How would you "Gath" Earth?

[Hermit]

For those wondering at the title, in the Marvel Universe comic books, one bad guy by name of Kulan Gath has made more than one appearance where he attempted to alter the modern world into the sorcerous conan like times he knew so well...with himself as ruler, natch.

 

I don't plan on ripping off things THAT Directly, but it occured to me that if I had modern Earth abruptly altered into a fantasy setting for a new campaign, it might save me some effort, and be fun to tinker with to boot. Skyscrapers might turn into towers, Assault Riffles might become swords, and people wouldn't even remember how it once was. I could go several ways as I see it.

 

I could have history stay much the same, but altered to replace magic with Tech. George Washington would still have been the founder of the 'republic' that in our world would be the United States, etc.

 

I could decide to have history alter a great deal retroactively because things would be factored in that weren't before. For example, instead of a superpower republic with a Romanesque senate, the US might now instead be conquered by the Iraquios Confederation who used powerful shamanic magics to drive invaders across the sea away. Or perhaps a magocracy of sorts has formed where the Freemasons really DID have mystic power. Maybe the land is broken up into a hundred kingdoms.

 

Alas, my record in getting my gaming group into Fantasy Hero is a flop, so I fear it may end up being D&D 3 (Please, don't shoot) so it does look like I'll end up setting things in terms of Classes ("here is where barbarians might come from" "Here is where wizards dwell..." etc).

 

That's not even counting the headaches that might arise from religion. I am probably going to have the cause of the 'transformation' of the world being deities from other planes expanding... so fictional gods are likely how I'm going to go.

 

Pardon the rambling, but I know folks here are a source of great ideas, and so was curious on how you all would do it? Any suggestions are welcome, and I find even if I don't go with them, they help me sort things out... so thanks are given before hand.

 

Thanks.

[Savinien]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Somebody posted a fuedalistic map of the US and the URL it came from in the Fantasy Hero thread, I think.

 

I'm not much help otherwise. Sorry.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30103

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

What sort of help are you looking for, Herm? Do you want details as to how the world is likely to have changed? Society, technology, history?

 

Or do you want an "enabling device" to bring this about? If that's the case, if you were using any variation on the default Champions Universe, this sounds like a grand spell for Takofanes to use - return the world to the Turakian Age. It could also explain why he's been appearing so intemittently and randomly, rather than taking more direct world-conquering action; he's been setting up the conditions for this spell.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

its closer to SF I guess, but has anybody done anything with the Ring of Fire universe?

 

this being the alt history series starting with 1632, where a huge cosmic accident has dropped a 2001 era west virginia coal mining town into the teutenborger wald at the height of hte 30 years war..

[RDU Neil]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Go ask Trebuchet and... eh... Monitor I think. They game together and were recently talking about a very "Gath" like supers game they ran. I'm sure they'd give you plenty of information.

[keithcurtis]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Not a total non-sequitur. ERB had a character in one of his Barsoom novels named "Kulan Tith" I wondered if his name inspired the Marvel villain. (I'm assuming Kulan Gath is not a Howard character?)

 

As for on-Topic, I like LL's suggestions.

 

Keith "Sorry for the tempo de-rail" Curtis

[Hermit]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

What sort of help are you looking for, Herm? Do you want details as to how the world is likely to have changed? Society, technology, history?

All of the above

 

Seriously, the idea is in its most basic stages, so I'm open to anything. I guess I'm most looking for ideas on which parts of earth would translate to what fantasy cultures.

 

Or do you want an "enabling device" to bring this about? If that's the case, if you were using any variation on the default Champions Universe, this sounds like a grand spell for Takofanes to use - return the world to the Turakian Age. It could also explain why he's been appearing so intemittently and randomly, rather than taking more direct world-conquering action; he's been setting up the conditions for this spell.

 

Not as worried about the enabling device, though, as usual, your idea is a good one.

 

Actually, one D&D Campaign I am running right now is inspired by the Guardians of the Flame series, where I had my players make two characters... the college students and the characters they play. They are now in a fantasy world, but unbenowst to them, there is a chance that if they return to 'their world' they are going to bring the Fantasy reality with them like opening up the flood gates. Some of the deities of that world are looking to 'expand', but it may not work out as those gods wish.

[gewing]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

For those wondering at the title, in the Marvel Universe comic books, one bad guy by name of Kulan Gath has made more than one appearance where he attempted to alter the modern world into the sorcerous conan like times he knew so well...with himself as ruler, natch.

 

I don't plan on ripping off things THAT Directly, but it occured to me that if I had modern Earth abruptly altered into a fantasy setting for a new campaign, it might save me some effort, and be fun to tinker with to boot. Skyscrapers might turn into towers, Assault Riffles might become swords, and people wouldn't even remember how it once was. I could go several ways as I see it.

 

I could have history stay much the same, but altered to replace magic with Tech. George Washington would still have been the founder of the 'republic' that in our world would be the United States, etc.

 

I could decide to have history alter a great deal retroactively because things would be factored in that weren't before. For example, instead of a superpower republic with a Romanesque senate, the US might now instead be conquered by the Iraquios Confederation who used powerful shamanic magics to drive invaders across the sea away. Or perhaps a magocracy of sorts has formed where the Freemasons really DID have mystic power. Maybe the land is broken up into a hundred kingdoms.

 

Alas, my record in getting my gaming group into Fantasy Hero is a flop, so I fear it may end up being D&D 3 (Please, don't shoot) so it does look like I'll end up setting things in terms of Classes ("here is where barbarians might come from" "Here is where wizards dwell..." etc).

 

That's not even counting the headaches that might arise from religion. I am probably going to have the cause of the 'transformation' of the world being deities from other planes expanding... so fictional gods are likely how I'm going to go.

 

Pardon the rambling, but I know folks here are a source of great ideas, and so was curious on how you all would do it? Any suggestions are welcome, and I find even if I don't go with them, they help me sort things out... so thanks are given before hand.

 

Thanks.

 

There was a book called "Ariel" that didn't go that far, but it was a world in the aftermath of an unexplained event that caused electricity, internal combustion engines, and Gunpowder to cease working.

 

Magic started again, and magical beasts re-appeared.

 

Most of the population died of one cause or another.

[lemming]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

I ran a fantasy world that took place in a modified US. It didn't go far, but the players did like New Orc.

[sinanju]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Ariel: The Book of the Change by Stephen Boyett. It's long out of print, I suspect, but if you can find a copy, read it. It's set in a world where science stopped working and magic came into the world...for no reason anyone in the book knows about. Our hero is traveling with a unicorn (yes, he's a virgin) at the beginning of the novel. Swordfights, monsters, evil sorcerors, armies fighting with swords and spears and shields in the streets of NYC amongst the stalled cars. It's fun.

 

Dies the Fire by S. M. Stirling. Released last year in hardback, should be out in softcover shortly. This is kinda-sorta sequel to Island in the Sea of Time (where the Island of Nantucket and its residents are hurled back in time to the bronze age. This book shows you what happened to the REST of that world--and maybe the folks in Nantucket didn't get such a bad deal after all...

 

Like Ariel, this book is about the sudden and inexplicable failure of technology (no electricity, explosives won't explode, hell, even steam engines won't generate enough pressure to work!). But it is a more realistic look at the consequences. Not surprisingly, mass starvation is unavoidable. The main characters live in the Willamette Valley (Oregon) and spend a lot of time a) figuring out how to plant, raise and harvest food crops, and fighting to keep what they've got from other groups. What happens to 99% of humanity, especially those in NYC, Chicago, is left to the reader's imagination....

 

Both books would be full of things you could, uh, borrow.

[gewing]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Ariel: The Book of the Change by Stephen Boyett. It's long out of print, I suspect, but if you can find a copy, read it. It's set in a world where science stopped working and magic came into the world...for no reason anyone in the book knows about. Our hero is traveling with a unicorn (yes, he's a virgin) at the beginning of the novel. Swordfights, monsters, evil sorcerors, armies fighting with swords and spears and shields in the streets of NYC amongst the stalled cars. It's fun.

 

Dies the Fire by S. M. Stirling. Released last year in hardback, should be out in softcover shortly. This is kinda-sorta sequel to Island in the Sea of Time (where the Island of Nantucket and its residents are hurled back in time to the bronze age. This book shows you what happened to the REST of that world--and maybe the folks in Nantucket didn't get such a bad deal after all...

 

Like Ariel, this book is about the sudden and inexplicable failure of technology (no electricity, explosives won't explode, hell, even steam engines won't generate enough pressure to work!). But it is a more realistic look at the consequences. Not surprisingly, mass starvation is unavoidable. The main characters live in the Willamette Valley (Oregon) and spend a lot of time a) figuring out how to plant, raise and harvest food crops, and fighting to keep what they've got from other groups. What happens to 99% of humanity, especially those in NYC, Chicago, is left to the reader's imagination....

 

Both books would be full of things you could, uh, borrow.

 

 

we seem to have found some of the same books.

 

have you read "the architect of sleep" by Boyett

 

or "Threshold"

and "Emergence"

 

by... damn, I forgot.

[sinanju]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

we seem to have found some of the same books.

 

have you read "the architect of sleep" by Boyett

 

or "Threshold"

and "Emergence"

 

by... damn, I forgot.

 

I read "Architect of Sleep" but didn't like it nearly as much as Ariel. Alas, Boyett doesn't seem to have written anything else.

 

Haven't read the other two.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Well, I suppose I'd start by patterning the various regions as much as possible on their dominant, best-remembered pre-Industrial cultures. In many cases these would be fairly obvious: classical Greece, imperial China, Pharaonic Egypt, Aztec Mexico, Viking Scandinavia, Norman/Arthurian England, Gupta India, Carolingian France, etc.

 

I'm not quite sure how to deal with regions without major urban civilizations that experienced massive foreign immigration during the colonial period, particularly North America north of the Meso-American cultural region. Mind you, there were some pretty sophisticated groups there with fairly sizeable settlements, such as the Pueblo cliff-dwellers of the southwest or the Mississipian mound-builders, who could be extrapolated. A city made up primarily of Iroquoian longhouses might be neat, too.

 

I'll have to give that some more thought and get back to you.

[Theron]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

I did a one-shot like that years ago, where the PCs got transformed into fantasy versions of themselves, along with the rest of the world. For "geography" and "politics", I used the SCA as my model, since they've blithely divided the world into "kingdoms" and "principalities", along with re-naming everything that has a local group. So (to use my region as a model), All of Oklahoma and most of Texas (all but the extreme western part of the state) are the Kingdom of Ansteorra. Houston became the Barony of Stargate, San Antonio, the Barony of Bjornsborg, etc. I don't think it would work for a long term campaign right out of the box, but it could give you a starting point (as well as lots of heraldry, both good and bad).

[Supreme]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

I think I'd keep all the governments in place, but re-dressed as Fantasy-type governments. The US is a democratic monarchy (which it nearly was), like Denmark once was (I've heard). You may also want to think about fantasy equivalents for other modern things: the Apollo Program, nuclear weaponry, the internet, etc.

[gewing]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

I read "Architect of Sleep" but didn't like it nearly as much as Ariel. Alas, Boyett doesn't seem to have written anything else.

 

Haven't read the other two.

 

 

I agree. It felt like it needed another 2-3 books at least. weaker in general though.

[sinanju]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

I agree. It felt like it needed another 2-3 books at least. weaker in general though.

 

It wasn't that, really. I wanted more books about the world of Ariel. I just couldn't really bring myself to care about the second book.

[Hermit]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

Well, I suppose I'd start by patterning the various regions as much as possible on their dominant, best-remembered pre-Industrial cultures. In many cases these would be fairly obvious: classical Greece, imperial China, Pharaonic Egypt, Aztec Mexico, Viking Scandinavia, Norman/Arthurian England, Gupta India, Carolingian France, etc.

 

That’s what I was thinking about as well, though as you point out, North America could be a pain. I may translate (as Supreme suggests) more the current situation to the closest fantasy approximation rather than going to the roots. Still, one can’t place everyone so I’m sure others would disagree with how I did so.

 

I also find myself looking to Shadowrun and wondering how vast swathes of reality turned into “Elf Land†etc might work out.

 

 

I did a one-shot like that years ago' date=' where the PCs got transformed into fantasy versions of themselves, along with the rest of the world. For "geography" and "politics", I used the SCA as my model, since they've blithely divided the world into "kingdoms" and "principalities", along with re-naming everything that has a local group. So (to use my region as a model), All of Oklahoma and most of Texas (all but the extreme western part of the state) are the Kingdom of Ansteorra. Houston became the Barony of Stargate, San Antonio, the Barony of Bjornsborg, etc. I don't think it would work for a long term campaign right out of the box, but it could give you a starting point (as well as lots of heraldry, both good and bad).[/quote']

Excellent suggestion for a model, thank you. I’ll check out their website.

 

 

I think I'd keep all the governments in place' date=' but re-dressed as Fantasy-type governments. The US is a democratic monarchy (which it nearly was), like Denmark once was (I've heard). You may also want to think about fantasy equivalents for other modern things: the Apollo Program, nuclear weaponry, the internet, etc.[/quote']

 

I was thinking of a Roman like Senate situation for the United States myself, but as I was ignorant of Denmark’s system before this, clearly research into other alternatives is in order. Thanks.

 

My other thought was just turning every few groups of states into a Kingdom/Country of its own. After all, if modern technology is shifted to more medieval levels, keeping the lines of communication open would be difficult. Of course, magic might take its place, but that’s pretty prevalent magic. Instead I could try to match regions of the former US to the zeitgeist and preconception of those regions.

 

I could make much of the Southern United States (aka “the Bible Beltâ€) a true theocracy with pockets of other races in the hills etc. I could transform New England into a now decaying merchant run domain still known for its proud academies (wizards schools etc?). Southern California might become the wealthiest land of the lot, but renowned for its ‘decadence’ by envious neighbors in other regions. None of these portrayals would be particularly fair or flattering, but again, perception might define the new reality.

 

It’s just a thought.

[Grizzly]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

we seem to have found some of the same books.

 

have you read "the architect of sleep" by Boyett

 

or "Threshold"

and "Emergence"

 

by... damn, I forgot.

 

David R. Palmer.

 

Emergence, originally published as a short story, was amazing. The novel was still good, but perhaps a little padded...it didn't have the impact the shorter form had, IMHO. But still good and apropos to the topic at hand, if you can find a copy.

 

Threshold--was completely different. I didn't like it as much, and I suspect most people didn't either. The author subsequently disappeared off the face of the earth as far as I can tell. Wish I knew whether he ran out of stories, was disappointed, couldn't land another contract due to market conditions, or what, because Emergence was extraordinarly tasty, and I'd like to read more from the mind that came up with it.

[Big Willy]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

How the Gathed America turns out depends on your enabling device - if you're using some sort of counterhistorical explanation, just run with whatever that suggests.

 

In cases like this, though, it's legitimate to reason backwards from effects. Do you want fantasy equivalents of nuclear power, television, mobile telephony etc.? You can have them, but such a world will mainly be interesting in descriptive terms - like the Flintstones' Bedrock, it's our world with a genre makeover.

 

For a longer term game, I'd be more inclined to restrict the tech/magical level somehow: say the enlightenment and the industrial revolution never happened, and you're stuck with a view of the world that's just developed differently since the 15th or 16th Century - so the United States (or an analogue thereof) could still exist, but miracles and witchcraft are real, populations (and tall buildings!) are much smaller, it takes months to cross the Atlantic depending on the wind, and so on. The West could still be Wild - lacking mass production and firearms, the white man's magic is less overpowered compared to the Injuns' spirit powers, and buffalo (many of them settlers transformed by the Ghost Dance) still roam the plains. New York would still be the merchant metropolis by which other cities are judged, Boston the premier seat of arcane learning, and Washington/Columbia the capital city of a continental empire still somewhat resented in the former French and Spanish colonies it has long since absorbed. The actual political complexion of this empire (neo-Caligulan excess? patrician federalism? despotic military state?) could be anything you like, depending on the needs of the campaign.

[SKJAM!]

Re: How would you "Gath" Earth?

 

. Instead I could try to match regions of the former US to the zeitgeist and preconception of those regions.

 

I could make much of the Southern United States (aka “the Bible Beltâ€) a true theocracy with pockets of other races in the hills etc. I could transform New England into a now decaying merchant run domain still known for its proud academies (wizards schools etc?). Southern California might become the wealthiest land of the lot, but renowned for its ‘decadence’ by envious neighbors in other regions. None of these portrayals would be particularly fair or flattering, but again, perception might define the new reality.

 

It’s just a thought.

 

The Upper Midwest then becomes the Cold Lands full of Scandanavian/Germanic/Saxon types (ala the Heortlings of Glorantha) who live in a tenuous peace/raiding relationship with the nomadic horse peoples of the Plains. Not so much Vikings though, except on the Great Lakes.