"Recycled" Name (Intentional or Not...)

[Crimson-Hawk]

I wanted to get people's opinion on something.

 

I've noticed that at least two characters in Meriquai Falls (the heroines Vixen and Jade Phoenix) have names exactly like characters in two other campaign settings. There is (an admittedly more adult) heroine named Vixen in the Strike Force universe while Millennium City is the proud host of a martial arts villain (male, no less) named Jade Phoenix. To add insult to injury, both Jade Phoenix characters are Korean martial artists! (At least the two Vixen characters have different modis operandi.)

 

(As a side note, the heroine Jade Phoenix has been a staple of the Meriquai Falls setting since 1993... she was originally named Jade Falcon until a Battletech fanatic saw her name. I changed it to Jade Phoenix shortly thereafter, congratulating myself on my prowess in imaginative naming. Then Watchers of the Dragon came out....)

 

My question to you is: What is your opinion on characters whose names are the same as or similar to previously published characters?

 

Now, obviously there are limits. To create a brand new villain and name him Doctor Destroyer is obviously straight out. And having a brand new patriotic character named Captain America is absolutely begging a trademark lawsuit from Marvel Entertainment Group. But what of more obscure names.

 

Now, obviously, any name I could possibly come up with will never be as original as I'd like it to be. Galvakar, for example, is named after the classic Transformers Decepticon leader, Galvatron. Professor Epoch (my resident time-travelling villainess and the cause for most of the issues going on in the Meriquai Falls universe) gets her name from the time-traveling vehicle Crono and friends used in the classic SNES video game, Chrono Trigger. Cougar and Nexus are rather generic names. And I seriously wouldn't doubt that someone, somewhere, has used the name Incandentus for something....

 

But should names even be reused in the superhero genre? Is it Kosher for there to be two different Vixens and two different Jade Phoenixes? Or should they be renamed?

[Stephen_H-G]

Happens all the time in the comics.

 

Clay Face (3 clay faces, BTW). Firebrand. The Flash. Doctor Midnight.

 

Fact is, a lot of superhero names are simple. "Vixen" is a little too obvious not to be re-used at some point. Sometimes characters have the same name.

[Nuadha]

Wasn't Vixen also a character in the Detroit-based JLA?

 

When my friends and I started gaming back in High School, we needed a name for our hero group and I came up with the Global Guardians. Later, we found out about the DC group by that name. It didn't really bother us at all. Obviously, if we were going to publish our world, it could be a problem. However, GG is a pretty obvious superhero group name and DC's GG is somewhat obscure.

[JohnTaber]

Hi CH,

 

Hummm...I guess I don't care but I know for a fact that the Hero folks care...at least to some degree. For example, I had a character in my DH article, Infectious Enthusiasm, called "Riptide". At the time I did not own CKC so I did not see the duplication. I was told to change the name of the character in my story even though the article itself is tagged with a "This is not part of the Hero Universe" disclaimer. Again...it was no problem changing the name of the character in my article to "Pipeline".

 

Long story short, I would just change the names of the characters in your stories/articles and avoid the confusion...is the name as important as the content anyway? Guess my priority is on the content...

[rjcurrie]

Personally, I think you should rename both characters. It just makes it easier to avoid confusion for the players. You might get away with Vixen because it's very common and generic and the duplication of the name doesn't really stick out, but I would definitely look at changing Jade Phoenix. The name stands out and the duplication would be noticeable.

 

If you need help, you could give us a brief description of the characters in question and we could make suggestions.

 

Rod

[Blue]

Why not? It's nearly impossible to be totally original.

 

Heck, when I had new players come on board and neither they nor I had a name suggestion, I'd hand them the 13 or so issues of "Handbook of the Marvel Universe" and let them browse for names.

 

Obviously they couldn't pick a name another player was using, and it was nice if the name had something to do with their powers, but neither of those ever seemed to be an issue.

[rjcurrie]

Originally posted by Blue

Why not? It's nearly impossible to be totally original.

 

Heck, when I had new players come on board and neither they nor I had a name suggestion, I'd hand them the 13 or so issues of "Handbook of the Marvel Universe" and let them browse for names.

 

Obviously they couldn't pick a name another player was using, and it was nice if the name had something to do with their powers, but neither of those ever seemed to be an issue.

 

In general, I would agree with you, Blue. However, since I believe that this is for Crimson-Hawk's Meriquai Falls e-book to be published by Hero Games, it may be better to err on the side of caution and rename the characters to avoid confusion.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Thanks, guys!

 

There's strong arguments on both sides, as I expected, but I think Rod Currie makes an important one. The "avoid confusion" thing is very important. Especially since the name "Jade Phoenix" is attached to one of the most powerful and notorious martial arts villains in the CU.

 

Although I'm sorely tempted to keep with the name "Vixen," I'll describe them both briefly and beg assistance in renaming them.

 

Mind you, these are how the characters stand in 2003 with the MF timeline. Things will be radically different in the e-book; the e-book's timeline goes into mid-2004 and events within the Omega Legion hero team changes things radically. But both characters still exist.

 

Vixen: Trina Sullivan, the future daughter of millionaire Jackson Sullivan and his wife Lyssa Kellerman-Sullivan (Amethyst), is 15 years old in 2003 and is very much a teenager of the "bubblegum pop" variety, extremely friendly and a veritable heartbreaker despite her tender age. She was actually born in 2008, but in 2020 was shunted back to the year 2000 by a freak accident. Her powers stem from her mutant nature: she is easily on par with Spider-Man/Nightcrawler in the DEX department (30 DEX), highly developed reflexes (8 SPD), heightened olfactory senses, and minor regenerative capability. She is nominally the Omega Legion's "speedster," even though her Movement powers limited (her combat running and leaping are each only 12", though she can really book it in non-combat situations).

 

Jade Phoenix: Moon Ok-hwa, along with her sister Sun-hi, are the last surviving members of the Moon sulsa (Korean ninja) family. The rest of the family was wiped out by the Night Shadow ninja clan over some unknown slight. Ok-hwa and Sun-hi escaped the slaughter thanks to their great-aunt, who smuggled them to the United States. Ok-hwa later learned of her heritage and took up the Hwarang-do martial arts that had been her family's tool. In the short years she's studied, she's become a master of not only the fighting style, but the Shin Gong and Nae Gong mystical abilities associated with the style. In practice, she is much more of a healer than a fighter; she is a defensive pacifist and will use her Shin Gong Healing ability far more often than any of her other abilities.

 

One idea I've entertained for Jade Phoenix's name is the Korean translation for "Divine Wind." I'll have to research that. In the meantime, suggestions are most definately welcome!

[Hermit]

Heh... I formed a JL type group of mostly NPCs for my game world, and named the female martial artist .... Jade Phoenix. Imagine my embarrasment. Though, at least mine was a former resident of Hong Kong (And not pleased about it going into the hands of Communist China). So I know how you feel.

 

It is probably best to avoid confusion unless you want to make the name duplication have in character ramifications. I was pleased by the 'grudge' Thunderbolt I and II seemed to have over the names in CKC. For my Jade Phoenix, well, I am thinking of having her have to face a certain guy for the right to the name, or maybe be killed by him as a plot starter. It would certainly put the 'official' Jade Phoenix on the map as far as my Players are concerned.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Just to let you guys know how STRANGE this world is at times...

 

I decided to do some research on a possible new name for Vixen. I had originally named her that due to her red and platinum hair coupled with her mischievous personality (vixen being a female fox and all). So the first thing I did was go to http://www.webster.com to find what words were synonyms of "vixen."

 

Imagine my pain and shock when the thesaurus points out words with negative connotations, such as "amazon," "harpy," "ogress," and "shrew"!!! Apparently vixens aren't the type of creatures I thought they were!

 

So I follow the link to the first word on the list, "virago." Ick, and double ick!!!

 

Originally posted by Webster Dictionary

Text: a woman of extremely pugnacious temperament (an overbearing virago who screamed at her children and squabbled with her neighbors)

Um, definately not Vixen...

 

But then I noticed the "related" words: cat, dragon, fury.

 

Things just kinda fell into place at that point.

 

Vixen's SID is Trina Sullivan. Trina could easily be a shortening of the name "Catrina." Given that, the name "Cat" can easily be extrapolated from it. And the word "dragon" just sounds plain cool. So, hence a possible new name for Vixen... Dragoncat.

 

Now, mind you, I'm still thinking on that one, since I'm having trouble rationalizing the word "dragon" with Trina's superpowers (speed, reflexes, scent, and regeneration). But it does sound way cool.

 

Now, if I can just pull the same stunt with Jade Phoenix. Hmmm... I wonder what synonyms there are for "phoenix"?

[ShinDangaioh]

Originally posted by Crimson-Hawk

Just to let you guys know how STRANGE this world is at times...

Now, if I can just pull the same stunt with Jade Phoenix. Hmmm... I wonder what synonyms there are for "phoenix"?

Chinese- Feng Huang

Japanese- Ho-oh

Egyptian- Benu

 

Well, you have Phoenix in three different languages.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, Mr. Hawk, as long as you're asking for opinions :

 

IMHO you shouldn't be overly concerned about using the name "Vixen" for your character, unless Hero Games already has plans for it. Strike Force, excellent book though it is, has been out of print for many years, and few new gamers have even seen it. Even if Hero Games eventually makes an arrangement with Aaron Allston to publish his updated edition of the Strike Force world, Steve Long has made it pretty clear that that book will not be part of the official CU continuity any more than yours will. Even those of us who remember Allston's Vixen have to admit that she was a fairly minor character. Long story short: if Hero has no trouble with it, I'd say go ahead and retain Vixen. Maybe the two Vixens could meet in an Earth "MF"/ Earth "SF" crossover.

 

If that still doesn't appeal to you, I'd be inclined to suggest "Mongoose" as an alternative animal, except that I'm not sure whether Steve has done or intends to do anything with that old Classic Enemies character. It would be a good match for her power set, though.

 

Regarding the Jade Phoenix duplication, that is a more pressing concern, since the CU version is current and quite prominent. I've a few thoughts on this subject. One would be to change the gemstone/color component of her name: is there anything about her that would suggest "Red Phoenix", "Golden Phoenix", or the like? Another possibility would be to change the animal association, as you did before. I was thinking "Jade Crane" - the crane has popular associations with martial arts due to the crane substyle of kung fu, which does tend to be a more defensive style. OTOH, you could play up her pacifist tendencies and borrow a more Western symbol, "Jade Dove".

 

Finally, the character's family name, Moon, is a perfectly appropriate moniker for a martial artist with any kind of stealth abilities: "Jade Moon", "Moon Shadow", "Crescent Moon" (which lends itself to trademark weaponry), etc.

 

I hope some of that is of use to you.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Wow! Thanks, guys!

 

ShinDangaioh, thank you so much for the assistance. Though it was my hope to keep my heroine's Korean heritage obvious in her name, those are definately food for thought!

 

Lord Liadon, you have surprised me with your thought provoking posts time and again and this one proves no less so. In fact, many of your suggestions hits the nail on the head immediately. "Jade Dove," "Golden Phoenix," and "Moon Shadow" are all very cool names indeed.

 

"Moon Shadow" would be dismissed, however, due to her antipathy towards the Night Shadow ninja clan.

 

Actually...

 

One staple in comic books that occasionally explored is the changing of nom de guerre. For instance, Kitty Pryde of X-Men fame has gone by Sprite, Ariel, and Shadowcat, amongst other monikers. Another Marvel hero, Thunderhammer, was previously a stand-in Thor. And then how can one forget when Dick Greyson went from being Robin to being Nightwing?

 

One thing I could do is have Ok-hwa start out her crimefighting career as "Moon Shadow" until she does find out the connection between her family and the Night Shadow ninja clan. Since this would occur during the events from the "magazine" timeline (early 2003) into the "e-book" timeline (late 2004), this would make a perfect opportunity for her to recreate her identity... drawing off of the moon's inspiration but honoring the life-giving Phoenix instead of the life-stealing Shadow... hence, Silver Phoenix!

 

(The fact that the android villainess Moonshooter would appear shortly thereafter nonwithstanding....)

 

With all the possibilities your thoughts inspired... Silver Dove, Phoenix Moon, Moon Dove, Moon Phoenix, Silver Shadow, Shadow Dove, Moon Shadow.... I hope that a number of people read this thread and gain inspiration for their own games!

 

Thanks a bunch, guys!

[Crimson-Hawk]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Long story short: if Hero has no trouble with it, I'd say go ahead and retain Vixen. Maybe the two Vixens could meet in an Earth "MF"/ Earth "SF" crossover.

 

**chuckle**

 

That would be so ****ing cool I can't put words to it!!!

 

Of course, I can't hold my breath on the matter. Strike Force does belong to Aaron Allston, after all and prospects of it being rewritten and republished are unknowable at the moment. But I think that a MF/SF crossover (like the CU/SAS crossover coming this summer) would absolutely rock!

 

Professor Epoch, on one of her transdimensional "hunts," meets The Overlord. The two bump heads and realize the with her technical genius and his criminal genius, they could both take over both timelines' Earths. Can the Omega Legion and Strike Force join forces and defeat this nefarious plot before it's too late? Or will the PC's have to intervene?

[ShinDangaioh]

Originally posted by Crimson-Hawk

Wow! Thanks, guys!

 

ShinDangaioh, thank you so much for the assistance. Though it was my hope to keep my heroine's Korean heritage obvious in her name, those are definately food for thought!

You are welcome.

 

If I had a Korean-English dictonary, I'd have the Korean word for Phoenix up for you.

 

Ye Kuang(Light of the Night) aincent chinese term for Moon

 

 

Getting ahold of some language dictonaries will help out a bit.

 

Hisui Ho-oh translates to Jade Phoenix. But as you said, you want the Korean heritage left in.

 

There was this M*A*S*H episode you might want to try and watch. A Korean man refused to have treatment in the 4077 until the place was exorcized by one of their preistesses. There was a term for that person. I can not remember it.

 

To help identify the episode:

Hawkeye did a bit right before the preistess was brought in. 'I exorcise all evil spirits' Frank Burns walked out and Hawkeye went back and said, 'My god, it works.'

 

Use the term for that preistess and throw Jade right before it.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm glad that my suggestions worked for you, Crimson-Hawk. Really, they were just permutations of what you had already created. I must say that the rationale you posit for the name "Silver Phoenix" is logical and very interesting from a character development perspective.

 

One word about using "Moon Shadow" as your heroine's earlier pseudonym: if you have any older players, they might associate the name with the classic Cat Stevens folksong. That came out many years ago though, and in any event the lyrics are not inappropriate given your character's background and might even have inspired her; just be prepared if someone mentions it.

[AnotherSkip]

At the core though people are going to cross name things all the time.

 

For Example for Years my "superheroic Alternate Id"ie. AnotherSkip with powers In V&V IS "the Rook" I have been playing that character for decades.

 

So much so that the {Character}Rook posting kinda irrates me.

 

However turns out that it is the name of a deceased Superheroic Character in an 82' V&V Module that I have never seen. Boy Howdy, talk about embarassin!

 

To a certain extent unless you are going for "offical" just don't swipe. Ie Building a character and then using the name Captain America.

 

trying too hard to be original will just kill you.

 

For example other names for my V&V alternates was: Halcion(weather control) and Lord Leader of Thieves(Eagle Summoning/controller).

 

i highly doubt _those_ have been used But I can be wrong.

[lemming]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

At the core though people are going to cross name things all the time.

 

For Example for Years my "superheroic Alternate Id"ie. AnotherSkip with powers In V&V IS "the Rook" I have been playing that character for decades.

 

So much so that the {Character}Rook posting kinda irrates me.

Heh, that's why whenever I see the Champions I go "ack!" See, my first PC was called Nighthawk and that was back in 1982.

 

When I first saw this thread, I was going "What's the big deal?", but then since it's an e-book, I now see the point. I would assume Steve would be the one to ask.