Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

[Fox1]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

GM: "Here's uber villain! Your wimp powers can't defeat me! Look Nukes bah! Hulk flash vision dead bah! etc... etc... etc...."

 

Players: "Looks like we need a plot device. Again."

 

 

I have two questions.

 

Why are we playing this game?

 

And wasn't the last few hundred times we've seen this story enough?

[Guest C--]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

GM: "Here's uber villain! Your wimp powers can't defeat me! Look Nukes bah! Hulk flash vision dead bah! etc... etc... etc...."

 

Players: "Looks like we need a plot device. Again."

 

 

I have two questions.

 

Why are we playing this game?

 

And wasn't the last few hundred times we've seen this story enough?

 

It's a decent story. Exiles is one of the few comics I read anymore. The Hyperion arc was especially entertaining. His introduction has actually moved the overall plotline along quite a bit, which you would know, had you read the story.

 

Why are we debating who would beat him? 'Cause it's fun.

[Fox1]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

It's a decent story. Exiles is one of the few comics I read anymore. The Hyperion arc was especially entertaining. His introduction has actually moved the overall plotline along quite a bit' date=' which you would know, had you read the story..[/quote']

 

This is likely the reason. A personal like of the story.

 

I'm jaded, I've already read the same basic thing too many times to care anymore unless it involves a fav character of mine. None of the Exiles count although I sort of like Blink (she's there isn't she?).

 

 

Why are we debating who would beat him? 'Cause it's fun.

 

I don't know if I would ever call who beat who threads fun...

 

Oh well, to each their own.

 

What happened to the ultimate nullifier btw?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

This is likely the reason. A personal like of the story.

 

I'm jaded, I've already read the same basic thing too many times to care anymore unless it involves a fav character of mine. None of the Exiles count although I sort of like Blink (she's there isn't she?).

 

 

 

 

I don't know if I would ever call who beat who threads fun...

 

Oh well, to each their own.

 

What happened to the ultimate nullifier btw?

I think they'd have to get the drop on him to use that...

 

my interest in starting the thread was not just to see who people might pick, but how they approached it--did they try a brute force approach, a sentimental favorite characters approach, a clever use of characters with plot device powers of their own?

 

What would be their criteria in forming such a force? etc.

[Fox1]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

I think they'd have to get the drop on him to use that....

 

If they could get the drop on the Big G, they could get the drop on this guy. All-seeing knowledge isn't one of his powers- yet.

 

 

What would be their criteria in forming such a force? etc.

 

More interesting by a little. It's why I read some of the thread to begin with.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

If they could get the drop on the Big G, they could get the drop on this guy. All-seeing knowledge isn't one of his powers- yet.

 

 

 

 

More interesting by a little. It's why I read some of the thread to begin with.

oh, the other reason why no ultimate nullifier--the challenge specifies nothing overly gimmicky, like "Steve has the Infinity Gauntlet", or "Aunt May has three cosmic cubes" kinda stuff.

[Moody Loner]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

Okay, I've got it.

 

Gary and WhammeWhamme draw Hyperion into the interminable Lariat debate, then Moody Loner Kamehamehas him.

 

Wait, none of us are Marvel characters. Dammit.

[assault]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

my interest in starting the thread was not just to see who people might pick, but how they approached it--did they try a brute force approach, a sentimental favorite characters approach, a clever use of characters with plot device powers of their own?

 

What would be their criteria in forming such a force? etc.

 

OK, revisiting my team in these terms...

 

1. The FF are my favourite Marvel team. (I mainly read DC). Therefore, my initial instinct is to use them as a core. So that's "sentimental favorite characters" there.

 

2. However... Reed is the master of the Plot Device. He is the absolute master of "whipping out a gadget" in the Marvel universe. That's really what makes the FF a top grade team, even though their actual powers have seen plenty of inflation over the decades. So the FF have the power to do the job.

 

3. The FF have lots of experience fighting cosmic weenies. Even this inflated Hyperion is nothing special compared to all the other cosmic weenies they have fought.

 

4. I've only specified four slots. There's still plenty of room for tweaking beyond that. Artistically, it would be best to draw from established allies of the FF - perhaps the Inhumans, maybe the Silver Surfer(!), Namor, or, heck, even Dr Doom! There's plenty of power there. (Even Uatu the Watcher might tag along to see what happens.)

 

Failing that, you could add the Avengers to the mix, or stick in some oddbods like Dr Strange. He's crossed over with the FF at least once.

 

In fact, however, any of the major Marvel Universe groups ought to be able to handle this situation, because that's what they do. The FF, the Avengers, and the X-Men should all be up to the job. They've all fought and defeated all powerful weenies before, and, no doubt, they will do it again.

 

It's really just a matter of picking the team (and lineup) that you prefer.

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

my interest in starting the thread was not just to see who people might pick, but how they approached it--did they try a brute force approach, a sentimental favorite characters approach, a clever use of characters with plot device powers of their own?

 

What would be their criteria in forming such a force? etc.

A lot of people went for a team approach: let the Avengers do it, or let the Fantastic Four do it, or let them both do it. This is very justifiable when you consider the propensity of heroes to get in each others way if they lack a history of cooperation and preferably teamwork.

 

Sentimental favourite characters may have been favoured, but Daredevil didn't make any teams I noticed. A lot of low-powered characters' names were posted, but they were more about mocking the idea of the thread than trying to play the game, so if anything they would be least-favourite characters.

 

A list of heavy hitters was a common approach. Such lists were typically thick with high-threat villains. But nobody used an all-villain team. However some people did pick all-hero teams, very deliberately.

 

As far as I can see, there were three approaches to finding a weakness on the villain and using it:

1. The start from scratch approach. I had a couple of find weakness merchants up front (Karnak and Captain America), a network, and a gadgetry team.

2. The familiar back door approach - Leech and Rogue. The idea here seems to be: we already know what generally works as a good back-door, so let's just get to the pull-don't-push attack. Sound thinking: that seems to have been tried in the comics with good results.

3. The perfect solution approach - Nighthawk with the green Argonite bullet. That's hard to argue with, if you've got the knowledge to pull it off, and selecting Nighthawk says you do have that knowledge.

 

Any other patterns or categories people noticed?

[pinecone]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

Well I suggested Scarlet witch and long shot...after all I'd rather be lucky than good...

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

Well I suggested Scarlet witch and long shot...after all I'd rather be lucky than good...

Good, that's another sensible approach for the list.

 

And the Scarlet Witch got a few votes.

 

Were you thinking of another way to bypass defenses, equivalent to the drain/transfer attack route? If so, that seems very well founded. The Scarlet Witch has been invaluable again and again because her hex power seems to disregard normal rules.

 

Were you trying to accumulate a critical mass of good luck, as it were, so completely implausible results like beating new Hyperion might happen in a single thunderstroke? I can see the appeal, but what about when Longshot luck goes wrong? It doesn't do to overstrain it.

 

Did you have no special plan? I agree that luck is a great asset, but Longshot and even more the Scarlet Witch is an obvious vulnerable target. I think we want something positive to happen in our favor before they get flashed and ashed.

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

GM: "Here's uber villain! Your wimp powers can't defeat me! Look Nukes bah! Hulk flash vision dead bah! etc... etc... etc...."

 

Players: "Looks like we need a plot device. Again."

What do you mean by "plot device" in this context? Or since you are putting the phrase in the mouths of imaginary players, what are you saying they would mean?

 

I have two questions.

 

Why are we playing this game?

 

And wasn't the last few hundred times we've seen this story enough?

To answer the second question first: no it wasn't enough.

 

I'm playing this game because I find it fun and it's teaching me things about how I think and how other people think. Good things.

 

I've addressed the challenge the same way I would in a game. You can see what I think matters: moral and character issues, motivation and reliability, powers and power levels, coordination, having a leader and a sensible plan and preferably a backup plan or last resort. You can see how I started with what I think have to be the final panels of the comic - a Mister Fantastic super-gadget takes new Hyperion out - and I walked back through the things that have to happen before that, and people who would be needed to do those things. You can see the emphasis on bricks at the brunt. I have not "hidden my game" at all: you could look at this thread and make a good guess at how I'd act as player, or what expectations I would have of the players as a gamemaster.

 

Now I'm interested in stepping into the shoes of other people who made up different lists for what seemed to them to be good reasons, which they may not have spelled out explicitly before. I think in future this might contribute in a small way to me treating the ideas of other players or a gamemaster's assumptions with more sympathy, which is a good thing.

[McCoy]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

Well I suggested Scarlet witch and long shot...after all I'd rather be lucky than good...

Where I allowed to bring in two more, would definitely be Vision and Scarlet Witch. Could with very little persuading bring them in instead of Spider-Girl and Wild Thing.

[Evil102]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

They could be a villain' date=' but please, no gimmicky "and he's got the Infinity Gauntlet" type of picks. [/quote']

 

Guess that rules out the Master Order / Chaos / Eternity / Elders of the Universe combo then..

 

Ah hell, just send in Thanos but make sure that the battle takes place in a one-off Thanos special rather than the regular Exiles run (special double-size crossover!). You know for sure that the writers will have Hyperion shamelessly manipulated by purple-boy all issue and then bumped off on the second-to last page. Thanos then moves on to challenge the mutiverse in the Infinity Crossover, an eight-issue maxi-event...

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

It's kinda funny--the argonite thing hasn't been brought up yet in the comic...

I don't think this Hyperion is a quasi-Superman with a quasi-Kryptonite problem. I think he's a quasi-Mr. Mxyzptlk problem, except that he's a multi-global mass killer. You have to get him to say his own name backwards, or in this case get him to flashvision himself to death. (And then you have to get him to stay dead, because I think Joker-style interminable reruns for a villain like new Hyperion are a terrible idea.)

 

There are lots of approaches to this, such as using illusions and robots that act as energy batteries and transmitters, then setting off a flashvision bomb. The problems are:

1. To get the best people doing this, so it's working technology, not daydreaming.

2. To beat his supersenses and suspicion, so the fox doesn't smell the trap.

3. To keep new Hyperion from destroying you or lots of other people in the meantime.

 

My reason for thinking it has to be flashvision is: he's massively vulnerable to it. The reason I think he's massively vulnerable is, it's not energetic enough to have done for him before otherwise. According to my admittedly primitive understanding, a nuclear explosion is mostly a bright flash plus secondary effects. What does flashvision produce by the way of secondary effects? So we're talking about many halvings of that bright energy dump, yet it was the return-to-sender flashvision, not a nuclear explosion that did for Hyperion.

 

The rest is setting up the appropriate mirror trap.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

actually it was a Gambit that did for hyperion the first time not his own flash vision.

 

After Blink rebounded hyperions flash vision which put him down but not out, the Gambit from weapon X delivered a suicidal attack based on pumping all his power into a sword and lettng it detonate.

 

now if you could only get that to work again but this time have AOA Sabretooth eat the left overs he's not going to regenrate from that.

[Fox1]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

oh' date=' the other reason why no ultimate nullifier--the challenge specifies nothing overly gimmicky, like "Steve has the Infinity Gauntlet", or "Aunt May has three cosmic cubes" kinda stuff.[/quote']

 

But a Reed Richards super device counts?

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

Another approach I should list: a couple of people went for an alteration attack: shrinking.

 

actually it was a Gambit that did for hyperion the first time not his own flash vision.

 

After Blink rebounded hyperions flash vision which put him down but not out, the Gambit from weapon X delivered a suicidal attack based on pumping all his power into a sword and lettng it detonate.

Thank you. I misinterpreted this. Obviously the magical attack was not just icing on the cake but essential.

 

... the evil' date=' and nigh-unstoppable Hyperion. The last time he was defeated was via trickery--Blink reflect-teleported his own "flash vision" into his spine, then Gambit charged up Magik's soulsword and blew him to bits.[/quote']OK, two things.

 

First, Doctor Strange needs to do a little research and see what happened to the Sorcerers Supreme of the realities Hyperion depopulated. Hyperion's obviously not fully magic-proof, so how's he been getting away with this?

 

Second there's now a powerful argument for making the blocking team heavy with magical weapons, like this:

1. Beta Ray Bill, with Storm Breaker.

2. The Frog of Thunder as seen only in Thor #366

3. Hercules, with Golden Mace

4. The Black Knight, with Ebony Sword

 

The general argument for magical weapons is that new Hyperion will not ignore them. That's good. This team must draw fire.

 

The arguments for the Frog of Thunder is that this Thor was only ever written by Walter Simonson, and is thus a solid good guy, plus, odd-looking or not, this is Thor at full power, with his chariot and belt of strength as well as Mjolnir of course.

 

The Ebony Sword of the Black Knight is a booby trap, to take advantage of Hyperion's likely reaction to having been killed by a magic sword before. If grasped by the unworthy Hyperion, it will do Incredible magical damage continuously until it is dropped, and it also allows reflection of ranged attacks - including non-magical energy attacks (as a power stunt, which will not be a problem with Captain America inspiring the team) - at the original power rank. Either way, Hyperion takes lots of damage and hands over the initiative.

 

If still up, Hyperion might at least be discouraged from trying to strip Captain America, the Frog of Thunder, Beta Ray Bill and Hercules of their special items, which would be a good thing.

 

There is a possibility Hyperion may hang onto the sword a little while, wear the Incredible damage, and get his own back by chopping a couple of people in half with the magical blade. To improve the trap, Doctor Strange could cast a spell (in advance) on the Ebony Sword like the one on the instant karma dagger that the wizard Ham gave the Badger fight the Hodag with. (The damage you do when you stab someone with a magical weapon like this is instead applied to yourself. The armoured hide of the Hodag provided no protection against this magical damage.)

[freakboy6117]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

i just thought of some one no-ones suggested i wonder if the amalgam universe is allowed because then you could have

 

Dr Strangefate all the magical might of doctor strange the hemet of nabu and proffessor Xs telepathic powers to boot.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

oh' date=' the other reason why no ultimate nullifier--the challenge specifies nothing overly gimmicky, like "Steve has the Infinity Gauntlet", or "Aunt May has three cosmic cubes" kinda stuff.[/quote']

 

Well, does anyone know where the Destroyer armor is right now?

 

This also sounds like a good occasion for the Unipower to manifest a new Captain Universe.

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

megaplayboy: "oh, the other reason why no ultimate nullifier--the challenge specifies nothing overly gimmicky, like "Steve has the Infinity Gauntlet", or "Aunt May has three cosmic cubes" kinda stuff."

 

Fox1: "But a Reed Richards super device counts?"

 

Waiting for a call, megaplayboy.

 

Felix the Cat

The wonderful, wonderful cat.

Whenever he gets in a fix he reaches

into his bag of tricks

 

Felix the Cat

The wonderful, wonderful cat.

You laugh so much your sides will

ache, your heart will go pitter-pat.

Watching Felix, the wonderful cat.

 

For purposes of this challenge, Does Mister Fantastic get to reach into his bag of tricks if Hyperion gets the heroes in a fix?

[David Blue]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

i just thought of some one no-ones suggested i wonder if the amalgam universe is allowed because then you could have

 

Dr Strangefate all the magical might of doctor strange the hemet of nabu and proffessor Xs telepathic powers to boot.

That sounds like a smart and reasonable selection.

 

It's also one of the most interesting ideas anyone has had.

 

Logically, I can see Doctor Strangefate getting involved. Doctor Strangefate's a Sorcerer Supreme. Hyperion has wiped out realities. It's reasonable that at least one Sorcerer Supreme should be on his trail, either for revenge or as a precaution. And Doctor Strangefate is a Lord of Order (I presume). Hyperion looks like bloody Chaos on the wing.

 

freakboy6117, you called attention to Doctor Strangefate's powers. They are a formidable array. Did you give any thought to other considerations - his standing as a hero, his motivations or further ambitions, how he would be likely to get along with other characters you would want to pick and so on?

[assault]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

For purposes of this challenge' date=' Does Mister Fantastic get to reach into his bag of tricks if Hyperion gets the heroes in a fix?[/quote']

 

Well, presumably he should be able to do what he normally does, otherwise we would be saying: "Mister Fantastic is not available".

 

Which would pointlessly modify the exercise.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

How strangefate would play with others is an interesting question he seems to have many of the worst characteristics of all three of his main universe donors in other words he’s an arrogant jerk.

I think he would assume he should be the leader of the group, which may affect the cohesion of the team if they are just newly assembled and even more toxic if he’s the new arrival to a team like the exiles.

 

Of course the old mind whammy and people skills of professor X may solve this.

 

The biggest problem is no one will have heard of him so unlike other heroes who are at least versions of universe 616 characters he is an unknown quantity.

 

As for who should be on the team with him just picking these assistants from the amalgam universe would be a serious threat to Hyperion.

 

Skulk combination of Solomon Grundy and hulk ultimate rage powered brick

 

Jade Nova combination of combination of Nova (Frankie Raye) of the Marvel Universe and the Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) --with a pinch of Jade (Jennie-Lynn Hayden) so think a combination of green lantern powers and the power cosmic (eeek)

 

The White Witch ho combines Zatanna and The Scarlet witch into one, chaos magic and backwards talking scariness

 

 

And finally the good doctors servant MYX a combination of Wong and Mr. Mxyzptlk. He retains some of Mxyzptlk’s unimaginable imp powers.

 

Basically you’re looking at a rather scary team Especially to some one vulnerable to magic.

 

 

The main problem I see is that his ultimate goal is to save or recreate the amalgam universe. If he insisted on this course of action he could become a bigger threat than Hyperion.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

 

oh as for MR fantastic he should be allowed because his plot device power requires both equipment and time. meanint that hyperion has an easy out unlike the gauntlet or cosmic cubes where you can just jump out an smash him. he can quite easily smoosh mr fantastic or his laboratory if he defeats the heroes chosen to keep him occupied while Reed does his thing.