Speedball Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 What could harm a character with 40PD/30rPD and 40ED/30rED? Throw in that his rPD/rED is Hardened x2. I'm thinking in terms of weapons, explosions, etc. I know small arms would just bounce off, but other stuff? I'm at work and nowhere near my books... thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... An M18, a LAW rocket, a wire-guided missile, and just about anything else with 14 DC ap killing attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... A gun which rolls a 6 stun multiple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted March 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... An M18' date=' a LAW rocket, a wire-guided missile, and just about anything else with 14 DC ap killing attack.[/quote'] None of which would be common in a city--or anywhere else, for that matter. I'm curious, too, about something like an 18-wheeler travelling at, say, 30 or 40MPH....any sense of whether this would hurt the character? (70 stun, 30 body, just for reference--this is obviously a high-powered character) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... None of which would be common in a city--or anywhere else' date=' for that matter. I'm curious, too, about something like an 18-wheeler travelling at, say, 30 or 40MPH....any sense of whether this would hurt the character? (70 stun, 30 body, just for reference--this is obviously a high-powered character)[/quote'] A semi has a 60 strength and 21" of movement. That will allow for a 19d6 move-through. If you allow it to attack with its x4 NCM speed it can do up to 40d6. You'd need an above average roll to do any body. If you're just talking about stun damage then any 12d6 attack will do 42 stun on average. A car traveling at high speed [but not NCM speed] can do 14d6. That would get 9 stun through the character's defenses on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I'm glad someone could think of some. I was sitting here since the post went up trying to think of 14D6 attacks in the real world I thought of being hit by a train (or airplane) but didn't have all my source materials. That just left a Terminal Velocity Fall (30D6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... What spd does the semi have? The only real world comparisons are found from the str chart, and having a semi do the same as being crushed by someone with 200str (250 million times the str of the semi) is ......... strange. If you set benchmarks from energy use in normal firearms and str you can scale most attacks at real world equivalents, just because this dosent agree with Hero system metagaming rules (such as AP) is no reason to throw them out. For sake of argument i declare a 1d6Rka as being a normal pistol, its energy is about .005Kg x 320mps / 2 250j of energy A str 15 human throwing a punch or a stone is about the same. Now you have to accept that +1dc represents doubling, this is self evedently true for str but people may disagree that it applies to EB Rka and the like. Also a material with +1res def is meant to be twice as tough, this is a natural extension of +1dc doubling. As to the original question, def 40res represents a material 1billion times more resestant to damage than body armour def 10. Nothing short of supernovas or black holes produces energy at that kind of intensity. I will post examples of dcs for attacks/enviromental, if anyone wants me to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryB Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Tear Gas, Mustard Gas, Flamethrower, Launching him into a Vacuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanith Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Don't forget your everyday average car. At least when it's exploding, I think the damage was 12-15d6 explosion. Other than large (very illegal) firearms, vehicles travelling at top speed, or other super-powered beings that character won't take a scratch. "The stupendous Brick-Man stands in the middle of Fort Bradley's firing range and calls out; "Hit me!" Pop-Brack-Pop-Brack is all that can be heard as the entire platoon of Infantry men unload clip after clip from their newest weapons at Brick-Man. As the last of the noise echoes off the surrounding trees, Brick-Man shrugs and pulls off the remains of his new Ralph Lauren polo and asks; "OK, who's bright idea was it to shoot for my eyes?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Flamethrowers wouldn't work. rED of 30. Would take a 6D6 RKA flamethrower to even hope of landing body and then you'd need to nearly max out the roll to do that. The other attacks, Mustard Gas, Tear Gas, Vacuum etc have a better chance to do something since they'd more then likely be built as NNDs (some that might even do body). As for other stuff, Kinetic Kills (dropping an asteroid on his head), dropping him into the heart of the sun, have him stand at Ground Zero of a nuclear explosion. With defenses like that you'd need some pretty hefty attacks to even make him blink. (Now, we know he can be stunned and knocked out but to actually break the skin is going to take some real honest to god, solid effort). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... A sufficient Find Weakness roll... John T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Do you mean "getting Stun through" or "getting Body through"?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkham Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... A light sabre. Just a 2d6 RKA No Range, NND ( Force field ) Does Body. Or a mental virus. AVLD Mental Defense. Pretty much anything that doesn't try to go through the obvious routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... To get back to the real world items for a moment: A tank column (Abrams tanks; with 8d6 RKA, massed fire could probably take him down) Guns on naval vessesl (5" and up) various Bombs and Missiles (many of these will have a hard time hitting, unless they're precision munitions like JDAM or Tomahawks--and even then, this assumes he either doesn't move real fast, or at least stops once in a while) Traps involving large amounts of high explosives Dropping him in an active volcano, or vat of molten steel, perhaps. Stuffing him into a blast furnace for metal smelting. Sink him into the Marianas trench in the Pacific ocean. (Note that 30rDEF is the same as the front armor of an Abrams as a reference point) On the NND/AVLD-type attacks: Drop him into a holding take for spent nuclear fuel Find out where he sleeps, and asphyxiate him with Nitrogen (that is, fill his sleeping chamber with pure Nitrogen. You can't smell it or see it, and unlike CO2 poisoning it doesn't trigger any gag-type reflexes). Hope that helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Anything you think would be represented by a 3.5d6 Rka or higher, with 3 doses of Armor Piercing... That would be an Active Cost of at least 137 points... Cheaper to just go for a 7d6 Rka or higher, ignoring the Armor Piercing... That's an Active Cost of at least 105 points... But the first option would be more likely to hurt him statistically, however... What could be represented by this...? Hmmm... What about a projectile with a shaped explosive charge in its tip...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Lightsabers aren't NND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Lightsabers aren't NND. I build mine as AVLD: vs Force Fields (+3/4), and does Body (+1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... More to the point, lightsabres aren't REAL WORLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I build mine as AVLD: vs Force Fields (+3/4)' date=' and does Body (+1)[/quote'] I think you give them too much credit. They're just an energy attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I think you give them too much credit. They're just an energy attack. I dunno about that. The Blast Doors slowed them down, but a Blast Door generally has a lot of BODY as well as DEF, and Blasters weren't doing anything to the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I dunno about that. The Blast Doors slowed them down' date=' but a Blast Door generally has a lot of BODY as well as DEF, and Blasters weren't doing anything to the door.[/quote'] Well, maybe they're Armor Piercing. But as you mentioned, the blast doors slowed them down. They wouldn't slow down an NND or AVLD attack at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Well' date=' maybe they're Armor Piercing. But as you mentioned, the blast doors [i']slowed them down[/i]. They wouldn't slow down an NND or AVLD attack at all. Er... yes they would. Having a lot of BODY (which thick metal doors would have) means it takes longer to 'blast a hole' into something. I mean, it would take a while to cut a man sized hole in ANYTHING with a Lightsaber. Even a mud wall. They don't do much BODY in a single hit, even to an unarmoured human (which, incidently, they cut through as easily as a an armoured human). It's not just armour piercing, it's Armour 'I don't give a damn if it's there'ing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... I'd call it a 2d6 HKA vs ED, Penetrating... Maybe 3d6... That would be 45 Active points for 2d6, or 67 Active points for 3d6... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... Er... yes they would. Having a lot of BODY (which thick metal doors would have) means it takes longer to 'blast a hole' into something. I mean, it would take a while to cut a man sized hole in ANYTHING with a Lightsaber. Even a mud wall. They don't do much BODY in a single hit, even to an unarmoured human (which, incidently, they cut through as easily as a an armoured human). It's not just armour piercing, it's Armour 'I don't give a damn if it's there'ing. According to pg 304 of 5th Edition (not revised), a 1 meter wall of metal has 17 Body. All a character has to do is exceed that Body to put a man-sized hole in it. Even at a 2D6 NND HKA, a lightsaber is through that in 3 phases, easy. With a Spd 5 Jedi, that's about 6 seconds. It took longer to get through it in the movie than that. And cutting through armored humans? That's storm trooper armor, dude. Ewoks threw rocks that went through that armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: In Real World Terms... A 2d6 HKA Penetrating would take 8 or 9 phases to cut through a 17 Body door... A 3d6 HKA Penetrating would take 5 or 6 phases, unless those doors have Hardened Defenses, in which case it could take a while... Since they sound like Heavy armor to me, that would be 19 DEF... If they are Hardened, someone would have to put their back into it, and boost the HKA with their STR... That would boost the 3d6 HKA up to a 4d6 HKA, for STR 15, and cut through in a minimum of 4 phases, although statistically it would take more than 50 phases... If a Jedi could get up enough STR, he could boost the 3d6 HKA to a 6d6 HKA... That would cut through in 1 phase with a good roll, but would require the Jedi to be using the Force to boost his STR to 45... But, again, it would *statistically* take around 6 phases even then... I'd call a Lightsaber a 3d6 HKA Penetrating, and assume the doors that were a problem were hardened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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