Vorsch Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Well thanks to the starwars fanatics. What in the real world can damage def 40 material Nothing not even a nuke when you allow non real effect like AP Pen NND then yes almost anything can damage him. Comparing a superhero game to the real world is just going to show up inconsistiuece that exist in both champions and the comics. (can some one tell me about the real world 6d6rka flame thrower, thats one that burns throuh a foot of tempered steel in 1 second. just curious) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Heh. One of my first bricks started life at 40/40 full resistant. Other bricks could hurt. Body didn't happen much. He's the character that went to 1000 xp. I think in all that time he took body less than 20 times (yes, I wrote it down. I also wrote down everytime he was missed. 8 dex) Real world items, hmm. Not too many out there. Antitank guns, but you were talking about common in a city. Best bet are trains & trucks or some other large bit of transport. Now if you're trying to do body, well most items just aren't going to until you get into the serious military hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... According to pg 304 of 5th Edition (not revised), a 1 meter wall of metal has 17 Body. All a character has to do is exceed that Body to put a man-sized hole in it. Even at a 2D6 NND HKA, a lightsaber is through that in 3 phases, easy. With a Spd 5 Jedi, that's about 6 seconds. It took longer to get through it in the movie than that. And cutting through armored humans? That's storm trooper armor, dude. Ewoks threw rocks that went through that armor. That's ordinary metal. Presumeably this stuff is unusually dense, etc, since it is in a world with advanced technology relative to Earth. And they only had a few seconds to do the cutting (I am NOT a big enough geek to look up how long that took, dammit). More than six, sure, but they were what, 1/3rd of the way through it when they broke off? As for Stormtrooper Armour... I prefer to think of the Ewoks as the problem. Besides. Stormtrooper Armour is Armour for a warrior designed to fight Blaster battles, not melee. It's ineffectiveness versus physical projectiles is less the issue than how it works versus energy. Which I think it does okay. Stormtroopers go down when shot, but the shots don't look like they were killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... That's ordinary metal. Presumeably this stuff is unusually dense, etc, since it is in a world with advanced technology relative to Earth. And they only had a few seconds to do the cutting (I am NOT a big enough geek to look up how long that took, dammit). More than six, sure, but they were what, 1/3rd of the way through it when they broke off? What indication do you have that it's anything other than normal metal? Besides, if it's made of better stuff, that's just more DEF. And, from what I remember from the movie, they spent the equivalent of a few turns standing beside that door, pushing their lightsabers into it, and in the end, had about a 3 foot long cut that they'd made in it. They never actually got through. As for Stormtrooper Armour... I prefer to think of the Ewoks as the problem. Besides. Stormtrooper Armour is Armour for a warrior designed to fight Blaster battles, not melee. It's ineffectiveness versus physical projectiles is less the issue than how it works versus energy. Which I think it does okay. Stormtroopers go down when shot, but the shots don't look like they were killing. Name one time that a stormtrooper got shot with a blaster and didn't fall down. Now why are lightsabers better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Make it a tanker truck full of gasoline... I just had a class on WMD and such. the SHOCK WAVE lethal range of car bombs doesn't increase as fast as one might think. The fragmentation area is FAR larger. A semi has a 60 strength and 21" of movement. That will allow for a 19d6 move-through. If you allow it to attack with its x4 NCM speed it can do up to 40d6. You'd need an above average roll to do any body. If you're just talking about stun damage then any 12d6 attack will do 42 stun on average. A car traveling at high speed [but not NCM speed] can do 14d6. That would get 9 stun through the character's defenses on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... What indication do you have that it's anything other than normal metal? Besides, if it's made of better stuff, that's just more DEF. And, from what I remember from the movie, they spent the equivalent of a few turns standing beside that door, pushing their lightsabers into it, and in the end, had about a 3 foot long cut that they'd made in it. They never actually got through. Name one time that a stormtrooper got shot with a blaster and didn't fall down. Now why are lightsabers better? Lightsabers work well and quickly through normal metal. Besides. Blast Doors _should_ be made of the best stuff you can get a hold of. Different types of materials do have varying BODY per hex. I don't remember them trying to break through for very long, and they had to stop because they were under fire anyway. Okay, okay, Stormtroopers are made of eggshells (did the armour help the heroes? can't remember). The 'sabers do slice equally well through aliens, icebeasts and people though. The only thing I remember ever seeing them go through slowly was that blast door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted March 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... uh...I guess I could be biased, but is this not the worst case of thread hijaking people have seen in a while? Someone posts a question about REAL WORLD things that cold hurt someone and a couple of guys carry on a debate about light sabres? sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... uh...I guess I could be biased, but is this not the worst case of thread hijaking people have seen in a while? Someone posts a question about REAL WORLD things that cold hurt someone and a couple of guys carry on a debate about light sabres? sheesh! You know, you bring up a good point. If I were to write up a lightsaber, it'd be about a 3D6 RKA, no range, with about 5 points Piercing (from Dark Champions) on it. That'll let you cut through cruddy stormtrooper armor like it wasn't even there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Well thanks to the starwars fanatics. What in the real world can damage def 40 material Nothing not even a nuke when you allow non real effect like AP Pen NND then yes almost anything can damage him. Comparing a superhero game to the real world is just going to show up inconsistiuece that exist in both champions and the comics. (can some one tell me about the real world 6d6rka flame thrower, thats one that burns throuh a foot of tempered steel in 1 second. just curious) Oh, real world...? Falling Damage... Look it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... You know, you bring up a good point. If I were to write up a lightsaber, it'd be about a 3D6 RKA, no range, with about 5 points Piercing (from Dark Champions) on it. That'll let you cut through cruddy stormtrooper armor like it wasn't even there. Say what the heck is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... You know, you bring up a good point. If I were to write up a lightsaber, it'd be about a 3D6 RKA, no range, with about 5 points Piercing (from Dark Champions) on it. That'll let you cut through cruddy stormtrooper armor like it wasn't even there. BWA HA HA HA! Hey Speedball, did some of the non Star Wars stuff help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... What in the real world can damage def 40 material Nothing not even a nuke when you allow non real effect like AP Pen NND then yes almost anything can damage him. Comparing a superhero game to the real world is just going to show up inconsistiuece that exist in both champions and the comics. (can some one tell me about the real world 6d6rka flame thrower, thats one that burns throuh a foot of tempered steel in 1 second. just curious) Almost any sizable nuke (15½d6+) will damage 40 DEF. An average roll for a 20d6 point blank nuclear explosion (The Ship Missiles in Star Hero) will leak 12 BODY through. You're right, a 6d6 RKA "flamethrower" would be a plasma jet. I'd rate a real military-type flamethrower as a 2d6 RKA Continuous Uncontrolled. It sets things on fire, like people, and they burn to death over several seconds. It certainly wouldn't burn through a bank vault or other armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tough Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I would suggest gravity and rides through the upper atmosphere from space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incrdbil Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Oh heck, make it easy. Lightsabers are a multipower. Missiel Reflection, killing attack, and about 1" of tunneling vs a very high Defense. now, back to real world things: in the city, their are plenty of hazardous chemicals. Maybe have some liqified oxygen or Nitrogen being transferred ram into the guy. (Move throug damage,the the attack above). Or have him down by the docks and have a LNG ship explode. That should do it. Stolen shipment of c4. Burning Oil refinery. Keep dropping indistrial power cables/transformers on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... a bit looney tunes but drop a safe/piano/sperm whale and bowl of petunias on him from a great height run him down with a car packed with improvised explosives. suicide bombers( probably a couple of dozen) wearing shaped explosive vest run up and hug him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Almost any sizable nuke (15½d6+) will damage 40 DEF. An average roll for a 20d6 point blank nuclear explosion (The Ship Missiles in Star Hero) will leak 12 BODY through. You're right, a 6d6 RKA "flamethrower" would be a plasma jet. I'd rate a real military-type flamethrower as a 2d6 RKA Continuous Uncontrolled. It sets things on fire, like people, and they burn to death over several seconds. It certainly wouldn't burn through a bank vault or other armor. Since a nuke is Energy, nothing physical, including a Terminal velocity fall, is likely to do BODY to 40/30 rDEF. And Energy wise, you need to pull out nukes. Yet enough dynamite, or a high speed collision, could KO him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I've always liked the 130 lb shaped charge warhead on the maverick missile. It should even penetrate an Abrams, and the blast effect is larger than a normal anti-tank missile. Hellfire is supposed to penetrate about 1 meter of steel, so about 1.5-2 times that of the 120mm smoothbore. Anything you think would be represented by a 3.5d6 Rka or higher, with 3 doses of Armor Piercing... That would be an Active Cost of at least 137 points... Cheaper to just go for a 7d6 Rka or higher, ignoring the Armor Piercing... That's an Active Cost of at least 105 points... But the first option would be more likely to hurt him statistically, however... What could be represented by this...? Hmmm... What about a projectile with a shaped explosive charge in its tip...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I would use something similar as the writeup for the vibro-blades as in Gamma WOrld and others that use a vibrating force field. I think you give them too much credit. They're just an energy attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Since a nuke is Energy' date=' nothing physical, including a Terminal velocity fall, is likely to do BODY to 40/30 rDEF.[/quote']That doesn't follow. Damage is damage. Even if the 40/30 rDEF is vs. Energy, a nuke* will still cause damage to the individual in question. In fact if it's even a 12d6+ RKA, against only 30 rED he'll still take 9 BODY or more on an average roll. Even most tough bricks won't be happy after losing 9+ BODY. * And a good case could be made that a nuclear explosion has both Energy and Physical damage components: Radiation, thermal wave, blast wave, radiation. The blast wave, caused by displaced air, is indisputably physical in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted March 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... BWA HA HA HA! Hey Speedball, did some of the non Star Wars stuff help? Yeah, Lemming, a *few* of the posts--the ones, you know, I asked for? They were helpful. The character in question is actually my PC from a game in which there aren't any heroes yet--we're the first ones. So I was just curious what would happen if he just sort of started out stopping street crimes as a tangible way of making a name for himself and gaining some popularity. Anyway, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... A really good stun mutliple and an excellent to hit roll with a couple of high powered machine guns could conceivably knock him out, especially if the firers coordinate. Once he's unconscious, you pinch his nose and mouth shut and suffocate him. For that matter, what's his strength? Use the Spidey/Juggernaut approach and bury him in 40 feet of wet concrete. Keith "seeking the simplest solution" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Yeah, Lemming, a *few* of the posts--the ones, you know, I asked for? They were helpful. The character in question is actually my PC from a game in which there aren't any heroes yet--we're the first ones. So I was just curious what would happen if he just sort of started out stopping street crimes as a tangible way of making a name for himself and gaining some popularity. Anyway, thanks. Street crime is in serious trouble if a guy like that is opposing it. He's more or less immune to drive-bys, baseball bats and stab wounds. I'd watch out for the collateral damage though. People frown on impromptu urban renewal. I'm picturing Rage from his inital Avengers appearances. Even the rocket launcher they got from the Kingpin only staggered him. He pulled a Sampson maneuver on a crack house and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Again... Falling... Terminal Velocity is a 30d6 impact... That's 30 points of Body damage on average, but it can do up to 60 Body... Average damage wouldn't hurt him, but oh would it make him sweat... So my advice is toss him out of an Airplane, or a very high skyscraper... Or have someone blow chunks out of a building, and he's under the rubble when it falls... Same principle in reverse, working better if the rubble is fairly heavy, like large chunks of concrete... Or a safe... A safe or a vault is generally VERY massive... Or have him be under a large plane when its landing gear gives way... Also, look at Highway Accidents... A head on Collision at Highway speeds is a relative velocity of over 100 MPH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Street crime is in serious trouble if a guy like that is opposing it. He's more or less immune to drive-bys, baseball bats and stab wounds. I'd watch out for the collateral damage though. People frown on impromptu urban renewal. I'm picturing Rage from his inital Avengers appearances. Even the rocket launcher they got from the Kingpin only staggered him. He pulled a Sampson maneuver on a crack house and everything. A guy/gal like the one discussed here, with a suit of characteristics and powers proportionate to his/her Defense one is probably clocking in at 700+ pts. and is quite wasted chasing down petty crooks. The character would be either at the start of its superheroing/vigilante career (almost all high-powered superheroes start with street crime, and then refocus on global matters, unless the circumstances of their origin give them a a different kind of enemy from the start), or happens to be nearby when the bank robbery is in progress (the way Superman, She-Hulk, Quasar or Thor generally focus on cosmic stuff, but will lend a hand if a violent crime is in progress in their presence). This only highlights why being a bank robber in Marvel NYC is the riskiest profession in the universe: you just don't risk having the street-level urban vigilantes after you, you constantly run the risk of going under the feet of any of the upzillion Avengers/FF/Secret Defenders/X-Something going shopping in their off-day (and of course, a couple powerful superheroes pairing to stop a sudden violent crime while on a date or mutual relaxation stroll is the classic way comic authors use to spice budding romance/friendships sequences with a little action). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... A guy/gal like the one discussed here' date=' with a suit of characteristics and powers proportionate to his/her Defense one is probably clocking in at 700+ pts. and is quite wasted chasing down petty crooks. [/quote'] Ok. I'll agree with the petty crook part, but when I wrote up Scales he was 275 points with 40/40 2x hard and 75 STR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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