Don't be a hater!

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Agent X,

 

Come on. You are much smarter than that and I give you credit for knowing and understanding the Marion Zimmerman Bradley case that involved exactly the same types of issues (being sued for plagiarism by a fan who used your IP). I assume of all people teachers understand plagiarism allegations. This can't be that difficult for you to understand.

 

BTW it does have some weight - a public recantation of the allegations (because they were allegations in the legal form of the word) is a wonderful thing and if that is impossible, then a solid ability to deny further/future claims is a pretty decent defense.

And to add on, they have nothing to gain from banning either due to martyrdom.

[Susano]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Heh. 1982. I won't mention the player that wrote up SWORD, the character. All powers as OAF...

 

It was actually kind of funny how often at Cons, I'd run across the same ideas from different sources.

 

The one around here was a gun, with everything else bought as OAF -- guy holding it.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

If this:

 

 

 

is what he was talking about stealing his chart "word for word" then he really has a distorted memory.

Now, THIS is a flat out distortion. Why did you neglect to quote THIS part of his post?: "On what is "Superhuman":

A few years ago, on the Webrpg board, a few of us worked out a stat-chart. It went pretty much like the fantasy hero one did, but with these additions."

 

In other words, the chart he is talking about was on the Webrpg board and he is referencing it here.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Agent X,

 

Come on. You are much smarter than that...

You lost me with that.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

And to add on' date=' they have nothing to gain from banning either due to martyrdom.[/quote'] Are you saying that nobody at DOJ would ban somebody simply out of an emotional reaction?

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

I've responded to quite a few posts here and I'm going to say this once and move on with my life.

 

It's one thing to disagree with C-- about the likelihood of Mentalla's pregnancy and the amnesia angle AND the characteristics chart.

 

It is another to do what several posters have done here which is to distort what he said either through editing or misunderstanding or just plain old putting words in his mouth and then, of course, there are the grade school antics of simply belittling him. You guys should be just as ashamed as you think C-- should be. You've gone so far now that the fact that he didn't say something 'before the clock ran out' somehow proves your point.

 

You guys think C-- is unfairly accusing DOJ of using his idea he posted on a board that members of DOJ were active on without giving him any thanks and that's okay, that's your right. I think you've been extremely unfair in your treatment of what C-- actually said and I've lost quite a bit of respect for those who engaged in the piling on of distortion and misattribution.

 

You know, some of you guys may have been there on WEBrpg but I bet a bunch of you weren't and I doubt you would have paid as much attention to what C-- posted as he did. He was an extremely active poster and he did interact with Steve Long, at the very least, quite a bit. It may be hard for some of you to appreciate how different those times were concerning the "talk" about a possible 5th edition and the like.

 

Should C-- not have come to the conclusion he made and actually brought up when ASKED? It's difficult for me to say because I didn't get to read those posts. Apparently, none of you did or none of you remember them. I'd prefer to chalk this up to personal differences because it cannot be resolved because the "evidence" is gone to prove one way or the other. Darren Watts preferred to ban somebody. And you guys prefer to ridicule a person who was very involved in a community of Hero gamers that Steve Long did pose questions to and listen to their answers when he was considering what 5th Edition would look like. But hey, that's okay. We'll just ignore C--'s long history of contributions to the Hero Internet Community and pass him off as a goofball.

[Ben Seeman]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Are you saying that nobody at DOJ would ban somebody simply out of an emotional reaction?

No one has ever been banned based off of emotional reaction.

[JmOz]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Agent X,

 

I would never say that, however most of the DOJ crew are of cooler heads, including DW.

 

I DO FEEL that this is a matter of two people who refused to back down from there postions. I do not feel c-- had anything to appoligise for (Except for maybe a sorry that I presented myself this way). However he should have been willing to say "I did not say you were plagerising, but I understand why you think I did, lets just drop this"

 

DW was in a bad postion as he had to stand up, or look like he was agreeing with the guy.

[Blue]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

I haven't read the whole thread, just some of the parts about accusations of plagarism. I'd like to say a few things on the subject.

 

• In 1998 I came up with an idea for a game where the characters were really in the internet and that their bodies in real life were being held captive elsewhere. This is well before THE MATRIX came out. As I didn't share the idea with many people (I wasn't gaming much at the time), I know there's no way that the Waichowski brothers ripped me off. It's coincidence.
  
• I've never bought or read the original Dark Champions. Before the new version of DC came out, I came up with powers for my characters for regular champions characters. Some of them are earily similar to powers that came up in 5e Dark Champions. Now there's no way Steve ever saw them and if they came from the earlier edition, there's no way I ever saw them. So again, coincidence. These things happen.

I've written scenarios that wound up having incredible parallels to the campaign I'm currently playing in. Yet, there's no way the GM would know what I had planned. It's a matter of "great minds thinking alike", probably based in the fact that we have similar tastes and similar backgrounds, hence we game together.

 

I think that similarities happen. It bugs me briefly because I wanted to be FIRST to point out something cool I did, but that's just ego.

[MitchellS]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Now' date=' THIS is a flat out distortion. Why did you neglect to quote THIS part of his post?: [b']"On what is "Superhuman":

A few years ago, on the Webrpg board, a few of us worked out a stat-chart. It went pretty much like the fantasy hero one did, but with these additions."[/b]

 

In other words, the chart he is talking about was on the Webrpg board and he is referencing it here.

There's no distortion. I quoted the only parts of the chart that were in that post. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not going to waste my time analyzing a 3+ year old post based on the fact that it might be based on something else posted to another forum even more years earlier.

[MitchellS]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

It's one thing to disagree with C-- about the likelihood of Mentalla's pregnancy and the amnesia angle AND the characteristics chart.

No, not even close. Champsguy had 3 examples: Mechanon's robot base on the moon, Mentalla getting pregnant from a PC in a time travel plot seed, and the characteristic chart.

 

There has never been any Mechanon plot seed as he described.

 

The only Mentalla plot seed has her getting pregnant from a PC. It has nothing to do with time travel.

 

The characteristic chart he is discussing doesn't have the same breakpoints or numeric values.

 

On top of all that he doesn't even bother to attempt to prove anything, only saying that he doesn't need to. Well guess what? I designed the all 3 of those things above. I don't need to prove it either. Too bad for DOJ if they don't like it. Get the idea? We don't know if Champsguy is lying. He can't prove any of it.Maybe he just has a big ego and likes to feel important who knows. You can't say someone used your idea and then not back it up with some proof; which is what Darren asked for.

[Gary Ciaramella]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

The one around here was a gun' date=' with everything else bought as OAF -- guy holding it.[/quote']

 

Ours was Phaser, the character with a vulcan follower that carried the character around.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

No, not even close. Champsguy had 3 examples: Mechanon's robot base on the moon, Mentalla getting pregnant from a PC in a time travel plot seed, and the characteristic chart.

 

There has never been any Mechanon plot seed as he described.

 

The only Mentalla plot seed has her getting pregnant from a PC. It has nothing to do with time travel.

 

The characteristic chart he is discussing doesn't have the same breakpoints or numeric values.

 

On top of all that he doesn't even bother to attempt to prove anything, only saying that he doesn't need to. Well guess what? I designed the all 3 of those things above. I don't need to prove it either. Too bad for DOJ if they don't like it. Get the idea? We don't know if Champsguy is lying. He can't prove any of it.Maybe he just has a big ego and likes to feel important who knows. You can't say someone used your idea and then not back it up with some proof; which is what Darren asked for.

Keep on misrepresenting his claims and his posts. I'm sure it will have the intended effect.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

I'm curious, Agent X. Are you confirming that C-- is in fact Champsguy and not a new poster (who amazingly racked up several hundred posts in the four weeks he's been a member?) Because, you know, that would also be a pretty severe violation of board policies, returning as a new user under a different name and IP address after being banned. And if so, and you knew about it, why didn't you let us know? Is that really the guy you want to make a stand defending? dw

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

I'm curious' date=' Agent X. Are you confirming that C-- is in fact Champsguy and not a new poster (who amazingly racked up several hundred posts in the four weeks he's been a member?) Because, you know, that would also be a pretty severe violation of board policies, returning as a new user under a different name and IP address after being banned. And if so, and you knew about it, why didn't you let us know? Is that really the guy you want to make a stand defending? dw[/quote'] You didn't know it was Champsguy? I assumed Ben and Dan did. It wouldn't be the first time they've had posters adopt new identities with the full knowledge of a moderator.

[schir1964]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

...I DO FEEL that this is a matter of two people who refused to back down from there postions. I do not feel c-- had anything to appoligise for (Except for maybe a sorry that I presented myself this way). However he should have been willing to say "I did not say you were plagerising, but I understand why you think I did, lets just drop this"

 

DW was in a bad postion as he had to stand up, or look like he was agreeing with the guy.

Absolutely.

 

I already tried to explain this point to Agent X, but he seemed unwilling to agree or disagree with it. Not sure why.

 

I also asked Agent X several specific questions to try to get more information about his specific viewpoints. He only answered one of them, and didn't even acknowledge the others. Again, not sure why.

 

For me, it was like watching a train wreck about to happen. I could've tried to stop it, but I knew any attempt by me to get C-- to clarify his position in a less accusatory tone would only make him worse. Again, I can only go off of the interactions I had with him before. Unfortunately, since he initiated the claims, the burden of proof was on him to back them up. And without such proof, he should have backed off or clarified explicitly that he was not accusing DOJ of plagarism (and I'm not saying he did or didn't, since I don't know what he was thinking or even thinks now).

 

I also was also posting on the webrpg site during the Cybergames times, but so many posters have come and gone over the years, it's hard to remember who came over from the webrpg boards.

 

I do remember posting the infamous question about the possible effects of Area Effect Telekinesis and got quite a stir from the community.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Ben Seeman]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

You didn't know it was Champsguy? I assumed Ben and Dan did. It wouldn't be the first time they've had posters adopt new identities with the full knowledge of a moderator.

No, we did not know, since he's usin an AOL proxy IP address. His IP address shows up the same as Steve Long and a dozen more board members. We had a pretty good hint, but we don't go around making accusations we can't back up.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Absolutely.

 

I already tried to explain this point to Agent X, but he seemed unwilling to agree or disagree with it. Not sure why.

 

I also asked Agent X several specific questions to try to get more information about his specific viewpoints. He only answered one of them, and didn't even acknowledge the others. Again, not sure why.

 

For me, it was like watching a train wreck about to happen. I could've tried to stop it, but I knew any attempt by me to get C-- to clarify his position in a less accusatory tone would only make him worse. Again, I can only go off of the interactions I had with him before. Unfortunately, since he initiated the claims, the burden of proof was on him to back them up. And without such proof, he should have backed off or clarified explicitly that he was not accusing DOJ of plagarism (and I'm not saying he did or didn't, since I don't know what he was thinking or even thinks now).

 

I also was also posting on the webrpg site during the Cybergames times, but so many posters have come and gone over the years, it's hard to remember who came over from the webrpg boards.

 

I do remember posting the infamous question about the possible effects of Area Effect Telekinesis and got quite a stir from the community.

 

- Christopher Mullins

It's a little hard for him to respond to accusations of accusations of plagiarism now isn't it?

 

Come on. People read posts all the time and post responses to what they have an immediate reaction to or they ignore tangents and stick to what they were talking about before, such as the similarities of his old posted ideas and some ideas in Hero products. So, we'll never know. He was shut down very, very quickly.

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

No' date=' we did not know, since he's usin an AOL proxy IP address. His IP address shows up the same as Steve Long and a dozen more board members. We had a pretty good hint, but we don't go around making accusations we can't back up.[/quote'] Well, I didn't think he would do that without someone's knowledge. I wouldn't try to do an end-run around a ban.

[Ben Seeman]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Well' date=' I didn't think he would do that without someone's knowledge. I wouldn't try to do an end-run around a ban.[/quote']

None of us here at DoJ knew. If we knew he would have been banned immediately. Please see Rule #3 of the RoC for why.

 

So basically, regardless of the reasons for Darren wanting him banned, I'm keeping him banned for breaking rule #3.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

You didn't know it was Champsguy? I assumed Ben and Dan did. It wouldn't be the first time they've had posters adopt new identities with the full knowledge of a moderator.

 

Nope. Did C-- tell you he had permission to create a new identity? If so, he's been lying to you too. If not, then you have to know he's been lying to us, and that doesn't seem to have bothered you any.

 

I'm already convinced the Hero community has no place for him. Now, I'd like to know where you stand. dw

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Nope. Did C-- tell you he had permission to create a new identity? If so' date=' he's been lying to you too.[/quote'] No. I figured out who he was and PM'd him to see if I was right. He stated that he wanted to see how long it would take for folks to figure out who he was. I assumed he meant posters not moderators. I didn't ask if he had permission. It never occurred to me that he would "sneak" on to the boards.

 

If not' date=' then you have to know he's been lying to us, and that doesn't seem to have bothered you any. [/quote'] This is presuming too much. I didn't know he was lying to you about who he was. I knew he had assumed a new identity on the boards and I didn't know how that was accomplished.

 

I'm already convinced the Hero community has no place for him. Now' date=' I'd like to know where you stand. dw [/quote'] I think the Hero community has a place for him. I don't think he's followed the rules of this board and should be banned for as long as you guys feel like banning him - for the false identity, not for accusations that he didn't make. Of course, what he was originally banned for was something that could have been avoided had the rules been explicitly enforced as they now are.

 

I'm curious as to why I have to take a stand though.

[schir1964]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

It's a little hard for him to respond to accusations of accusations of plagiarism now isn't it?

 

Come on. People read posts all the time and post responses to what they have an immediate reaction to or they ignore tangents and stick to what they were talking about before, such as the similarities of his old posted ideas and some ideas in Hero products. So, we'll never know. He was shut down very, very quickly.

Sorry Agent X, but you already agreed earlier that C-- didn't focus on the plagarism inferences people were making about him and didn't correct them on thier incorrect inference before he was banned.

 

I never made the claim that C-- was accusing DOJ of plagarism in any of my posts.

 

So please acknowledge that I'm not doing that.

 

See, this post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I'm correcting a possible incorrect inference.

 

I care about such things, obviously C-- didn't care about such things as much as I do. Such is life.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Agent X]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

Sorry Agent X, but you already agreed earlier that C-- didn't focus on the plagarism inferences people were making about him and didn't correct them on thier incorrect inference before he was banned.

 

I never made the claim that C-- was accusing DOJ of plagarism in any of my posts.

 

So please acknowledge that I'm not doing that.

 

See, this post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I'm correcting a possible incorrect inference.

 

I care about such things, obviously C-- didn't care about such things as much as I do. Such is life.

 

- Christopher Mullins

He was a little busy discussing the whole Mentalla thing. I don't think you're being reasonable about that. When folks are on the hot seat, they roll with it and deal with what they can as they can. He hadn't addressed that issue yet. It didn't mean he wasn't going to, that is, until he was banned.

[schir1964]

Re: Don't be a hater!

 

He was a little busy discussing the whole Mentalla thing. I don't think you're being reasonable about that. When folks are on the hot seat' date=' they roll with it and deal with what they can as they can. He hadn't addressed that issue yet. It didn't mean he wasn't going to, that is, until he was banned.[/quote']

Again, please acknowledge that I did not claim that "C-- accused DOJ of plagarism."

 

C-- missed his opportunity to correct an incorrect inference, such is life.

 

- Christopher Mullins