Don't be a hater!

[MitchellS]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

So Darren is Senator Palpatine?

 

Does that make Steve Long Darth Vader?

They're probably somewhere between that and Boss Hogg and Sheriff Coltrane.

[Susano]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

They're probably somewhere between that and Boss Hogg and Sheriff Coltrane.

 

Hmm.... General Lee -- Death Star, Death Star -- General Lee.

 

Decisions, decisions.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Agent X

"Personally, it looks to me like you're trying to collect ammunition to fire at me or an excuse to ban me."

 

That is certainly what it look like to me, too.

 

Here's a news flash re: the pagarism issue. If you love your ideas so much, why are you posting them on a public board?

 

Unless something is lifted directly, HOW in hell can you even tell that something is 'plagarized,' esp in context of a particular game system? What, you though the idea of a chart describing characteristic ranges was something no one could ever have done, or hadnt done before you?

 

Finally, you know, it is entirely possible to read alot of board posts, and then, a year later, come up with a plot seed that is remarkably similar to something someone else wrote. It doesnt mean anything sinister. Its just the way the mind works.

You didn't say anything that I have indicated any disagreement with. I, personally, haven't posted anything that I'm too worried about "borrowing". When I asked Champsguy about this a couple of years ago, he didn't claim anything sinister was done. He complained that his idea was used and he wasn't thanked. Now, it could be a total coincidence. The thing is Champsguy and certain members of DOJ have a better idea of how they interacted years ago than you or I do.

 

Here's the rub. You guys don't know Champsguy IRL. He comes off as an irreverent quipster on these boards but, IRL, he is a responsible man with a great deal of education who lived through some lean times to get that education. He's great with children (I'm sure he wants everyone to know this) and a very fine person to know although he has a bit of a lead foot. And he's a very rational person. Call it an appeal to authority all you want. When someone I know of who has such a solid background thinks he's been snubbed, and that's really what it boils down to, I'm going to respect his perception even while I acknowledge it could be a coincidence. If his plot seed and their plot seed had been more generic, it would be easier to dismiss. However, the specific plot twist and the specific character are the same and that specific plot twist isn't one that just screams out to be a motif for that character. It could be subconscious borrowing, a coincidence, or even something more "sinister". FWIW, I don't think it's anything "sinister".

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

No. I brought it up because it was crap. If you think you can understand my subconscious better than me over the internet' date=' I think you are wrong.[/quote']Let me teach you something about psychology, Agent X. Have you ever heard someone say, "You need to step back for a moment and look at things from a distance." This expression sums up the ability to understand one's subconcious. Note that it is the root "sub" meaning below or beneath. It doesn't matter how well you know yourself. A person will always be the most biased of their own self. The closer one is to a person, the harder it is to understand how they are operating. Once an emotional investment is established, it becomes harder to analyze the psyche. It creates blind spots from those emotional investments.

 

It is also why Psychologists are unable to provide therapy for friends and family. I was asked for advice from a friend (who incidently is a poster on this board so I will provide no details here) regarding a particular psychological problem they were having. I upfront told him that he needed to find a therapist and that while I would hear his problem and do what I could, it would not provide him with that which he fully needed.

 

Everyone I mentioned was a moderator not a poster.

I was expanding the base line to encompass all posters, not just moderators. I consider you intelligent enough to distinguish the difference between Worldmaker and Thrakazog (to pick two at random), not just moderators. But this is an equivocation here, nothing more.

 

You are just not in a good position to do the latter regardless of how many psychology courses you've taken.

Interesting message that you have posted here. As the wording of this is vague to your intent, I will not state any opinion to what it was intended to mean. But your choice of refuring to my number of psychology classes taken I find particularly interested. But based on my message that you quoted when this was posted, I have some pretty good ideas what you meant here.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

It didn't look that way at all to me. It looked more like Darren was questioning the integrity of someone who possibly knew Champsguy was breaking the rules.

He sure was. He jumped to a conclusion that set up a False Dilemma that would make me damned if I did and damned if I didn't. It was pretty tacky, mainly because he broadcast his suspicions to everyone on the board.

 

No one at Hero Games needs an excuse to ban anyone. We frequent these boards at their convenience.

You are pointing out the obvious.

 

They can choose whom they want to be here and whom they don't.

You are pointing out the obvious.

 

No one needs to post here if they don't like that idea. These message boards aren't a democracy.

You are pointing out the obvious.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Let me teach you something about psychology' date=' Agent X. [/quote'] What does this have to do with anything?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

What does this have to do with anything?

[Mentor]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Give it a rest, Agent X.

 

Continuing to pick a fight with the moderators over banning an already banned (for cause) poster is going to have a predetermined result, Doug. I encourage you to rethink this tactic. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the decision, demanding that the moderators knuckle under has a zero chance of success.

 

Don't dare them to ban you unless you want to be banned. What purpose does that serve? There is no convincing proof of their wrongdoing.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Let me teach you something about psychology' date=' Agent X. Have you ever heard someone say, "You need to step back for a moment and look at things from a distance." This expression sums up the ability to understand one's subconcious. Note that it is the root "sub" meaning below or beneath. It doesn't matter how well you know yourself. A person will always be the most biased of their own self. The closer one is to a person, the harder it is to understand how they are operating. Once an emotional investment is established, it becomes harder to analyze the psyche. It creates blind spots from those emotional investments.[/quote']

As someone who is just stepping into the conversation of this thread (and fully admits to having read almost none of it), I have to say it appears the two of your are having a bit of a heated argument. Don't you thus have some emotional investment in proving the other fellow wrong? Maybe you should both back off.

[CSgeekHero]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

As to the continuing part of the debate concerning why different versions are preferred, it certainly shows the passion each member has for a particular version. That's pretty cool.

 

As to the C-- debate, Agent X needs a reality check. C-- may be your friend, but I was in this thread that night and read his first accusitory post. As I read it, my thoughts were: "No way. He just didn't go there!" The context of what he said was accusing DOJ of plagiarism. Darren called him on it and said the following:

I'm happy to give you the time you need to come up with actual documentation of plagiarism.

C-- escalated everything after that point by continung with his aggressive stance on the situation.

 

That's all I have to say on the C-- debate.

[CSgeekHero]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

So Darren is Senator Palpatine?

 

Does that make Steve Long Darth Vader?

 

Then, my journey towards the darkside...is complete.

 

Imperial March begins to play in the background

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

As someone who is just stepping into the conversation of this thread (and fully admits to having read almost none of it)' date=' I have to say it appears the two of your are having a bit of a heated argument. Don't you thus have some emotional investment in proving the other fellow wrong? Maybe you should [i']both[/i] back off.

Very true. But I thought of the notion long before I had made a very post on this thread. And really, all I did was form a suspicion.

[Nadrakas]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Ok...just read this whole durned thing.

 

Three things:

 

1) Why did ChampsGuy get banned in the first place? (Link...description...etc...)

 

2) On C-- ...If he is ChampsGuy (and apparently he is) and if he is a lawyer....well he should know that you have to bring Evidence to back up your Accusation. What he sent to Darren was...weak.

 

3) With all due respect to C-- (more than he gave the Hero Staff)...good bye...good riddance...

 

 

Nadrakas...

[rayoman]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

3) With all due respect to C-- (more than he gave the Hero Staff)...good bye...good riddance...

 

 

Nadrakas...

 

 

Agreed. Now there are a few more that need to be banned.

 

Give me the power to ban. I won't abuse it and when the crisis is over I will give up my power.

[JmOz]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Ok...just read this whole durned thing.

 

Three things:

 

1) Why did ChampsGuy get banned in the first place? (Link...description...etc...)

 

2) On C-- ...If he is ChampsGuy (and apparently he is) and if he is a lawyer....well he should know that you have to bring Evidence to back up your Accusation. What he sent to Darren was...weak.

 

3) With all due respect to C-- (more than he gave the Hero Staff)...good bye...good riddance...

 

 

Nadrakas...

 

He got in a pissing contest with Dan Simon, Champsguy got kind of abusive, Dan banned him. I thought it was a raw deal at the time, still do actualy, but his reaction to it is far from ideal.

[yamamura]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

That's a good theory and probably true for many people.

 

Personally, I started w/ 4e 15 years ago, and I had a lot of fun with it. I loved the slim and trim HERO System Rulebook (#500), and ran games in as many different genres as I could manage with it.

 

However, as much fun as I had with it, and as much as I loved that dogeared blue book, 5th Edition is just an outright superior game system, in my opinion. And the supplements are leaps and bounds beyond the old-school supplements, also in my opinion. So for me, its an uncontested lock for 5e.

 

Are there things I dont like in it? Are there things I do differently? Yes, of course. That's what House Rules are for.

 

I avoid that problem by playing GURPS after 2nd edtion until 4th came out. Played 4th for about a year and went back to GURPS, then White Wolf and then to BESM. Now I play 5th and love it:)

 

G

[lemming]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

You guys just simply won't accept the idea that there is reason for Champsguy to even consider that his ideas had some sort of influence on DOJ's work on 5th Edition and I think that's a bit much. He was one of the most prolific posters on these older boards. He was the most prolific poster on the last Hero board. It may simply be coincidence but I'm not going to simply dismiss his conclusion because an old board is gone knowing how active he was and how intelligent he is.

Champsguy certainly had some good input, but the three examples he decided on were weak at best. I've seen those charts made up by other people. I got one in a 3rd edition Fantasy Hero that was penciled in.

Wonder if the old champs-l archive has any talk of classifications. Personally I liked Mitchell's MSH reference.

[Chromatic]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

I think what's missing is "fun." Too many rules, too many subsections, too much "small print."

 

SNIP

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

Well said.

 

To keep this from being a "me too":

 

things that used to be "fun", that no longer are in the 5th edition system:

 

-- players like rolling dice. Mega-skills have a place, but allow for more hand waving. Let them roll dice, just don't tell them what its for.

 

-- players don't like being the supporting cast. The change to high damage, low defense for shorted combat leads to players watching from the sidelines. Typically a PC lasts about 2 successful hits it seems under 5th.

 

-- (most) players don't like having to do math on the spot (not me). By having differnt Meta-rules for various constructions, the rules become less intuitive

 

-- It's my game, it's my "interpretation of the" rules. Steve Long has been dragged far to deeply into making myriad rulings, and then much effort is spent enforcing those rulings on this forum. Step back a level, make a Meta-rule that is appropriate to a multitude of situations and let the GM's interpret.

 

 

I have more, but I'm done for now.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lamrok again.

[Mightybec]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

This thread has been quite entertaining.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Give it a rest, Agent X.

 

Continuing to pick a fight with the moderators over banning an already banned (for cause) poster is going to have a predetermined result, Doug. I encourage you to rethink this tactic. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the decision, demanding that the moderators knuckle under has a zero chance of success.

 

Don't dare them to ban you unless you want to be banned. What purpose does that serve? There is no convincing proof of their wrongdoing.

Do you guys really read my posts? There is more than two positions to take on issues. I haven't demanded the moderators knuckle under to anything. I haven't dared them to ban me. I haven't argued that there is convincing proof of their wrongdoing. I have argued that Champsguy's perception is far more reasonable than quite a few posters have made it out to be and that his 'evidence' indicates he is being truthful, to me, about the stuff he posted in the past. Does that mean he came to the right conclusion? No. But it does mean he came to a possible conclusion.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

He got in a pissing contest with Dan Simon' date=' Champsguy got kind of abusive, Dan banned him. I thought it was a raw deal at the time, still do actualy, but his reaction to it is far from ideal.[/quote'] That's how I see it, including the part of his reaction being far from ideal.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Champsguy certainly had some good input, but the three examples he decided on were weak at best. I've seen those charts made up by other people. I got one in a 3rd edition Fantasy Hero that was penciled in.

Wonder if the old champs-l archive has any talk of classifications. Personally I liked Mitchell's MSH reference.

I think the thing that he was working off of was the use of the "legendary" descriptor. I can't read his mind or anything but I doubt it would have been mentioned in isolation. My bet is his 'radar' became more sensitive after reading the Mentalla plot seed.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Well said.

 

To keep this from being a "me too":

 

things that used to be "fun", that no longer are in the 5th edition system:

 

-- players like rolling dice. Mega-skills have a place, but allow for more hand waving. Let them roll dice, just don't tell them what its for.

 

-- players don't like being the supporting cast. The change to high damage, low defense for shorted combat leads to players watching from the sidelines. Typically a PC lasts about 2 successful hits it seems under 5th.

 

-- (most) players don't like having to do math on the spot (not me). By having differnt Meta-rules for various constructions, the rules become less intuitive

 

-- It's my game, it's my "interpretation of the" rules. Steve Long has been dragged far to deeply into making myriad rulings, and then much effort is spent enforcing those rulings on this forum. Step back a level, make a Meta-rule that is appropriate to a multitude of situations and let the GM's interpret.

 

 

I have more, but I'm done for now.

Well said.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

This thread has been quite entertaining.

And some say you're sick for your commentary about sheep...

[Mightybec]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

If humans ate thier imperfect young like cats do, there'd be alot less trouble in this world.