Edition timeline.

[Solomon]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

I'd rather have an indipendent superteam, much like an European version of the Avengers or Justice League, than an official EU-sponsored team, but that's just me.

 

So, would the EU fund a superteam?

 

In a "four-color" setting, that would depend on: 1) The need for such a thing, ie powerful supervillain teams that can threaten Europe across national boundaries. 2) A lack of protection from indipendent teams.

 

In a more "realistic" setting (like "canon" Champions Universe, I think) only "1" above would apply, as the EU wouldn't entrust his safety exclusively to indipendents.

 

Could the EU manage and run a continental superteam?

 

I'd say yes from both a "four-color" and "realistic" POVs.

The objection that the EU would need a lot of political and diplomatic work, unlike for instance the USA or China, is pertinent, as is the paralel with the as-yet mostly conjectural European joint defense. However, the main reason there's no joint European defense in the real world is that such a thing simply isn't seen as a priority. But if the need for a coordinated superteam arose, I think it's fair to assume the EU would fund one.

 

And the name would be?

 

Either something that can cross language barriers easily (ie no need to be translated, and isn't associated with a single language, like "Euro"), or something that can easily be "ported" to most major European languages.

Euroguard sounds a wee bit too typically English to me, but I think it could do in a pinch, as could many names with the euro- root. Eurowatch? Euroforce?

I'm partial to AEGIS myself... partly because it was the name I used for the premiere European team in my old campaign. It sounds cool, has a nice mythical imagery, and can be turned into an acronym, and that's always good in a superheroic setting.

Turkish objections? I don't see that as a problem. First, Turkey will not join until 2015 at the very least. Second, I don't think they would jeopardize their EU application with a quibble over an agency's name, considering that Turkish issues that currently threaten their application are several orders of magnitude larger (human rights, Cyprus, the Armenian genocide, migration...). And last, even the word "Europe" comes from a Greek myth, and it's not like Turkey refuses to join because of that.

[Solomon]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

About the issue of who should be in such a team: I feel some posters here are overthinking it. There's no need to have an hero from each country, for instance. This would cause one helluva problems. For starters, that would be 25 characters - too many for a single team. Not to mention that some countries would feel entitled to more than one entry. If Cyprus gets to send one super (or more likely, his only super), why should Germany or the UK send only one?

 

Point is, issues of representation only pertain political entities, and are largely misplaced inside what would effectively be a law enforcement agency. You don't pick servicemen trying to fill representative quotas - you set some physical and psychological specification, and hire the ones that qualify, period.

Also, I feel that in a joint European superteam there'd be no place for super-patriot archetypes. Team members would be required to act as supra-national agents, and keep nationalistic flag-weaving to a minimum.

 

I'd also like to object to the notion that national governments will "choose" to send their best/worst heroes. That seems to imply that most heroes belong to national teams, and that would be inappropriate in many campaigns. "A team in every nation" in Europe doesn't make any more sense than "a team in every state" would make in the USA. As national states range widely in size and population, different teams could operate on different scales, ranging from a single city to a trans-national geographical area. A single team could cover the Belgium-Netherland-Louxembourg area quite well for instance.

 

That doesn't imply that there's no place for politics inside an EU-team. I'm just saying that we should distinguish between politicians and heroes - it's not that hard.

An EU superteam's funding and budget would be most likely overseen by some political entity, and that's where the actual politicking would happen. There will be conflicting interests, some counties will want a stronger/weaker team, some counties will want a tighter/looser EU control on the team, and those attitudes might shift as national governments change.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Remember, Evil never takes a holiday!

 

Well, OK, Evil takes two weeks a year in the South of France, and a few day trips to Monaco every now and then, but that's it!

And why not? Even Death takes holidays.

[st barbara]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Death takes holidays mainly to get away from her annoying family !

[Trencher]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Off course if you use Eurostar in your campaign, a European super alliance could develop independently of EU. Survival counts.

If you intend to have a superpowered team for EU then it would be more like a security/hit-team. I doubt any heroically minded supers would be willing to take orders from the movers and shakers in the EU. But several mercenary characters might. The team does not have to be filled up with outright villains but it could be a good choice for a supervillan who wanted to go legit.

[Agent X]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Off course if you use Eurostar in your campaign, a European super alliance could develop independently of EU. Survival counts.

If you intend to have a superpowered team for EU then it would be more like a security/hit-team. I doubt any heroically minded supers would be willing to take orders from the movers and shakers in the EU. But several mercenary characters might. The team does not have to be filled up with outright villains but it could be a good choice for a supervillan who wanted to go legit.

Good point, no need for the EU to be behind Euroguard. Supers often appoint themselves to protect others.

[Peregrine]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

In my (nascent and developing) campaign, Eurostar is the official EU superteam. Fiacho's rabid pan-Europeanism saw fruit in the ongoing strengthening of the EU, and he formed a team and offered their services to the EU as a counterpart to the American PRIMUS

[OddHat]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

In my (nascent and developing) campaign' date=' Eurostar [i']is[/i] the official EU superteam. Fiacho's rabid pan-Europeanism saw fruit in the ongoing strengthening of the EU, and he formed a team and offered their services to the EU as a counterpart to the American PRIMUS

 

What!? A French ex-terrorist as the head of the EU's Superteam? Why, that would be like Libya as the head of the UN's Human Rights Commission, or a Palestinian terrorist being given a Nobel Peace Prize ...

 

[Kristopher]

Re: Should the 5th CU have a "Euro Guard"?

 

Now, now, remember, there's to be absolutely no bashing on internationalist, multilateral institutions -- no matter how accurate it might be.