Sean Waters Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Just noticed that in 5ER there are 10 example characters that are male, 2 females and an alien. I was surprised at the balance. Just thought I'd mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Re: Women! You are really... REALLY... bored, aren't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Re: Women! Women! Where? where? Pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Re: Women! You are really... REALLY... bored' date=' aren't you.[/quote'] Incredibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Re: Women! Just noticed that in 5ER there are 10 example characters that are male' date=' 2 females[/quote'] No surprise, given HERO Games' persistent attitude towards women. I mean, they even--in an archaic and chauvinistic move--chose to use the male pronoun throughout the main book. The character balance doesn't surprise me in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Re: Women! I tried writing a rpg once and got much of the way through the introduction before becoming distracted. I was proud of my note on pronouns though: Throughout this tome I will be using both the male and female pronouns. It may sometimes seem that I am just doing this randomly to confuse and annoy you[1]. Footnotes: [1] In which case you are unusually perceptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Re: Women! No surprise' date=' given HERO Games' persistent attitude towards women. I mean, they even--in an archaic and chauvinistic move--chose to use the male pronoun throughout the main book. The character balance doesn't surprise me in the least.[/quote'] You are kidding right? Using the correct form of writing cannot be seen as chauvinism, it can only be seen as... well... writing correctly. Personally I am annoyed by the use of he/she or by the alternate use of one another through the text. As for the balance or male/female character, I guess it only has to do with the target audience. A large portion of the players are male after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APE Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! You are kidding right? Using the correct form of writing cannot be seen as chauvinism, it can only be seen as... well... writing correctly. Personally I am annoyed by the use of he/she or by the alternate use of one another through the text. As for the balance or male/female character, I guess it only has to do with the target audience. A large portion of the players are male after all. Then wouldn't you get a bigger male audeance with more female characters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Then wouldn't you get a bigger male audeance with more female characters? Yeah, that's what I was thinking! Chicks and gay men should be all over HERO given the character gender balance of the books.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! I'm okay with the balance. Primarily because 2/3 of the characters I make are female. For me it all balances out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Yeah' date=' that's what I was thinking! Chicks and gay men should be all over HERO given the character gender balance of the books.... [/quote'] I thought my comment was self-evident but obviously, it fell a little bit short. Allow me to elaborate some more. As for the balance or male/female character, I guess it only has to do with the target audience. A large portion of the players are male after all and a large portion of the players (male or female) tend to identify themselves with characters of the same gender. We can see that trend in action movies and comic books. Of course there are exceptions in both medium (Wonder Woman, Tomb Raider) but still a fairly large portion of the heroes are male because the target audience is male. Think about all the Sly Stallone or Arnold movies. Or all the testosterone characters like Conan, Batman or Wolverine. People generally do not picking up RPG or comic books for sexual arousal. At least not where I come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Just noticed that in 5ER there are 10 example characters that are male' date=' 2 females and an alien. I was surprised at the balance. Just thought I'd mention it. [/quote'] Are you saying we need more aliens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! People generally do not picking up RPG or comic books for sexual arousal. Speak for yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! You are kidding right? Using the correct form of writing cannot be seen as chauvinism' date=' it can only be seen as... well... writing correctly.[/quote'] Correct? What, using one pronoun throughout a text is "correct"? Speaking as both an English professor and published author, I can assure you that isn't the case. Furthermore, I wasn't suggesting using 'he/she' as an alternative; everyone agrees that's clumsy and awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamamura Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! I'm okay with the balance. Primarily because 2/3 of the characters I make are female. For me it all balances out eventually. I am like Blue but I am about 3/4 character's female. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! "Sherman, set the wayback machine to 2002. We're visiting the Hero threads during the gender wars." "Holy quagmire, Mr. Peabody, won't that be dangerous?" "Nonsense, Sherman, We'll wear our flame retardent underwear." Keith "deja vu all over again" Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Correct? What' date=' using one pronoun throughout a text is "correct"? Speaking as both an English professor and published author, I can assure you that isn't the case.[/quote'] I might have misunderstood your meaning. Can you give me an example or two of what you consider a chauvinistic approach (it doesn't have to be from one of the books, it can only be general) and the corresponding correct form according to you? Furthermore' date=' I wasn't suggesting using 'he/she' as an alternative; everyone agrees that's clumsy and awkward. [/quote'] I totally agree. I guess your example, if you are kind enough to provide one, will show me what is the alternative you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Speak for yourself You sick puppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! I might have misunderstood your meaning. Can you give me an example or two of what you consider a chauvinistic approach (it doesn't have to be from one of the books' date=' it can only be general) and the corresponding correct form according to you?[/quote'] I wasn't looking to impose any kind of awkward grammar on anyone and I hope that's not how I came off. My problem is with a nonfiction text (in this case an entire series of gaming books) using the male pronoun exclusively. The outdated rationale that the male pronouns are somehow neuter is totally bogus. When one writes "he," one is referring to men, not men and women. This has been clearly demonstrated time and again in studies, surveys and a million graduate theses. Using one pronoun exclusively will inevitably alienate half of potential readers. This is NOT my opinion, this is NOT anecdotal--I can direct you to the articles, journals, theses and books which illustrate how this process works. I'm not concerned with "correct," I'm concerned with "inclusive." Using male pronouns is certainly correct from a grammatical perspective, but at the end of the day it means that the text is talking about men, period. Inclusive language alternates pronouns. Whenever a generic or nonspecific example is used in the HERO book, a male pronoun is used. Why not swap? Why can't one example use "he" and the next example use "she"? Half-assed compromises like "he/she" and "s/he" are clumsy, ill-fitting and will never catch on in daily use. Learning to think of one's audience as more than white men can catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! I thought my comment was self-evident but obviously, it fell a little bit short. Allow me to elaborate some more Actually I was... just... kidding. Thank you anyway, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! People generally do not picking up RPG or comic books for sexual arousal. Hm, then I won't mention anything about that bard on the cover of D&D's Song and Silence ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Actually I was... just... kidding. Thank you anyway, though! Kidding! We'll have none of that here. These are sereious boards for serious gamers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! "Sherman, set the wayback machine to 2002. We're visiting the Hero threads during the gender wars." "Holy quagmire, Mr. Peabody, won't that be dangerous?" "Nonsense, Sherman, We'll wear our flame retardent underwear." Keith "deja vu all over again" Curtis I wish I could have written the final episode, where it turns out that Mr. Peabody is an evil genius bent on twisting time just a little bit at a time to fit his master plan, and Sherman is his unwitting accomplice. (So much for serious boards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! I wasn't looking to impose any kind of awkward grammar on anyone and I hope that's not how I came off. My problem is with a nonfiction text (in this case an entire series of gaming books) using the male pronoun exclusively. The outdated rationale that the male pronouns are somehow neuter is totally bogus. When one writes "he," one is referring to men, not men and women. This has been clearly demonstrated time and again in studies, surveys and a million graduate theses. Using one pronoun exclusively will inevitably alienate half of potential readers. This is NOT my opinion, this is NOT anecdotal--I can direct you to the articles, journals, theses and books which illustrate how this process works. I'm not concerned with "correct," I'm concerned with "inclusive." Using male pronouns is certainly correct from a grammatical perspective, but at the end of the day it means that the text is talking about men, period. Inclusive language alternates pronouns. Whenever a generic or nonspecific example is used in the HERO book, a male pronoun is used. Why not swap? Why can't one example use "he" and the next example use "she"? Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funksaw Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Re: Women! Just noticed that in 5ER there are 10 example characters that are male' date=' 2 females and an alien. I was surprised at the balance. Just thought I'd mention it. [/quote'] Actually, this is pretty good representation. For every ten male gamers, there are two female gamers and one alien. Go to your local FLGS and count 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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