archermoo Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! Is anyone but me getting flashbacks to the old "sexist language" flamewar we had once upon a time. Does anyone here but me remember that? Indeed I do. It was silly then and is silly now. At least when I was taught english here is how the third person pronouns worked: He: males and any case where gender isn't known She: females It: objects, animals, and plants It has nothing to do with sexism or chauvanism. It has to do with having a language that doesn't have a seperate non gender specific third person pronoun. It means that he gets used more often than she, and that you can always know the gender of the person being refered to as she. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! Interesting to note (I'm not getting into the pronoun thing: I've posted my feelings on that one) that there is plenty of artwork in the book of or featuring women, just not much by way of character examples. I know that there are probably more male players than female (actually I have no idea why I used the word 'probably'), but I often play female characters despite being allegedly male. Interestingly enough I tend to play female characters that have far more presence type skills and a far more softly softly approach than the male characters I play, so my last two characters have been female brick types with little by way of presence type skills to speak of, by way of re-aligning my prejudices (not removing them: let's not be silly, but I do think it helps to move them about a bit so that they don't form ruts) Can't get too comfortable, or we may never want to leave.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlascott Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! Well, from my perspective, since about 99.5% of the paying customers are males, I'd use "he" as the pronoun of choice. Unless the feminists really WANT to kill more trees by insisting that the pronoun in question be expanded by 33% every time it is used (she is 1/3 longer then he), thereby causing the use of more paper, resulting in more clear-cutting of forests, reducing the oxygen and increasing the carbon dioxide in the air, and speeding global warming. If destruction of the environment is ok with the feminists, then I say, fine, use "she " in proportion to the readers (ie., .5% of the time you need a he/she pronoun). Also, I am all for extreme female sexuality being well represented in HERO games art. I might buy extra copies of every book were that the case. I buy the books for the rules, but purdy pictures every 5th page or so dont hurt either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! Euh!?... Please do... (Damn, I am gonna have to look at this book to see what turns Hex on... ) Normally I don't go for long haired blonds, but the way Todd Lockwood painted this guys arms and hands... WOO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! I hope you know I had to go track down my copy just to see. He's a little more... "Fabio" than I expected to see. Yeah as stated in an earlier reply, I don't dig blonds w/long hair... Fabioness aside (ugh), he's got a sensative cast to his features and amazing hands. Give the guy a haircut and I'm set. *fans herself* Seriously though, he's fantasy fodder. Jhamin can attest to this (having heard my rant over the many years we've known each other) but personally I prefer my men soft/a little on the heavy side, with some facial hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tancred Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! I would like to hereby declare that I am personally offended by each and every man, woman, child, transgender, pre- and post- op transsexual, animal, plant, amino acid, artificial intelligence, and other living entity, that has ever and will ever exist. I am also offended by everything that anyone, or anything, has every said, written, thought, or conveyed by their facial expression, body language, mannerism, or tone. As I am alone in this declaration, I am also hereby the smallest group in existence, except for the group of non-existent entities, and I speak for them up until they choose to formally declare in writing that I do not. Therefore, I now claim my right to have everyone and everything live their lives in whatever manner happens to please me at the moment, with no regard for their own happiness, prosperity, or common sense. Anyone not following the above guidelines will be forever branded a NonKA.-centric KA.-ophobe, and will be detained by the thought police for re-education. Thank you for your time, begin sending money now. KA. I am offended that you didn't even mention goblins. We don't even get enough respect to offend anybody. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! Seriously though' date=' he's fantasy fodder. Jhamin can attest to this (having heard my rant over the many years we've known each other) but personally I prefer my men soft/a little on the heavy side, with some facial hair.[/quote'] In that case, the world needs more women like you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Re: Women! I am offended that you didn't even mention goblins. We don't even get enough respect to offend anybody. What? Goblins fall into the "living entity" category . . . at least, until I catch up with them. Just kidding, KA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! What I find particularly offensive is people presuming to tell me (or any- and everyone else) what I mean when I use the word "he". Mass telepathy? Cowshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! What I find particularly offensive is people presuming to tell me (or any- and everyone else) what I mean when I use the word "he". Mass telepathy? Cowshit. Presumably by 'cowshit', you mean 'lumberjack'? Er... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! Hero's immense chauvanism goes much deeper than writing policies. FRED is, in fact, a he. The game itself is a him. When a rule is found within FRED the rule is his rule. FRED is the very personification of a lingam. He is the phallus idol, a tome of the throbbing lingam, the material symbol of masculine power and virility, the essence of the penetration and and subjugation of feminitity. FRED himself is he. FRED himself is the masculinist movement finding its voice. The men's movement given form. FRED is the phallus in the heart of all womens movement's hopes and dreams. This, by the way, remains one of the stupidist concerns I've ever run across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! Hero's immense chauvanism goes much deeper than writing policies. FRED is' date=' in fact, a [i']h[/i]e. The game itself is a him. When a rule is found within FRED the rule is his rule. FRED is the very personification of a lingam. He is the phallus idol, a tome of the throbbing lingam, the material symbol of masculine power and virility, the essence of the penetration and and subjugation of feminitity. FRED himself is he. FRED himself is the masculinist movement finding its voice. The men's movement given form. FRED is the phallus in the heart of all womens movement's hopes and dreams. This, by the way, remains one of the stupidist concerns I've ever run across. I detect a slight aire of sarcasm.....(how did you vote on the movement to call 5ER 'Julie'?) Dragging, kicking and screaming, the 'debate' back to the original point and away from pronouns (LOOK, I AGREE WITH BOTH SIDES, YOU ARE ALL RIGHT, DON'T GIVE THOSE OTHER GITS THE SATISFACTION OF DRAGGING THE ARGUMENT OUT...), I suppose the medium we are representing tends to under-represent women, and when it does represent them, does so in a particular way: cf Hulk and She-Hulk. I don't suppose that Hero is to blame for perpetuating this; arguably to do otherwise would be artificial. Part of me thinks it is a shame. Part of me likes looking at the pictures. Funny really. All that evolution, no real change. Right, pronouns: interesting, is it not, that the information that whoever invented pronouns carries is gender? Why not height or eye colour, or geographical location, or some other aspect? I'm sure the reasons are of historical interest. Now we are arguing about how someone decided to structure language millenia ago. Goooood...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! Hero's immense chauvanism goes much deeper than writing policies. FRED is' date=' in fact, a [i']h[/i]e. The game itself is a him. When a rule is found within FRED the rule is his rule. FRED is the very personification of a lingam. He is the phallus idol, a tome of the throbbing lingam, the material symbol of masculine power and virility, the essence of the penetration and and subjugation of feminitity. FRED himself is he. FRED himself is the masculinist movement finding its voice. The men's movement given form. FRED is the phallus in the heart of all womens movement's hopes and dreams. I don't know what he just said but I'm turned on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! Please please, people just let it die. I know I'm just throwing munchies at the trolls but still. Just let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! The Chinese have genderless pronouns in their spoken language, but not their written language. I think that Hero should take the time to have someone record the book in spoken Mandarin. Then we'll finally have a book that everyone can agree on, ne? Keith "We could call it Kwai Chang Fred" Curtis Ni men, tsai jien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silbeg Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! I am like Blue but I am about 3/4 character's female. G And I would guess that 99% (or more) of male gamers' player characters are male. Even as a GM, I still tend to make more male characters than female, though I have had some exceptional ones in the past (or ones that have been modified from stock characters... such as Starwell or Cateran) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Re: Women! Let's see.... 14 PCs, 2 are female. So some people just seem to have an easier time playing males. Funny they dont' have that problem as GMs. Good think I'm the GM or it would be a world without women (and no one wants that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Re: Women! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPBSD3tOoDA&feature=grec_index Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Re: Women! wth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Re: Women! This this and others like this one need to die. They just anger people and we all know that nothing we post here will change Steve's mind about how to write books for the system. I really like how WoTC dealt with gender in 3rd Edition D&D. They had iconic characters for each of the archetypes and whenever an example dealt with that Archetype then the Archetype's gender would be used. (ie Lidda the Rogue was a Female Halfling Rogue, every example that had a rogue in it refered to Lidda both in name and pronoun (ie She, Her, etc). I found that the rules felt much more open and welcoming of my gender. Also, while there was still a ton of scantilly clad women artwork, there were also many pieces of art with attractive women with practical clothing/armor as well. I found the whole treatment also prevented the awkward he/she construction seen in many rulebooks and also made it so they didn't have to scrub all gender pronouns from the work (ie writing sentences in a gender neutral fashion). I am just sick of the discussion. It's been decided by the current author of the system and the Hero System writer's guidelines. So, it's worthless to waste energy beating our heads against a wall that will never be torn down. Also, the emotion that these threads generate just cause people to become more divided. So lets get back to productive conversations like linked powers, the Fuzion system or figured characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Re: Women! Also' date=' while there was still a ton of scantilly clad women artwork,[/quote'] But it's okay when a male warrior is showing off his well defined abs and pecs, while also wearing a loincloth, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Re: Women! But it's okay when a male warrior is showing off his well defined abs and pecs' date=' while also wearing a loincloth, right?[/quote'] Yes, that's fine. If I had well defined abs and pecs, and a loincloth, I'd be showing off too. I agree with Tasha that 3DnD did gender well. I also agree that we're just thrashing a deceased equine. Kudos on the necromancy though, Escafarc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Re: Women! But it's okay when a male warrior is showing off his well defined abs and pecs' date=' while also wearing a loincloth, right?[/quote'] Sorry don't notice those as much (not wired to notice guys...). Also those tend to be in the very small minority. Usually depictions of guys have them in clothing that are quite practical out of the bedroom, where many RPG art has the women clad in costumes that most women would only wear in the bedroom and not outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmakaze Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Re: Women! Wow, that's some thread necromancy there. I'm thoroughly unsure what the point was of resurrecting this thread from 2005 with a context-free clip from MST3K. I'll grant you, I can pick up pretty much every one of the books and spot the white male perspective, but seriously, we're crossing table-top roleplaying, which is a pretty male-dominated hobby and superhero comics, which is all about boys. (Yeah, HERO has grown beyond Champions, but that's still the core fanbase.) There's going to be a skew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Re: Women! Hero's immense chauvanism goes much deeper than writing policies. FRED is' date=' in fact, a [i']h[/i]e. The game itself is a him. When a rule is found within FRED the rule is his rule. FRED is the very personification of a lingam. He is the phallus idol, a tome of the throbbing lingam, the material symbol of masculine power and virility, the essence of the penetration and and subjugation of feminitity. FRED himself is he. FRED himself is the masculinist movement finding its voice. The men's movement given form. FRED is the phallus in the heart of all womens movement's hopes and dreams. This, by the way, remains one of the stupidist concerns I've ever run across. [ATTACH=CONFIG]37519[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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