DrTemp Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Drakkenkin they often ignored the federation rule book, [/b] That's because the Federation doesn't exist yet. and the Vulcan's had too much emotions and they seemed to be painted as being underhanded with secret bases and such. Well, they are the major power of their time. What else could one expect than acting like one? Their emotions have always been there, that's pretty canon. There is one episode where it is revealed that "Vulcan mind-meld" is actually viewed as something really perverse by Vulcan society in 2151. That makes sense, I think. I always wondered why a culture that is so secret about heir inner feelings would share those very feelings willingly. I did like them using some old, less used races more. On it's own I think I could get into it but as part of the ST world I have a hard time with it. Actually this is a good explanation of how I enjoy the show. Just imagine it's parallel universe. Given all the time travel involved to date, that's even quite plausible, and parallel universes are actually ST canon, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Gorns and Tholians Oh My Well, I've taken my first stab at the Gorns and Tholians, and I'll get in posted in the next day or two... I'm generating the PDF now, but gotta get some sleep. Gonna go see 'Return of the King' tomorrow. The Gorns and Tholians writeup will need some tweaking definitely, but it's a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Gorns & Tholians posted I have added the first draft of the Gorn and Tholians into the TNGHero.pdf at the 2 websites. I have not yet added it to the TrekHero.pdf. For those who are interested, please take a look and give me some 'tweaking' feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I think they look very nice. Especially given what you have to work with, and I like how you worked in a declaimer on the info not being cannon. The only thing I noticed is that you might want to put the disad. 'only with other Tholians' on the mind link. I know it would not be much of a disad as they aren't likely to get together with other races, but I think it makes sense. Also I was thinking it would make more sense if they grew new crystals on themselves and then, at some point, they brake off and grow into Tholians. Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by DrTemp That's because the Federation doesn't exist yet. Nevertheless, they have rules and regulations and they have an attitude of, basically, what do the people on earth know, and what do the high tech Vulcan's know, we're going to do what we want to do. I would think that earth would have hand picked their best men and women to go on this mission. With a bases of past service record and mental e-val. I never got this feeling from the crew. More of the opposite. This may be done so that you can see them progress into a well formed group that works well together and know what they are doing, but I find the starting point of the crew to primitive. I could see their behavior if they were just a random selection, but they should be a veteran group well trained to work together. Everyone know that space is dangerous and if they crew can't work together they will all die and there goes the 'state of the art' space craft that you took forever to design and build. Originally posted by DrTemp Well, they are the major power of their time. What else could one expect than acting like one? As with the original ST you could hope for the best. The Vulcan's are not human but the writer have them act human. Not all Supper powers need to be into secret bases and the quest for power. As far as we know they are still a major power. In the other time lines it never is stated that the Vulcans have lagged behind the humans, but in every series and movie they choose to use their tech and power to learn more not to do keep others in the dark or expand their reach. Originally posted by DrTemp Their emotions have always been there, that's pretty canon. There is one episode where it is revealed that "Vulcan mind-meld" is actually viewed as something really perverse by Vulcan society in 2151. That makes sense, I think. I always wondered why a culture that is so secret about heir inner feelings would share those very feelings willingly. Ya' I can't really counter that point. There is even another episode were Saraks (SP? Spock's father) wife talks about him being proud of Spock and during the episode he shows his emotions VERY lightly. ( though that could be do to the fact he had some disease that, I think, affected his ability to control his emotions. It was compared to Alzheimer's) So it's true that Vulcans show their emotions a LITTLE, but they try and hide them most of the time. Once again I just felt they were not hiding there feeling to that extent. Explanation; maybe the ones I saw on the show weren't that good ant controlling their emotions. I guess, to me, they acted more like Romulans of the original series then Vulcans. Spy tech, lives sworn to the empire, and the government is after power- type of people. I'm not saying they are fully like this just more so. Originally posted by DrTemp Actually this is a good explanation of how I enjoy the show. Just imagine it's a parallel universe. Given all the time travel involved to date, that's even quite plausible, and parallel universes are actually ST canon, so... That sounds like a good way to do it. Kind of like watching ST in the parallel evil universe. Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Nevertheless, they have rules and regulations and they have an attitude of, basically, what do the people on earth know, and what do the high tech Vulcan's know, we're going to do what we want to do. That's been a criticism for some time --- even though Roddenberry had been in the Air Force, many of the writers had/have no idea what life in the service is like, with rules and regulations and procedures. Without that background, the crew [of Enterprise and even TNG sometimes] appears more of a band of people than a ship's crew. Actually this is a good explanation of how I enjoy the show. Just imagine it's a parallel universe. Given all the time travel involved to date, that's even quite plausible, and parallel universes are actually ST canon, so... That's the feeling I have about Enterprise and ST:Nemesis. Enterprise is fine by itself, but it's strayed too far from TOS to be really canon-Trek. The only thing I noticed is that you might want to put the disad. 'only with other Tholians' on the mind link. I know it would not be much of a disad as they aren't likely to get together with other races, but I think it makes sense. That's a good idea. I'll do a little research and see how big or small it should be. Also I was thinking it would make more sense if they grew new crystals on themselves and then, at some point, they break off and grow into Tholians. That's not a bad idea. I was thinking about spiders laying eggs, but, like rock candy, crystals can seed other crystals which grow. I'll give that some thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTemp Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Drakkenkin Nevertheless, they have rules and regulations Do they? This is the very first mission of that kind. All former spaceships have Warp 1 to 3-drives, which means they need months or years to reach any foreign star. It doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief a lot to see people without any historical experience behind them act just as if they had no historical experience behind them. Remember, they even had to invent a "tactical alert" because such a cpncept was obviously not needed before the NX-01's mission. I would think that earth would have hand picked their best men and women to go on this mission. With a bases of past service record and mental e-val. They are. It's all in the criteria by that those service records were written. That problem is known even in today's militaries- some people are excellent in training, but fail under more realistic circumstances, and vice versa (though the latter seems to be rather rare). As with the original ST you could hope for the best. The Vulcan's are not human but the writer have them act human. Not all Supper powers need to be into secret bases and the quest for power. [...] I guess, to me, they acted more like Romulans of the original series then Vulcans. Spy tech, lives sworn to the empire, and the government is after power- type of people. I'm not saying they are fully like this just more so. Well, any major power that wants to remain a major power needs to take steps to preserve its power, otherwise it, well, will stop to be a major power. Very soon. Given their Cold War against the Andorians, they have no choice but use these methods- the Andorians will, certainly. Concerning the Romulans, well, they _are_ related to the Vulcans. And it _is_ pretty TOS canon that the Vulcans of the time did not inform the humans who the Romulans where, even though they knew it for certain- so a bit secrecy on the side of the Vulcans was always there, obviously. BTW, the Earth-Romulan War will very likely take place in the series, given the timeframe. For a TV show, that could be really fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I've been stating since the first epi that Archer has been more manipulated by higher-up mole Romulans than actual Vulcans. As part of the temporal cold-war, I believe the Romulans (of Archer's day) would be likely to be a pawn in such an effort. I don't personally believe Vulcans would choose to hold back Earth's progress, nor be so obviously aggressive, secretive, intolerant, etc. If pattern holds... next season (provided they get one) will certainly see the addition of a new high-profile cast member [ala Se7en on VOY, or Worf on DS9]. I predict this series will build up to & end with the Romulan War, similar to the Dominion War & Janeway's Borg confrontations. Just my theories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 So I'm not the only one convinced those overly-emotional 'Vulcans' are actually Romulans, eh? Good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Carman Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Eodin That's the feeling I have about Enterprise and ST:Nemesis. Enterprise is fine by itself, but it's strayed too far from TOS to be really canon-Trek. They have flat-out admitted this. "Crewman Daniels" (the future time agent) showed up and Capt. Archer was ready to rip him a new one: "Why didn't you warn us about these Xindi?!?" And Daniels answered that he hadn't known, because this wasn't supposed to be happening at all. I get the definate impression that A) the temporal Cold War has gotten hot, and there are more than just two sides involved, since it was the Sulibon's patron that told Archer about the Xindi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted February 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Upload and comment I'm uploading the TNGHero.pdf file with Drakkenkin's tweak to the Tholians. There's nothing else new in the document at t his time. I'm finding myself somewhat burned-out on the TrekHero and TNGHero docs... there's stuff I want to add, but when I sit down to work on it, the inspiration just isn't there. IF I get requests to add things (like the Tholians and Gorn), I will do so as convenient, but my regular updates will be less frequent than in the past. At least until I get my inspiration back. As far as Enterprise, I fully expect the Romulan War to enter the picture unless they get prematurely cancelled. How they handle that as opposed to what ST:TOS says about the Romulan War, with nuclear warheads and such, will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Re: Upload and comment Originally posted by Eodin I'm finding myself somewhat burned-out on the TrekHero and TNGHero docs... there's stuff I want to add, but when I sit down to work on it, the inspiration just isn't there. IF I get requests to add things (like the Tholians and Gorn), I will do so as convenient, but my regular updates will be less frequent than in the past. At least until I get my inspiration back. With all the work you put into it you should take a brake! The worst thing would be to hate your project of love. I think I may say this for all the people that subscribe to this thread, Thanks for all the hard work and the great job on the TrekHero Doc! Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Re: Upload and comment Originally posted by Eodin I'm finding myself somewhat burned-out on the TrekHero and TNGHero docs... there's stuff I want to add, but when I sit down to work on it, the inspiration just isn't there. IF I get requests to add things (like the Tholians and Gorn), I will do so as convenient, but my regular updates will be less frequent than in the past. At least until I get my inspiration back. Ah, writers block and burnout. I know the feeling all too well. Hope it gets better! Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 "Writing is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy and an amusement. Then it becomes a mistress, then it becomes a master, then it becomes a tyrant. The last phase is that just as you are about to be reconciled to your servitude, you kill the monster and fling him to the public." Winston Churchill I have to say you've done great work so far, Eodin. Try to keep this project in the amusement phase until you're ready to kill the monster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Yo, Eodin... Here's my suggestion for the Vulcan Nerve Pinch, in case you lost my Email... HA 2d6, NND (Defense is having at least 1 point of resistant PD; +1), Autofire x 3 (+1 & 1/4), Reduced END (half END; +1/2), User can abort END spending at any point (+1/4), (40 Active Points), Only work on Humanoids (-1/2), Hand-to-Hand Attack Only (-1/2). Total cost = 20. 10 STR can boost this to a 4d6 HA, and someone with 20 STR can do so with Casual STR, which only costs END once each phase... And the END cost of the HA is 1 per shot plus any END for STR... So a Vulcan with 20 STR who makes his attack roll can apply 4d6 NND for 2 END... If they make the attack roll by 2, they can apply 8d6 NND for 3 END, and if they make it by 4, they can apply 12d6 NND for 4 END... And they can apply the NND in sets of 4d6, stopping at the point where their target passes out... When Spock is creeping up on people, rather than that being the Concentrate Limitation, I'd suggest that it's an attempt to claim the Surprise Move modifier for +3 OCV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted March 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Yo... I got your email, no prob. (My antispam rules sometimes kill stuff I don't want killed.) I'll pop your writeup into my (just purchased) copy of HeroDesigner 2, and next chance I get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caped Crusader Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Question: Why Autofire for that Nerve Pinch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted March 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 I've been looking over the writeup concept, and although it certainly brings down the Real cost, I'm not sure I'd ever allow autofire to be used only for costsavings this way. That doesn't make it wrong, just not something I'd personally use. However, I'm true to my word, and I'll include it in the next incarnation of TNGHero/TrekHero as version 1b of the Vulcan Neck Pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Caped Crusader Question: Why Autofire for that Nerve Pinch? Looking back to Eodin's original PDF, the high cost of the original version made it unlikely to see use... Version 1a was still a bit pricey, and since it was defined to be continuous over several phases, the victim could fight back, which Eodin commented never happened in the show... Then I noticed that Autofire essentially did the same thing, but not stretched out over multiple phases, and thus might be a better model of the Nerve Pinch as depicted on TV for that reason... I do wonder, though, why he didn't just model it as an INT drain to start with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted March 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Next update later this week Well, besides Foxiekins version1b of the Nerve Pinch, I've added some more stuff but have to format it to be easy to read. I should hopefully be able to post it in the next evening or two, if luck holds. I've added writeups for the Ferengi Energy Whip and the Jemhadar Polaron Beam pistol, added to the list of medicines/diseases/medical procedures in the Medicine chapter, and added some more information on the types of cons (Pigeon Drop, Block Party, etc.) and kidnappings (Golden Goose, Prisoner Swap, etc.) in the Crime and Criminals chapter. Whenever I get it posted, I'll let the group know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted March 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Updated TNGHero is posted! The updated file is now posted at both locations. By the way, I've asked Arooo to host the files for me instead of leaving them on Tripod. When he and I get that done, I'll ask Ben to change the Star Hero links and post the changed URL here. Then, I'll remove the files from Tripod and the rbruce sites. Should (hopefully) make things easier all around. And if for some reason you don't know about Arooo's Star Hero Fandom site, go to http://www.starherofandom.com/ and check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eodin Posted March 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 New site now ready The new site for the TrekHERO and TNGHero pdfs is http://www.starherofandom.com/h_trekhero/index.php thanks to Arooo. I have removed the files from my secondary site, and will be removing them from the tripod site in the next day or two. Change your bookmarks accordingly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialOne Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Awesome. Thanks to Aroo for hosting these fine books. Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 No problem. Just doing my part to make sure Star Hero remains a viable genre. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialOne Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 I can't seem to load the pdf properly, as my Adobe Reader 6.0.1 (latest update) seems to hang. Is there something wrong with the set-up? Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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