Fox1 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 So I'm setting here converting Marvel characters into HERO 5e (most are BBB or earlier) for our long standing campaign that has gotten moving again in recent days... And I come to Emma Frost. Some really interesting things (some not so of course) had happen to her in the comics in recent years and I decide to combine some of them into her as she exists in our campaign. And realized that I don't know hardly anything about her Diamond Form secondary mutation. I know I'm handling it with Multi-form as she loses all her mental abilities except for her defenses in this form. I know she has very high defenses (a couple of things I've seen indicate REALLY high defenses). Beyond that I'm clueless as I haven't read the comics, just overviews of them. So, give me the low down. Does she have super strenght, how strong? Any other abilities, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics i dont belive shes any stronger but she is invunerable (unless you hit her flaw which causes her to break into tiny bits) also not only does she lose all her mental powers she becomes invunerable to mental powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics i dont belive shes any stronger but she is invunerable (unless you hit her flaw which causes her to break into tiny bits) also not only does she lose all her mental powers she becomes invunerable to mental powers That's it? Basically just an abort to being invulnerable? That not only doesn't require a multi-form, it's rather boring besides. I think I'll grab some hints from the X-Men Legends game (first console game I've played in years. Greatness) and do her as a mid-level brick in this form. Will be more fun for the player that way and is a better use of the concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Emma Frost turns to diamond? That's... odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Archeville Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Yeah, it's her "Secondary Mutation" (something Morrison introduced in his run on New X-Men; other secondary mutations include Beast's now leonine form and Angel's ability to heal people with his blood). When she's in her diamond form, she's immune to mental attacks/powers, but her own psychic senses/powers are all completely shut off. The "flaw" bit can either be a true flaw in her form (Reqires Activation Roll for her Damage Resistance?), or can be interpreted as a power that the guy who hit her and broke her diamond-form nose had (specifically, Find Weakness). I personally go for the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDad Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Another by-product of her secondary mutation... her angst level increases proportionally to the number of times she is unable to "sense those around her". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Yeah' date=' it's her "Secondary Mutation" (something Morrison introduced in his run on [b']New X-Men[/b]; other secondary mutations include Beast's now leonine form and Angel's ability to heal people with his blood)... Wow. I've been away a loooong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Wow. I've been away a loooong time. So... Did you know she's with Scott now because Phoenix came back in time after her 'death' and whipped some Mind Control on her husband so that he'd take up Emma on her offer to run the school together and thus have a reason to live? One couldn't make this stuff up if one tried- unless you watched soap operas as a profession. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDad Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Ack.... No wonder my favorite X-Days were back when Wolverine wore yellow & blue. Ah, Classic X-Men... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Archeville Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics I've heard Whedon's doing good stuff on Astonishing X-Men, putting things back itno a more four color feel and less a "gritty/angst-y/biker-wear" vibe. Getting back to Emma, I don't believe she's shown any degree of Superhuman strength while in her diamond form, just a surpassing degree of resistance to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics One episode mentioned that Emma didn't need to eat or drink while in her dimond form, and he could hold her form for a very long time (months, at least). So at least 25 points life support, probably 30. And 0 END on the dimond form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics I've heard Whedon's doing good stuff on Astonishing X-Men, putting things back itno a more four color feel and less a "gritty/angst-y/biker-wear" vibe. Getting back to Emma, I don't believe she's shown any degree of Superhuman strength while in her diamond form, just a surpassing degree of resistance to injury. You heard wrong- When it comes to X-Men, Whedon's a hack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics I've heard Whedon's doing good stuff on Astonishing X-Men, putting things back itno a more four color feel and less a "gritty/angst-y/biker-wear" vibe. Yeah Astonishing is the first X-book that has tempted me to buy it since about '86. Some of the best stuff done in the X-verse in a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Yeah' date=' it's her "Secondary Mutation" (something Morrison introduced in his run on [b']New X-Men[/b]; other secondary mutations include Beast's now leonine form and Angel's ability to heal people with his blood). When she's in her diamond form, she's immune to mental attacks/powers, but her own psychic senses/powers are all completely shut off. The "flaw" bit can either be a true flaw in her form (Reqires Activation Roll for her Damage Resistance?), or can be interpreted as a power that the guy who hit her and broke her diamond-form nose had (specifically, Find Weakness). I personally go for the latter. While the whole concept of 'secondary mutation' is incredibly annoying to me, I will speak up and say that Morrison isn't the first x-writer to have done someting this stupid. Back in the bad old days, Leifield decided to put the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants back together. He had Toad, who had developed the ability to secrete noxious chemicals, (Toad claimed he'd given himself that power) Phantazia (some less than memorable character), Sauron (yeah, yeah, like the Juggernaut, he's not a mutant, I know), Pyro and the Blob. Blob, apparently, has put on a few more pounds and like a foot + in height. He'd also gone from low-end superstrength like picking up a car to upper-tier brick in addition to his gravity field powers. I'm pretty sure that serves as an excuse to introduce secondary mutations, even if it's a pretty dumb idea. At least Beast, Angel and Caliban all have the excuse of having had their genetic codes further altered with genetic engineering, Beast having done it for kicks or whatever, and the latter two turned into Horsemen and powered up by Apocalypse. That would account for them changing almost as often as Spidey developed power complications when exposed to stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics All "Secondary Mutations" are is comic parlance for "radiation accident"- a way for established characters to start spending their stored experience in new and different directions rather than just as a natural extension of their existing abilities. I must say that Emma turning to diamond and Hank becomeing leonine in nature annoys, but I've seen a lost worse things over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics As a general rule, I typically hate most changes of major characters to be less than... idea. Some however are useful. Giving Angel healing and 'hard light bolts' was a good idea to help out a otherwise near worthless character (I CAN FLY! big whoop). So much so I grabbed the abilities and tossed them on his character sheet even through they took away the 'hard light bolts' and used the bad concept of his blood being used for healing (I just gave him simple healing instead). Emma always had the problem of being a glass jaw in addition to being a half power copy of Jean. The actual comic ability isn't ideal, but giving her a mid-brick with high defenses mult-form is kinda of cool. Add in the fact she'll use her telepathy in ways Jean won't- and she's now a neat team member for an X-Men based game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Archeville Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Giving Angel healing and 'hard light bolts' was a good idea to help out a otherwise near worthless character (I CAN FLY! big whoop). He was also fairly wealthy, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics While I think the changes they've done to established characters are pretty bogus, the "one-power mutant" has hardly been the only model out there. There are several out there with multiple unrelated abilities, though one is usually much weaker than their main power. Some examples: Nightcrawler - prehensile tail and teleport? Likely that at least some of his agility is a mutation as well. Wolverine - what do super-healing and super-senses have to do with each other? Magneto - Magnetics and telepathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics While I think the changes they've done to established characters are pretty bogus, the "one-power mutant" has hardly been the only model out there. There are several out there with multiple unrelated abilities, though one is usually much weaker than their main power. Some examples: Nightcrawler - prehensile tail and teleport? Likely that at least some of his agility is a mutation as well. Wolverine - what do super-healing and super-senses have to do with each other? Magneto - Magnetics and telepathy. Nightcrawler is actually prehensile feet and tail, nightcrawling, darkness invisibility, enhanced agility, and the teleporting. If anything, his teleportation is the secondary mutation. Wolverine- Not sure how the powers are linked, except that he was originally intended to be an almost vampiric mutant, according to something I read by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum. Magneto- yeah, Lee did dort of go off on tangents sometimes to make things fit what he needed for a story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Archeville Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Nightcrawler - prehensile tail and teleport? Likely that at least some of his agility is a mutation as well. Nightcrawler was originally developed by David Cockrum for DC Comics, to be used in their Legion of Super Heroes. Cockrum intended him to be a member of an extradimensional race that was the basis for many of the myths of demons; when wizards in ages past summoned forth demons, they were actually opening dimensional portals to his home realm. Nightcrawler's main thing was a bestial/nocturnal body & animalistic mannerisms, and the teleportation was something used rarely b/c it used up too much energy. Wolverine - what do super-healing and super-senses have to do with each other? Predatory ability. Enhanced senses to track prey, healing factor to help survive the fight to take down that prey. Magneto - Magnetics and telepathy. .... I got nothin'. ( Actually, I believe it has been stated in a few comincs that in the Marvel Universe, psionic energy is a part of the electromagentic spectrum; this is even mroe true now since the X-Man transmogrified into pure psionic energy and interlaced himself with Earth's EM field. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Nightcrawler is actually prehensile feet and tail, nightcrawling, darkness invisibility, enhanced agility, and the teleporting. If anything, his teleportation is the secondary mutation. Not to mention his charm and ability to bag righteous babes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Nightcrawler is actually prehensile feet and tail, nightcrawling, darkness invisibility, enhanced agility, and the teleporting. If anything, his teleportation is the secondary mutation. Wolverine- Not sure how the powers are linked, except that he was originally intended to be an almost vampiric mutant, according to something I read by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum. Magneto- yeah, Lee did dort of go off on tangents sometimes to make things fit what he needed for a story. Wolverine: Originaly was going to be just a pair of gloves and a really bad attitude canadian wearing them His senses are tied into his healing factor, essentialy the sensory organs have improved do to the healing factor causing the sensory nerves to be more abundant or some psudo scientific explanation similar to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Yeah, maybe, but I still wouldn't let the player put his enhanced senses into his "Mutant Healing Factor" EC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDad Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics ( Actually' date=' I believe it has been stated in a few comincs that in the Marvel Universe, psionic energy is a part of the electromagentic spectrum; this is even mroe true now since the X-Man transmogrified into pure psionic energy and interlaced himself with Earth's EM field. )[/quote'] Erk.... Who writes this stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDad Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Calling Marvel fanatics Wolverine: Originaly was going to be just a pair of gloves and a really bad attitude canadian wearing them Eh, you ate my back-bacon, hoser. Prepare to like, eh. bleed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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