Is seduction all wrong?

[Guyon]

Glancing through the rules I fond it odd that seduction is based on presence. If that were so the Hulk would be the most suave guy in town. LOL

 

I would think seduction woud be closer to (INT+COM)/2. Beauty with the brains to know how to use it, or better COM + Streetwise modifier.

 

What is considered a resistants to seduction? There are many books where a hero might know not to get close to the sexy villeness but her charms are too great.

[Agent333]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Considering how PRE is used (without skills) it seems to be a measure of Impressiveness and Self-Confidence. In my book, being impressive is not the same as being charming or alluring. You'd have to practice using your impressiveness to make others think you are charming and suave. I think the Seduction skill is a great way to reflect that, for three points you can now get people who notice you to think you are the cat's meow (and the ladies or gentlemen to see you as a prospective sexual conquest).

[Kristopher]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Doesn't Hulk get a lot of his PRE dice from his actions anyway?

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Doesn't Hulk get a lot of his PRE dice from his actions anyway?

 

Yes, and his rep, but he IS kinda imposing, and fearless (but PLEASE don't tell me he has a high EGO ).

 

Thing is, if he was smart, the kind of aura of confident power being able to crush... cars... gives you would probably work in his favour.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

I think a lot of high PRE comic characters have their ability to use it for PRE skills like Seduction eroded by their Distinctive Features. The Hulk may be scary, but he's not going to attract a lot of people to stick around and converse with him.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Seducton, like most interaction skills, is a combination of game mechanics, role playing and common sense.

 

It is fine being based off of Presence - which is a reflection of how well you present yourself, display of confidence and other social factors used to make you look, well, good. Seduction is using all that to get someone to fall for you, usually with sexual overtones (or promises thereof) - otherwise you want Persuasion if you're just getting them to do your bidding, which uses a slightly different set of Presence skills - like being a giant green hulk.

[CourtFool]

Hulk != the new Cassanova

 

From a simply mechanic stand point, PRE is the correct Characteristic. Seduction is an interaction skill and all interaction skills are based on PRE.

 

Personally, I see your arguement for the Hulk as flawed. I can see him having PRE but with a limitation Only For Intimidation. I do not read the series, so I could be way off base here but I do not think the Hulk has any interaction skills at all. He is not charming and charismatic.

 

It has also been discussed [thread=19763]here[/thread] that Seduction is more than getting in the pants of the opposite sex. It is almost like a temporary contact. I do not really see that having a lot to do with COM. I could see a penalty maybe for a very low COM but, average or above not so much. Well maybe with the opposite sex again but you could just make it a complimentary roll in that case.

 

An argument could certainly be made for INT although I have known people that were charming but not too bright.

[Guyon]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

I agree that both INT could add to the Seduction if they know how to use it to become more seductive to a target, and see the point that just having a high int would not make make you more attractive as in the case of Einstein.

 

The topic of seduction could be as complicated as you would like it to be, and I am now not sure if any game mechanic could capture it.

 

That said can anyone anwer the question:

What is considered a resistant to seduction? There are many books where a hero might know not to get close to the sexy villeness but her charms are too great.

What is it you would use to try and resist an impossibly compelling lure?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hulk != the new Cassanova

 

Personally' date=' I see your arguement for the Hulk as flawed. I can see him having PRE but with a limitation Only For Intimidation. I do not read the series, so I could be way off base here but I do not think the Hulk has any interaction skills at all. He is not charming and charismatic.[/quote']

 

I think a lot of these characters could justifiably have PRE only for purposes of PRE attacks and defending against PRE attacks. They're scary, and tough to impress, but they don't have social skills.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

The solution is very simple, and doesn't require kludging the Hulk's PRE (which he would also be able to use to resist intimidation at any rate).

 

Don't buy Seduction for the Hulk.

 

It's like saying Energy Blast is broken, because 60 points would give the Hulk powerful optic blasts. He does not need Seduction by concept, so don't buy it for him.

 

Keith "QED" Curtis

[Trebuchet]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

That said can anyone anwer the question:

 

What is it you would use to try and resist an impossibly compelling lure?

Well, an oath of celibacy or marriage vows can go a long way towards that end. If you don't sleep around in the first place, resisting the "irresistable" temptress becomes a much simpler exercise.

[Fox1]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Glancing through the rules I fond it odd that seduction is based on presence. If that were so the Hulk would be the most suave guy in town. LOL

 

I would think seduction woud be closer to (INT+COM)/2. Beauty with the brains to know how to use it, or better COM + Streetwise modifier.

 

What is considered a resistants to seduction? There are many books where a hero might know not to get close to the sexy villeness but her charms are too great.

 

 

PRE works as a baseline to indicate how well one does with what one has.

 

I've always ran the result as character's choice, same with all the PRE based skills. A good roll means a good attempt- it doesn't really mean that I should toss out years of character history if we're dealing someone who's committed to their wife or an oath. So I look at the rolling character what it brings to the table and what the 'defender' brings to the table. Sometimes the roll is just icing, other times it won't work not matter what- but it will get you noticed.

 

If one whats to overide that and say I must succeed at this no matter how faithful that guy is... well that's what Mind Control is for now isn't it?

[Guyon]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

But wouldn't the resist VS Seduction roll be better based on INT or EGO?

[Fox1]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

But wouldn't the resist VS Seduction roll be better based on INT or EGO?

 

If you want to make a opposed roll, go ahead. Either stat can work depending.

 

My only point is that PRE based skills roll results should only be a suggestion, (a measure of how good the attempt was, not it's result) in games like HERO where you have more expensive ways of forcing the issue like Mind Control.

 

Otherwise you're getting a heck of deal for 3 points. Unless of course you're doing a straight 'normals' campaign. Even then, I'd never force the issue just because of a skill roll. Others here may.

[Kristopher]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

I agree that both INT could add to the Seduction if they know how to use it to become more seductive to a target, and see the point that just having a high int would not make make you more attractive as in the case of Einstein.

 

The topic of seduction could be as complicated as you would like it to be, and I am now not sure if any game mechanic could capture it.

 

That said can anyone anwer the question:

 

What is it you would use to try and resist an impossibly compelling lure?

 

Keep reminding yourself that she's a loose woman, and probably has social diseases.

 

 

[yamamura]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

When designing the Hulk you can buy some of that PRE only for PRE attacks. The reverse is also true for the sexy babe, she may only have a 13 PRE for dealing with PRE attack but have extra for making friendly PRE attacks, seduction or persuasion.

 

G

[David Blue]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

My only point is that PRE based skills roll results should only be a suggestion, (a measure of how good the attempt was, not it's result) in games like HERO where you have more expensive ways of forcing the issue like Mind Control.

 

Otherwise you're getting a heck of deal for 3 points. Unless of course you're doing a straight 'normals' campaign. Even then, I'd never force the issue just because of a skill roll. Others here may.

I agree - Seduction is a good try, not a result.

 

Otherwise it would be easy to destroy characters dedicated to celibacy, with vows, married and so on.

[Guyon]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Well I had the pleasure to play in an RPG where one night, where not 1 roll was made. It was fun to say the lest.

 

@Fox1 RE:

Otherwise you're getting a heck of deal for 3 points.

 

Taking from the Sailor Moon Rules (which are very nicely done). We have always played rolls on how much you have succeed by give a more clear result. For example: Say you were chasing a villain and he jumped across two roofs (Highly successfully). As you follow you make you jump success by a large number. You hit the other roof and nary miss a beat. A lower number might have you fall as you hit the other side. While a near miss might leave you dangling and have to pull your self up leaving the villain running off in the distance. Ont the other hand if the villain barely makes it he find find himself looking up at the hero on the other side as he dangled. this adds so much color to situations.

 

I think same for seduction. A 3 point base seduction will not give you that much leverage for a huge success on a roll. So if a player puts himself in an awkward situation. Then maybe a strong enough successful roll might leave him with some consequences? No matter what his personal promises or commitments are. ti happens a lot in the comics and rewards better players form getting into situation where any problems could occur.

 

Which is why I am looking for what the verse should be.

 

 

@David Blue: So using the above, 1- The villain would have to have a very high seduction and 2 - the hero would have to put them into a situation that they should let not happen to get a big enough roll to ruin a marriage.

 

In no way should rolls run the game, but sometimes they can sway the outcome of a decision. Couples have problems in comics, as well as real like. Fortuity in the games it is just pencils and paper. If a player does something stupid, then he may put himself in a situation where a roll determines an outcome.

 

It been a fun chat though interrupting rules.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Well I had the pleasure to play in an RPG where one night' date=' where not 1 roll was made. It was fun to say the lest.[/quote']

I do that all the time. It's called the Amber Diceless RPG. Of course, if you're talking HERO or some other system that's supposed to use dice...I've done that, too, and you're right -- it is a lot of fun when that happens!

[David Blue]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

I think same for seduction. A 3 point base seduction will not give you that much leverage for a huge success on a roll. So if a player puts himself in an awkward situation. Then maybe a strong enough successful roll might leave him with some consequences? No matter what his personal promises or commitments are. ti happens a lot in the comics and rewards better players form getting into situation where any problems could occur.

 

Which is why I am looking for what the verse should be.

 

@David Blue: So using the above, 1- The villain would have to have a very high seduction and 2 - the hero would have to put them into a situation that they should let not happen to get a big enough roll to ruin a marriage.

Walk through this for me. (grin)

 

This is a historical game, let's say.

 

Joan of Arc does not wish to lose her virginity. But for the English to go back to beating the French she must lose it, and with it the confidence of her supporters.

 

(The body of a virgin cannot be possessed by the Devil, while a "fallen" woman displaying such "unnatural competence" could be "reasonably" presumed to be a vessel of demonic power, and would likely be burned by the French, never mind an English-bought court. In any case, her moral authority to lead would be destroyed.)

 

Forth steps Dick Willing, the most seductive man in Normandy, and makes his way to the Maid, to do his patriotic bit for the English crown. His Seduction roll is high (he's the best), and he rolls low, let's say a three.

 

Does history change its course?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

Glancing through the rules I fond it odd that seduction is based on presence. If that were so the Hulk would be the most suave guy in town. LOL

 

I would think seduction woud be closer to (INT+COM)/2. Beauty with the brains to know how to use it, or better COM + Streetwise modifier.

I think that PRE is the best Characteristic to base Seduction on. It doesn't take brains or looks, just charm and charisma, to influence people like that.

 

What is considered a resistants to seduction? There are many books where a hero might know not to get close to the sexy villeness but her charms are too great.

 

EGO, pure and simple. PRE/interactions skills are almost always about getting other people to do or believe things that you want them to. One way to put it is that you are getting them to act against their better judgement. That sounds like a willpower issue to me. They might know better, even consciously, but the weak willed, the spineless, gullible and meek are easier to influence. (Note: I'm aware that some of those can also describe a character with a low PRE, but I tend to view EGO and PRE and the flip sides of the same coin. EGO is the half the keeps yourself going while PRE is the half that motivates/influences others.)

 

P.S.: Seductions is not the "get laid" Skill. It's about earning trust and influencing other's feelings and desires (not necessarily, or even as a default, sexual). To seduce someone is to lead them astray and/or convince them to neglect their duty, and nothing more. Just turns out a lot of people think things like sex is important, so having it or not having it becomes a major issue of being seduced... even though one can be seduced by a friend or stranger into taking a day off work when you shouldn't, stopping by the bar when you know you need to be someplace else or even picking up that new gaming book despite you haven't paid the electric bill yet, and none of those activities have anything to do with sex or romance.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

P.S.: Seductions is not the "get laid" Skill. It's about earning trust and influencing other's feelings and desires (not necessarily' date=' or even as a default, sexual). To seduce someone is to lead them astray and/or convince them to neglect their duty, and nothing more. Just turns out a lot of people think things like sex is important, so having it or not having it becomes a major issue of being seduced... even though one can be seduced by a friend or stranger into taking a day off work when you shouldn't, stopping by the bar when you know you need to be someplace else or even picking up that new gaming book despite you haven't paid the electric bill yet, and none of those activities have anything to do with sex or romance.[/quote']

I know that, but it never occured to me to point it out. Good call, Dust Raven.

 

"Vader was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force..."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

 

"Vader was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force..."

 

And I can guarentee you he hasn't been laid since

[Guyon]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

I love your sig Dr. Anomaly one of the best I have seen. LOL

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is seduction all wrong?

 

I love your sig Dr. Anomaly one of the best I have seen. LOL

Thanks...but which one? I wrote a script to automatically change my sig every so often, and there's a whole bunch of quotes and such that cycle through that sign...