A more feminine martial art

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Another weapon to consider for females are the Wind and Fire Wheels. (Note: better-looking models do exist).

[Guyon]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

you could always tell the Tae Kwan Do techniqes because they all envolved either gouging out eyes or clawing at the groin. QUOTE]

 

I think you have Tae Kwan Do mixed up with female selfdefence. Tae Kwan Do is know for it's vast kicking technique and dramatic Aeriel attacks. Many of which are for show, but it is 100% solid MA fighting. Tae Kwan Do is up there with the best of them, and one of the only MA in the Olympics.

I consistanly get points for kicking to the head duing sparing. This MA is much tougher than simply trying to claw at eyes. :-)

[Guyon]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Nice weapon Black Lotus, can you use these?

I am trained in 4 MA weapons. My personal favorite the least flashy of them all, the staff. I thought this was a nothing weapon before training. Now it is my weapon of choice for power, damage, and speed of attack.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

I think you have Tae Kwan Do mixed up with female selfdefence.

[/Quote]

No, I don't think I do.

 

I was exagerating slightly for comic effect, but not much. While TKD does of course contain a good asortment of strikes and kicks, (the more useful of which are very similar to the core set of karate strikes and kicks) most of the techniques were quite brutal, and most DID involve an eye gouge or a groin rip somewhere or other.

[Guyon]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

RE:most of the techniques were quite brutal, and most DID involve an eye gouge or a groin rip somewhere or other.

 

@Ura-Maru

Well I am working on my 3d degree in Tae Kwan Do, with Black Belts in two other MA. As well as 4 years of training in 4 MA weapons and some classes in medieval sword.

 

 

BTW: In not one single class in Tae Kwan Do have I been instructed in an eye gouge or a groin rip. I am not sure where your expert opinion is coming from, but if you know better, then my hat is off to you.

[Enforcer84]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

“And what is this ‘feminine protection’ anyways? A chanteuse flamethrower?†–Bloom County

 

[Ura-Maru]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

-shrug- No need to get snarky. I didn’t say you couldn’t tell the difference between a traditional martial art and a self defense course, did I?

 

I studied, off and on, for eight or nine years, quite a while ago. At a karate school that mixed in bits and pieces from Shotokan, TKD, and a few scraps of a Chinese style who’s name I can never remember. And a lot of sparring.

 

My instructors told me, repeatedly, that most of the more vicious techniques were from TKD. It’s possible they were incorrect. It’s possible that what they thought was TKD was not, in fact, a traditional part of it. If I remember correctly, about a decade and a half ago several large Korean TKD schools were complaining that it wasn’t taught properly in Europe and elsewhere, so that may explain it. (The head instructor was from South Africa)

 

It’s even possible that I’m misremembering. I don’t think I am, but it’s happened once before.

 

In either case, it’s impolite to wave your belt around in mixed company.

 

---

Just for that, I’m not selling you my copy of 4e Ninja Hero. (Not that I’d sell it to anyone . . .)

[kuoshu]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

If there were bits and peices from three arts, and one of those was a Chinese martial art, that likely is where it came from. I've studied three forms of TKD, one a very "traditional" stylem, and they were all pretty straight forward. Never had the groin grab taught to me as a traditional move.

 

I remember at one school, the older students (by this I mean adults, at the time I was only 15 or so) talking about the crazy and viscious attack that the Hung Ga (southern tiger and crane) guys did at an exhibition they went to. It was a punch, elbow strike to the face, follow through then reverse the hand up and over to grab the groin with a tiger claw attack, then squeeze, pull and punch the guy again with his own bits and pieces in your fist.

 

Now, 18 years and various styles later I know the truth (I teach Bei Shao Lin Kung Fu Kuoshu these years). That attack has many variants, but I thought you might like the name. It's called "Monkey Steals the Peaches"...

 

Oh, while I am replying. Tai Chi and Tai Chi Chuan are exactly the same thing. Chuan is chinese for technique, sometimes also fist. The tai chi you see people practicing for exercise is exactly the same as the tai chi that is used in combat. The difference is a big box vs little box thing which I will not get into, needless to say it is whether and how you progress your training past the fitness aspect.

 

So from my stand point and to the point of the question asked in this thread (having practied Yang Tai Chi, Wu Tai Chi, Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, TKD, Kali, Kendo, and Jujitsu) ANY style can be good for women. It's all in how the person interperets and applies the art as far as how it looks, yin or yang. Though I admit, some styles bring more yang to mind: Southern Shaolin, TKD, Karate, Judo and some seem more yin: Tai Chi, Mulan Chuan, Akido. But I've seen very feminine representations of all of the above, and very masculine representations of the same.

 

Sorry there are no easy answers to this question.

 

Kuoshu

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

In either case' date=' it’s impolite to wave your belt around in mixed company. [/quote']

 

I've studied Jeet Kune Do for sixteen years now, and I've never had a belt. The true worth of a martial artist cannot be measured with colored cloth.

 

I often see people say things like: "Not to be arrogant, but I have a third-degree black belt in Karate, and I could have kicked his butt, no sweat." That is definitely the wrong attitude to have, in my opinion.

[Kyle A.]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

I've studied Jeet Kune Do for sixteen years now, and I've never had a belt. The true worth of a martial artist cannot be measured with colored cloth.

 

I often see people say things like: "Not to be arrogant, but I have a third-degree black belt in Karate, and I could have kicked his butt, no sweat." That is definitely the wrong attitude to have, in my opinion.

 

Reminds me of a friend of mine. He said something like that and the guy he said it about heard him. It started the fight that had just been avoided. My friend got his ass handed to him. He hasn't said anything like that since.

[Guyon]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

While I TOTALLY agree that Belt color has nothing to do with your actual skill, neither does years of study.

 

I think many have misunderstood the reason I even mentioned belt color in Tae Kwan Do. It was to show that I knew something about that particular MA. I am sorry if it offended anyone.

 

Ura-Maru kept pushing misinformation about a MA that was so off base that it was the only thought I had, to keep others from being so badly misinformed and tarnishing that art. What you should think about Tae Kwan Do is it's exceptional kicking and jumping techniques.

 

Since then, I have gone to two libraries (my kids are in a summer reading program) and look at over a dozen books on Tae Kwan Do. As well as skimming though 2 years Tae Kwan Do magazines. I had found not one single instance of gouging out eyes or clawing at the groin for that particular MA.

 

Coincidently I did find a tape made by MPI video 1998 "The Woman's How to of Self Defense" that does have many of those moves.

 

I apologize that I got off topic and will keep further remarks to the Thread header.

[Short Shot]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Nitpick: Tai Chi is next to useless in a fight. Tai Chi Chuan is a full fledged martial art from which Tai Chi was developed as a fad exercise/meditation.

 

Initially I was going to have a bone to pick with you rather than just a nit, but then I reread what you had written. From what I've read and seen (currently taking Tai Chi Chuan and White Crane Kung Fu, have taken karate and aikido in the past) Tai Chi Chuan is one of the dirtiest infighting schools there is when you actually get the martial applications involved. The places that just teach the form always irritate me because awareness of the matial application changes how you move in the form. I had done the form for 6 months at the YMCA before going to another place, and only there did I learn that join locks, elbow strikes, hip throws were in there to play around with. Repulse the Monkey just doesn't make any sense at all without the martial application to guild the movements.

[kuoshu]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

"I had found not one single instance of gouging out eyes or clawing at the groin for that particular MA.

 

Coincidently I did find a tape made by MPI video 1998 "The Woman's How to of Self Defense" that does have many of those moves." - Guyon

 

Fight smart I always say, a twist to the groin is worth two fists to the jaw any day.

 

"I often see people say things like: "Not to be arrogant, but I have a third-degree black belt in Karate, and I could have kicked his butt, no sweat." That is definitely the wrong attitude to have, in my opinion." - Black Lotus

 

Never met anyone who I either knew or later found out was that good that ever made that statement. But I understand Guyon's reasoning. It's hard to make an authoritative statement on something if you don't know much about it, one indicator that you do know something about it is (espeically with Karate, Judo, or TKD) is to state your belt color. Saddly those of us traditional Kung Fuey types don't get belts like that. One sash (black) which only says we are a student, and an underbelt (pick your color) to indicate advanced student status, because advanced students need abdominal support to prevent hernias I guess.

 

Kyle A. - that is so Karmic I can't say anything else.

 

 

Back to original question/answer:

Thought about it more, easy answer for simplicity sake. All of the following are very flowing and circular.

Mulan Chuan

Fanzi Chuan

Cha Chuan

Aikido

Tai Chi

Shaolin Chuan (northern)

Capoeira

Kali - stick fighting from philippines.

 

K

[Guyon]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Rats back to the library.

I didn't know there was a difference between Tai Chi and Tai Chi Chuan. I know Tai Chi was a softer style used as meditation and exercise which is why I recommended it good for the feminine MA

 

Learn something new everyday.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

While I TOTALLY agree that Belt color has nothing to do with your actual skill' date=' neither does years of study.[/quote']

 

You're right; the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. However, I believe time spent training is a more accurate indication of skill than belt color, because I've known black belts of varying degrees who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag (and some, on the other hand, who could easily defeat me in a sparring match). Of course, it also depends on how hard and how often you trained during those years, how skilled and effective your instructor was/ is, and your state of mind.

 

{As a side note, I believe actual fighting experience over which you have no control -- street fights, school fights, barroom fights, bouncing, boxing, wrestling, etcetera -- are EXTREMELY important to a fighting martial artist. I got a lot of experience in this in military school, and it helped me a lot.}

 

I think many have misunderstood the reason I even mentioned belt color in Tae Kwan Do. It was to show that I knew something about that particular MA. I am sorry if it offended anyone.

 

Not at all offended! Feel free to let your rank be known.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Penjat Silat - a great style for small fighters.

 

Tai Chi Chuan - definitely the most lethal for small fighters

 

To be perfectly blunt. You need to know how to take a fall (Jujitsu), take an attack (Boxing/Muay Thai), Joint Locks/Breaks, and training until it becomes instinctive.

 

As for a Feminine Martial Art - What every you do disuade anyone from taking Wen Li Do (the so called Women Self Defense). I could RANT for hours on how stupid these classes were taught. I lost my temper and had the Instructor come at me. When I was done she was totally helpless and I needed only one arm and leg to immobilize her and was still free to do as I wished. If you know a woman who has taken this [censor][censor][censor][censor][censor] so called [censor][censor][censor][censor] class. Please make sure they have at least taken one contact Kick Boxing Class. The'll have learned more.

 

End Rant

 

QM

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

To be perfectly blunt. You need to know how to take a fall (Jujitsu)' date=' take an attack (Boxing/Muay Thai), Joint Locks/Breaks, and training until it becomes instinctive.[/quote']

 

In ninjitsu, this process was known as "The Void," or "forgetting your training." Good call, I feel the same way. A lot of people have mastered forms -- kata -- but not the art of actually fighting. In my experience, when a fight starts, your adrenaline dumps into your system in a confusing fashion that you have to learn to deal with, and a guy rushes for you, swinging wildly... or sometimes aiming well-placed jabs. No matter what, everything happens quickly, and things go crazy. Experience with floor wrestling is often crucial to defusing the situation. Aerobatic martial arts are not always enough to defeat a muscular man unless you are very experienced -- almost all street fights end up on the floor/ ground. Usually, the winner of a UFC championship is a master floor wrestler/ pinner.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

So it appears I was mistaken.

 

Guyon: It was certainly not my intent to ‘tarnish’ anyone’s view on TKD. I was impressed with the efficiency of wherever art the attacks DID come from. And I can guarantee you if I ever DO need to use something in a real fight, that’s what’s being used, not the butterfly kick or the jump-spinning-axe kick.

 

The ‘women’s self defense’ remark irritated me, I’ll admit. There are many, many ‘real’ martial arts that DO include that type of technique. I probably did overreact, though. So, no hard feelings, on my side at least. Hope you didn’t waste too much time at the library.

 

But I’m still not selling you my copy of Ninja Hero, .

 

kuoshu: I’ve heard of that one, yes. The name at least, though without the amusing description. Many of the techniques I was referring to are . . . thematically similar. I’ll have to see if I can find out what the Chinese style was. It started with an S, I’m pretty sure . . .

 

---

The end result, I’m afraid, is I’m considerably less impressed with TKD than I was before . . . sigh. Nothing is ever as cool as you think it is . . .

[Guyon]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

WOW nice assortment of feminine martial art kuoshu. I totally for got about Stick fighting!

 

I wish I know more about Kung fu. But strangely the more I hear about it, the less I seem I know.

 

After doing some research it seem that Kung Fu is made up of hundreds of styles. Right? Belts or no belts I would some day like to learn that MA. How is class sparing?

[stan da ork]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Not trying to be an ass here, but all this talk of martial arts reminds me of something a hapkido instructor said the first day of class...

 

"Who wins the fight?"

 

After waiting for the obligitory round of shouting about martial artists, the teacher shook his head.

 

"The guy with the gun."

 

stan (who knows next to nothing about martial arts, but who sure as hell owns a gun and knows how to fire it)

[Kyle A.]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Not trying to be an ass here, but all this talk of martial arts reminds me of something a hapkido instructor said the first day of class...

 

"Who wins the fight?"

 

After waiting for the obligitory round of shouting about martial artists, the teacher shook his head.

 

"The guy with the gun."

 

stan (who knows next to nothing about martial arts, but who sure as hell owns a gun and knows how to fire it)

 

While that is true in real life, in Champions when an unarmed man or woman challenges a guy with a gun you can pretty much be assured that the gunman is going down...hard.

[Vondy]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Not trying to be an ass here, but all this talk of martial arts reminds me of something a hapkido instructor said the first day of class...

 

"Who wins the fight?"

 

After waiting for the obligitory round of shouting about martial artists, the teacher shook his head.

 

"The guy with the gun."

 

stan (who knows next to nothing about martial arts, but who sure as hell owns a gun and knows how to fire it)

 

Remember the Boxer Rebellion!

 

The Chinese Alamo.

 

Personally, I'm finding the "my belt is blacker than yours is dynamic" amusing as hell.

[megaplayboy]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

I strongly recommend Drunken Horny Babe style--it's irresistable.

 

The Withering Gossip, Catty and Sassy styles also have much to recommend them.

 

Seriously, though. I'd say Crane style, Mantis, Pa Kua, Taijiquan, Zen Archery and Capoeira can all be graceful styles if you want something with a "femme" aspect to it. Aikido would be good for a style that emphasizes evasion and reversal of leverage. Small circle jujitsu. Wing Chun for great short range infighting and a flowing attack.

Fencing can certainly have a stylish flair that could be considered feminine, and it's a style where strength isn't really as important.

[Short Shot]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

WOW nice assortment of feminine martial art kuoshu. I totally for got about Stick fighting!

 

I wish I know more about Kung fu. But strangely the more I hear about it, the less I seem I know.

 

After doing some research it seem that Kung Fu is made up of hundreds of styles. Right? Belts or no belts I would some day like to learn that MA. How is class sparing?

 

I'm hardly an expert here, either, but yes, there are hundreds of styles, and even styles within styles. For example, "Long Fist" is actually made up of five different styles. Speaking very generally, which means basically exceptions to every thing, Kung Fu is considered split as Northern styles and Southern styles. Northern stuff is lots of kicking and southern is hands. Something to do with mountain terrian vis flat lands changing the footing. You also have hard styles and soft styles.

 

Something else to consider: most martial arts overlap at some point. Judo starts training on body throws and eventually does joint locks/throws because they consider joint locks too dangerous for beginners. Aikido starts with the joints because they consider body throws too dangerous. Tae Kwon Do starts mainly with striking but eventually incorperates throws into the art. Aikido starts with throws but later incoperates strikes to brake the balance and make throws easier. Tai Chi starts training with the feet planted and works with turning the body evade with flowing hand movements to redirect energy while Aikido starts with moving the feet and a pretty ridged arms to redirect the body but both with swap over later on depending on the technique. (Can you tell I'm most familiar with aikido than the other stuff?)

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: A more feminine martial art

 

Not trying to be an ass here, but all this talk of martial arts reminds me of something a hapkido instructor said the first day of class...

 

"Who wins the fight?"

 

After waiting for the obligitory round of shouting about martial artists, the teacher shook his head.

 

"The guy with the gun."

 

stan (who knows next to nothing about martial arts, but who sure as hell owns a gun and knows how to fire it)

 

The teacher is a fool.

 

I'm not going to expound on how guns can be beaten. Sometimes it's not possible, and sometimes it is, depending on the situation and number of attackers, and other factors, and obviously a gun is a huge advntage; but unpredicatability and bad odds are universal in battles.