terriblyuncreat Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Okay, this one's coming from one of the players in my group... Foxhole has the power to open warps and holes in space. He wants to have a defensive power that any time someone attacks him in melee, a warp opens up in front of the attack, redirecting it to hit his attacker. Any idea how to build this? The only thing I've been able to come up with is four linked EBs and KAs versus PD and ED, all with Damage Shield, all with Variable Special Effects, all with Variable Advantages (all of this to simulate the fact that any attack could be sent back at the attacker), all with the Limitation that the damage cannot exceed the damage of the original attack. Is there an easier way, for instance would it be possible to add some kind of Custom Advantage to Missile Deflection/Reflection that would allow it to be used in HTH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? I've moved this, since it's a "how to." Any ideas, Herodom Assembled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? My first Idea is to go AGAINST The rules, and make a new power, I would model it after Missile Deflection/Reflection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? Hrm. Let's see... Here's an altered version of the USPD's "mimic" power. Mimicking: VPP (Mimic Pool), 200 base + 21 control cost, (300 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Requires Successful HTH Attack (-1/2), Only To Mimic Target's Powers (-1/2), Powers May Only Be As Powerful As Target's (-1/2), Cannot Retain Copied Powers (-1/4) Then make another "Missile Reflection" power and/or an Armor/FF power to prevent damage being done. Rationalize any loss of power from not having enough points as "attack loses inertia/energy during the transfer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? I'd be inclined to look long and hard at this Foxhole character... You can't do it without a VPP using the rules as they are at present (and I don't like VPPs), but there is no logical reason you can't deflect and reflect melee attacks like you can ranged attacks (except that you have a seperate 'free' mechanic for deflection of melee attacks: blocking.) I wouldn't make a new power as such, but I'd be inclined to allow you to buy missile deflection and reflection and define it as against ranged or against melee attacks, then allow a 10 or 20 point adder to do both. Looking at the title and doing the reasoning from effect thing, you could buy it as NND Mind Control, single command, 'hit yourself instead of me' with the sfx that it appears your attack goes through a warp and rebounds on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? Enough Defenses to take the hit and a Damage Shield with the limitation (only up to attacks level) would be another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? You can't do it without a VPP using the rules as they are at present (and I don't like VPPs)' date='[/quote'] Not trying to ignore or downplay your other suggestions, TRL, but what's wrong with the mimic pool I quoted above? Why couldn't he do it that way? (not being challenging...just wondering if I missed something). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? It seems to me this should be a power that requires some attention so I'd look at Trigger and Force wall to block and redirect an attack I'd probibly start with a Multi with variable special effects (matches incomming attack) and the force wall leaves foxhole unharmed if it holds...I'd be a little leary though...sounds like the concept is "I can't be harmed" thats something Hero dosen't do very well and play ballence demands to be impossable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? It's No Conscious Control Missile Deflection and a HA Damage Shield. Most melee attacks will be physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? Summon invisible space hole or buy a computer/ai with the powers of detect incoming attacks and missile reflection [along with the appropriate programs, dexterity, and levels]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? There's a not too old thread on HTH reflection around here somewhere... I'm inclined to allow the Missile Reflection adder to be added to Block (which is already a free maneuver) for "melee reflection". Given the character has to "catch" the attack in his warp field, this kind of "active defense" seems appropriate. If he makes the Block, but misses the roll to hit with the reflected attack, he didn't time it right and the warp field didn't bring the attack out in close enough proximity to hit the other character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? There's a not too old thread on HTH reflection around here somewhere... I'm inclined to allow the Missile Reflection adder to be added to Block (which is already a free maneuver) for "melee reflection". Given the character has to "catch" the attack in his warp field, this kind of "active defense" seems appropriate. If he makes the Block, but misses the roll to hit with the reflected attack, he didn't time it right and the warp field didn't bring the attack out in close enough proximity to hit the other character. Yup. Just buy Missile Deflection, but for HtH instead of Range attacks. I've used this for years (only comes up rarely) and haven't found it a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarioTani Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? I've never build something like this, so I do not know if this could work... Why not modeling it with a EB, limited with "up to the damage done" and some bonus to Block and the following hit with a manuever "must folow block" Some problems i see: - the counter is not automatic - The SFX of the effect is not matched (maybe it can be done with a variable SFX) - Counter damage does not happen in the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? Not trying to ignore or downplay your other suggestions' date=' TRL, but what's wrong with the mimic pool I quoted above? Why couldn't he do it that way? (not being challenging...just wondering if I missed something).[/quote'] You didn't miss a thing, I just don't like VPPs if there's any other way at all Could you use a force wall and borrow the backlash limitation from entangle? You need to stop the damage to yourself and hit the opponent with a counter blow of equal power and sfx. I think pinecone probably comes close with the variable sfx eb...hmmm... If a VPP can automatically change slots, why can't a MP? You could have a MP with no conscious control at the -1 level with eb and killing attacks, drains, transfers and whatever else you like to simulate the damage aspect. Have a trigger that works when you do a block manoeuvre rather than simulating it with armour - block stops all damage and gives the possibilty of you missing the block which is clunkier to do with armour or other defences. You would have to re-set the trigger of course, so there would be a limit to how many times you could do it, but it is a powerful ability, in effect letting you get in multiple attacks, so I wouldn't feel bad about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terriblyuncreat Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? All-- Thanks for all the input! I think I'm going to let him do it and go with the modified Missile Deflection. Hadn't thought of that... --terriblyuncreative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? You didn't miss a thing, I just don't like VPPs if there's any other way at all Could you use a force wall and borrow the backlash limitation from entangle? You need to stop the damage to yourself and hit the opponent with a counter blow of equal power and sfx. I think pinecone probably comes close with the variable sfx eb...hmmm... If a VPP can automatically change slots, why can't a MP? You could have a MP with no conscious control at the -1 level with eb and killing attacks, drains, transfers and whatever else you like to simulate the damage aspect. Have a trigger that works when you do a block manoeuvre rather than simulating it with armour - block stops all damage and gives the possibilty of you missing the block which is clunkier to do with armour or other defences. You would have to re-set the trigger of course, so there would be a limit to how many times you could do it, but it is a powerful ability, in effect letting you get in multiple attacks, so I wouldn't feel bad about that... Or you could just define "Missile Reflection" as working vesus HtH rather than ranged attacks as a 0 point modifier, or versus both as a +1 advantage, and save yourself all of that jumping through hoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? Not trying to ignore or downplay your other suggestions' date=' TRL, but what's wrong with the mimic pool I quoted above? Why couldn't he do it that way? (not being challenging...just wondering if I missed something).[/quote'] Nothing at all wrong with your suggestion from a rules perspective, V.00. It's just that the effect reflected from the VPP is limited to the Active Points in the Pool; as your construct shows, you need a lot of AP to be sure you can "reflect" any anticipated amount of damage back, compared to a relatively small, set cost for doing essentially the same thing to Ranged attacks (Missile Reflection). FWIW I've been going with the Reflection Naked Adder approach myself, and it seems to be reasonably balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techogre Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? The Missle Deflection/Reflection with HTH Only (+0) sounds like the simplest way of doing it. IMO, the VPP option _could_ get too complex. Why complicate things when you have a simple solution available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doppler Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Re: Why Are You Hitting Yourself? I think a +0 lim is the most appropriate- it certainly isn't an advantage to remove ranged reflection possisilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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