Silver Avenger Write-up?

[Speedball]

Hey all,

 

I'm curious about the PRIMUS Silver Avengers. Has anyone done a write-up for one? I've looked through my books and couldn't find one. If nobody has a write-up, I'd be happy with any info y'all can provide beyond the basic and/or obvious.

 

Thanks!

[Greywind]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Go to the source. Ask Shelly.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Millennium City has a writeup for a (presumably weaker) Silver Avenger.

 

Rob

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

The VIPER sourcebook has stats on a former Silver Avenger, Kevin "VIPER-X" Armstrong.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Viper - X is a pretty good version. Just comb through his write up and remove the parts that are obvious VIPER gadgets, and or Kevin Armstrong specific skills. I used him as a basis for the Crimson Avenger in the GGU, as long as you recognize that Silver Avengers are around 400-450 pt characters to built correctly you should have no problems.

 

Hawksmoor

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

My own attempt at using VIPER-X as a base ended up with a 600-point character(*)... but that was counting a basic equipment load, a fairly generous "PRIMUS Equipment" Gadget VPP, and a generous skill list.

 

 

 

 

(*) Silver Avenger Darin Falswell, NPC boss of Chicago's PRIMUS contingent for my on-indefinite-hiatus 'Aegis' campaign, and *not* a Genocide freak in this incarnation. He's still a jerk, though.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Well of course you can go *up*.

 

Baseline is the real trick. Which leads me to my common thought: Why then is 350 pts acceptable for player characters?

 

Hawksmoor

[MitchellS]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Everyone should keep in mind that in 5E not all Silver Avengers are the same. The differences between Mayte Sanchez [Millennium City] and Barton Stano [Vibora Bay] show that their characteristics do vary by some small degree, even if their equipment does not.

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Well of course you can go *up*.

 

Baseline is the real trick. Which leads me to my common thought: Why then is 350 pts acceptable for player characters?

 

I think it's because 350 pts are supposed to be starting superheroes. And Silver Avengers are supposed to be experienced, highly-trained, PRIMUS agents who were then given super-soldier serum and trained even more.

 

My own version of Falswell benches at 600 both because he's carrying a equipment load more appropriate to a VIPER Superhuman Combat Specialist, and because he's one of the most experienced SAs in my game world.(*)

 

 

 

 

(*) Then again, given that in my game world, a great deal of PRIMUS' best went up when Dr. Destroyer nuked Detroit in 1992, and the current 'game year' is 1994, that simply required living through it. In Falswell's case, he simply wasn't there... he'd taken wounds from a superfight earlier that month severe enough to hospitalize him.

 

IIRC, I killed off the entire Avenger corps there except for four -- DJ Johnson (was with the 'space team' during the Battle of Detroit as one of the pilots, was tapped to be the new Golden Avenger), Darin Falswell (was already in the hospital the day Detroit happened), Sam Waters (had *just* retired, and had to come back *out* of retirement immediately post-Detroit to help train the new ones), and a fourth one I didn't write down in case the game needed me to sub in another one of the 'Old Guard' SAs somewher, so I left the slot open for improvising. (All of these except DJ are either remakes or OCs, natch)

 

The current crop of SAs are all only about a year into their powers, as they were Cyberlined-up in late '92 and '93. A lot of them were drawn from outside PRIMUS, as they needed experienced Cyberline-compatible people *fast*, and were willing to go through the combined service records of all other Federal law enforcement agencies, plus the armed forces, to get it... and a goodly chunk of their best Assault Agents, as well as most of the Iron Guard, had gone up at Detroit as well.

 

But I digress.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

You could get the Primus PDF too.

[Vorsch]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

SAs should be low powered superheroes, with a generous skill set. Even at 600pts there attacks/CV should be lower than what heroes can get.

 

AS written they are simply to good. especially if you want to play bricks or MAs

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Sez you.

 

Seriously Silver Avengers are tough because they are exactly that hybrid characters. Demibrick Martial Artists with decent (60+ point) skill sets. Add in neato equipment and they push 500 points and go up from there. Using the GGU gimmicks I got Crimson Avenger down to 500 points but he got a nasty pulse pistol capable of unleashing 16d6 Energy Blasts or 13d6 autofire. So I disagree on the low CV/DC argument.

 

Silver Avengers are tough customers.

 

Hawksmoor

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Why have the Fifth Edition PRIMUS Silver Avengers not as physically powerful as their earlier incarnations?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

QM

 

P.S.: My amnesiac Silver Avenger/Ninja Superhero was called Rogue Trooper.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Anyway here is my version of a rogue SA, actually an exile from the CU.

 

THE CRIMSON AVENGER

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

40 STR 30 17- Lift 6400.0kg; 8d6; [4]

26 DEX 48 14- OCV 9 DCV 9

33 CON 46 16-

15 BODY 10 12-

18 INT 8 13- PER Roll 15-

14 EGO 8 12- ECV: 5

20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6

18 COM 4 13-

 

16/26 PD 8 Total: 16/26 PD (0/10 rPD)

16/26 ED 9 Total: 16/26 ED (0/10 rED)

6 SPD 24 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

15 REC 0

66 END 0

52 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 205

 

 

Movement: Running: 9" / 18"

Swimming: 4" / 8"

Leaping: 12" / 24"

 

Cost Powers END

Martial Arts:

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

4 1) Martial Block +2 +2 Block, Abort

4 2) Martial Dodge -- +5 Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

4 3) Martial Strike +0 +2 12d6 / 4d6 Strike

5 4) Offensive Strike -2 +1 14d6 / 6d6 Strike

Karate

8 5) +2 HTH Damage Class(es)

1 6) Weapon Element: Clubs

56 Pulse Pistol: Multipower, 75-point reserve, all slots 4 clips of 16 Boostable Charges (+1/2) (112 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1)

3u 1) Pulse Shot: EB 13d6 (65 Active Points); OAF (-1) 0

3u 2) Semi-Auto Shot: EB 11d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4) (69 Active Points); OAF (-1) 0

4u 3) Overload Shot: EB 15d6 (75 Active Points); OAF (-1) 0

 

20 Utility Belt: Multipower, 30-point reserve, (30 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2)

1u 1) Billy Club I: Hand-To-Hand Attack +2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) 0

1u 2) Billy Club II: Energy Blast 6d6 (30 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Range Based On STR (-1/4) [1 rc]

1u 3) Mini-Camera: Eidetic Memory (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Visual Images Only (-1/2)

1u 4) Mini-Recorder: Eidetic Memory (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Sound Only (-1/2)

1u 5) Smoke Pellets: Darkness to Sight Group 2" radius, 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn (removed by winds or rain) each (+0) (20 Active Points); OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), Limited Effect (Normal Sight Only) (-1/4) [8 cc]

1u 6) Flash Pellets: Sight Group Flash 6d6 (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Charges (-3/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) [6]

1u 7) Thermite Pellets: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Charges (-3/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) [6]

1u 8) Sleep Gas: Energy Blast 3d6, No Normal Defense (LS: Self-Contained Breathing; +1) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Charges (-3/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) [6]

1u 9) Throwing Blades: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1/2d6 (1d6+1 w/STR), Ranged (+1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Recoverable Charges (-1/4) [6 rc]

1u 10) Rebreather: Life Support (Expanded Breathing: Breath Underwater), 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (+0) (5 Active Points); OAF (-1) [1 cc]

1u 11) Monocular: +6 versus Range Modifier for Sight Group (6 Active Points); OAF (-1) 0

 

Crimson Armor, all slots OIF (-1/2)

17 1) Advanced Balistex Armor: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4) 0

3 2) Lenses: IR Perception (Sight Group) (5 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) 0

5 3) Built in transmitter: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); Sense Affected As More Than One Sense [very common Sense] (Hearing as well as radio ; -1/2), OIF (-1/2) 0

 

Supersoldier training and treatments

8 1) Iron WIll: Mental Defense (11 points total) 0

10 2) Augmented Physiology: Power Defense (10 points) 0

4 3) Strong Leaper: Leaping +4" (12" forward, 6" upward) 1

6 4) Powerful Legs: Running +3" (9" total) 1

2 5) Improved All Around Athlete: Swimming +2" (4" total) 1

6 6) Perceptive: +2 PER with all Sense Groups 0

10 7) Efficient Physiology: Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 40 Active Points of STR (10 Active Points) 0

 

 

Perks

 

 

 

Talents

18 Danger Sense (self only, out of combat, Function as a Sense, Intuitional) 14-

 

 

Skills

3 Acrobatics 14-

3 Breakfall 14-

3 Combat Piloting 14-

3 Fast Draw 14-

3 Interrogation 13-

3 AK: Earth 13-

3 KS: CHECKMATE 13-

3 KS: The Damocles Directive 13-

3 KS: The Superheroic World 13-

5 Rapid Attack (Ranged)

3 TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Combat Aircraft, Large Planes, Wheeled Military Vehicles

4 WF: Beam Weapons, Common Melee Weapons

 

Special Forces Training

8 1) +1 with All Combat

3 2) Climbing 14-

3 3) Demolitions 13-

2 4) KS: The Military/Mercenary/Terrorist World 11-

2 5) KS: The Agency Customs and History 11-

2 6) KS: (Avenger) Customs and History 11-

2 7) Navigation (Land) 13-

2 8) PS: Member of the Agency 11-

2 9) PS: Member of the Avengers 11-

3 10) Stealth 14-

8 11) Survival (Temperate/Subtropical, Tropical, Desert, Mountain) 13-

3 12) Tactics 13-

3 13) Tracking 13-

2 14) TF: Parachuting, Advanced, Parachuting, Basic

2 15) WF: Small Arms

-10 16) Social Limitation: Civilians Just Don't Get It

 

Former Law Enforcement Officer Package (Police)

1 1) Combat Driving 8-

2 2) CK: Washington DC 11-

3 3) Criminology 13-

2 4) KS: Criminal Law 11-

2 5) KS: The Law Enforcement World 11-

2 6) Paramedics 11-

2 7) PS: Special Agent 11-

2 8) Streetwise 11-

-15 9) Social Limitation: Once a Cop; Always a Cop

 

Karate Skills

3 1) KS: Karate 13-

10 2) +2 with HTH Combat

-7 3)

 

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 295

Total Cost: 500

 

350+ Disadvantages

15 Hunted: The Damocles Directive 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Watching)

10 Hunted: CHECKMATE 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Watching)

20 Hunted: TAROT 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)

15 Psychological Limitation: Always Goes Armed (Common, Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Feels Guilt Over His Association with the Directive (Common, Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Justice not Law (Common, Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Overly Protective of Friends and Associates (Common, Strong)

5 Social Limitation: Owes a Marker (for Freeing Diva and Hardcase) (Occasionally, Minor)

5 Social Limitation: Public Identity (Occasionally, Minor)

10 Social Limitation: Subject to Orders (Checkmate) (Occasionally, Major)

5 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect Poisons and Toxins (Uncommon)

20 Experience Points

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 500

 

Background/History: Dane Sullivan doesn’t talk about the past much anymore. After the stares wear off the inevitable questions start in. He just doesn’t want to deal with it anymore. No, he isn’t from ‘here’, he is from somewhere else. A place where he was a hero, one of the chosen few, he was a super soldier, an avenger, endowed with tremendous abilities through a series of genetic and chemical treatments. With his teammates and colleagues, he worked to promote the cause of justice and the ideals of the American constitution. Sure there were superheroes that did the same thing, roughly, some even operating under government sanction. What Dane and the other avengers did was more traditional law enforcement; they brought the villainous often outright terrorist organizations down through diligence, teamwork, and tight indictments.

day, though, it all changed. The malefactor de jour unleashed a potent weapon that, according to the brain trust back at HQ, could tear the fabric of space and time asunder. Dane and his squad stormed the hidden redoubt in Washington DC and fought their way through minions and henchmen until they at last confronted the madman. Howling he declared they were too late as he opened the window in creation. “Avengers do not quit!” Dane promised him as he powered on despite the rush of wind and the chaos of light sound and energy that flooded the laboratory.

thin filament ripped itself free of the portal on the edge of forever created that day; a ribbon of possibility and improbability. Seething with energy it rushed the room, consuming everything it touched. Special Agent Martins was a fresh graduate of the program; a tech boy brought out to the field for this most hazardous of missions. He was crouched low beside a bank of computers trying to override the lockout codes and close the window down. Martins did not see the approaching danger. Dane Sullivan did. Moving as quickly as his enhanced body could move him Dane thrust himself between the ribbon and the obvious tech, hurling the man to safety even as the primal forces ripped him apart.

knew pain, then silence and for a brief instant peace before he was thrust back into the chaos of the world. Cars whizzed by him as he stood in the street. “What?” he thought as he rapidly took in his new locale: Wisconsin Avenue on a street sign, trendy street corner café there. Dane calculated the new data. “Bethesda, Maryland.” He said out loud. The creep’s device had transported him across the district. He tapped his cochlear microphone and said “SA Sullivan. I’m ok got teleported to Maryland.”

didn’t get the response he expected as he picked his way down the street to where he knew was a Metro terminal. He repeated his call and there was still no response. “That light must have destroyed my communicator.” Dane decided. “Still, I’ve got to get back to Southeast DC, no telling what shape the team is in.” So Dane hurried. He was heading for the Metro because of the Agency’s hidden assets stored there: a hover car. That and the communications gear inside would put Dane Sullivan back in the game.

, when Dane got to the Metro station and swiped his agency pass in the reader nothing happened. He convinced the attendant to allow him to pass. The guy was obviously in awe of the reputation agents like Dane held, that and the armored costume, so he let him past the security gate. Dane ran to the location of the vault and threw open the outer door. Inside was just an electrical closet. Dane started opening doors franticly, his inner sense telling him something was very wrong. He was ripping stucco off the wall of an inner access shaft when Metro police shouted at him.

rushed past them, they obviously could not help him; every second he wasted his team, no the world was in jeopardy. “I must have the wrong station.” Dane decided as he ran out into the city. He commandeered a car, flashing his badge and leaving a card, he needed to get back.

he got to the southeast DC lair of the master villain he was surprised not to see the support team in place in cordon around the hidden facility. He also did not recognize the building. Things were really starting to prickle Dane’s senses. The situation was not right.

back to the agency headquarters didn’t help matters. The facility was simply not in its federal hill location. At a total loss Dane wandered, a hero in armored spandex, alone in a strange land. DC police found him sitting on the steps of the capitol trying to decide his next move. They took him to the station, he didn’t resist. An agency called Checkmate soon secured his release. At Checkmate his story was checked and rechecked. The answers that came back were worse than Dane could have guessed. Dane Sullivan, the agency he worked for, the people he knew, none of existed. Not on this world anyway. He was on a mirror Earth.

he thought about his options an offer came to him from a curious source. Another top secret US government agency was looking for a metahuman with a strong law enforcement background willing to go deep undercover on a long term assignment. Checkmate vouched for him, his psychiatric advisor endorsed the idea of ‘going and doing and not moping’. Dane Sullivan became the Crimson Avenger the watchdog of the Damocles Directive.

the Crimson Avenger, Dane traveled the world intervening in threatening situations, running herd on over a dozen of the world’s worst criminals. He lost himself in his work, finding solace by living on the edge. In time he came to bond with the members of his team, especially the last group in Phase Four.

the preparations began to deploy Phase Five Dane was uneasy. The compliance bracelets had been shown to be defective certainly, but the safety of incorporating alien technology with the human nervous system in the new DEDLOK technology was unproven. When the Liaison triggered the unit on Diva during one of his frequent vindictive periods, it became clear to Dane that the problems were more than suspected. The technicians tried to assure him of the freak nature of the injury.

wasn’t convinced. The Liaison hurt Astrid to prove a point he was certain. So Dane pulled strings, called in favors he wasn’t certain he held. The results were the first pardons granted in the history of the Damocles Directive: Diva and Hardcase were free. He could taste the bile in the Liaison’s mouth when the older man told him. Dane knew the man hated metahumans, especially criminal metahumans; to let two free galled him.

took his leave, the big man wanted to see if he could make America work for him. Diva, on the other hand, stayed close to Dane. She accompanied him as he took on assignments for Checkmate and the CIA. Ranging worldwide as a freelance agent, sure the work was very similar to what he did in the Damocles Directive, but he could do it with clear conscience: no one would die because of a choice he made.

 

Personality/Motivation: Dane still possesses the strong sense of right and wrong and belief in justice that made him a good candidate for the Agency’s supersoldier program. His sense of devotion to his friends and teammates is nearly unbreakable. Dane does not have family or friends in the standard sense. His neighbors barely recognize him; his fridge is empty and his furniture barely existent. Instead his bed is a hard bench on a C-17, his television the screen of a satellite phone. His friends are those that share his peculiar lifestyle: Dane Sullivan is a professional hero.

harbors deep distrust for the man he refers to as the old man, the Liaison of the Damocles Directive. Mostly for his own blindly following orders; certainly Dane never did anything totally wrong under the orders of the Directive but the situation did not sit well with him after a while.

 

Quote: Quote:

“There are two ways we can do this. Don’t make me pick.”

about him:

“He allowed himself to lose perspective. If you wish to employ him in your endeavors take that under advisement.” The Liaison

 

Powers/Tactics: On his Earth Dane Sullivan underwent a series of treatments that made him a minor metahuman: low level super-strength, durability, and speed. The abilities granted ebbed slightly after his exile to our Earth until the Damocles Directive developed a better gene therapy based on the works of Saul Neuman. As a result the Crimson Avenger can lift a van over his head, and run at speeds approaching 40 miles per hour. The Crimson Avenger is a skilled hand to hand combatant and possesses a broad knowledge base as a special government agent. Peculiarly, the Crimson Avenger has a strong, almost preternatural, danger sense. Dane dismisses it as gut feeling and enhanced senses but regardless his danger antenna has gotten him and his teams out of more scrapes than can be easily dismissed.

the Crimson Avenger Dane wears combat armor composed of hardened ceramic plates with plenty of web belts and storage pouches. He typically carries a high powered firearm of some sort or another procured from his contacts in the Defense and Justice departments.

 

Campaign Use: Name: The Crimson AvengerName: Dane Sullivan: American with no criminal record: Formerly with the Damocles Directive: 1.82 meters: 110 kgColor: BlueColor: Brown

 

Appearance: Dane Sullivan is a man in his mid thirties with the build of a person that engages in regular strenuous exercise. His brown hair is flecked with grey, and his eyes are getting little crow’s feet. He generally does not dress down for any length of time. If required he selects casual attire fitting with the local mores that are comfortable, easy to move in and can conceal a hidden weapon or two.

 

the Crimson Avenger, Dane wears a crimson costume made of ballistex with armored ceramic plates covering vital areas. His mask covers his whole face with is hair exposed. The suit has numerous pouches for ammo and equipment and holsters for his weapons.

__________________

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

SAs should be low powered superheroes, with a generous skill set. Even at 600pts there attacks/CV should be lower than what heroes can get.

 

AS written they are simply to good. especially if you want to play bricks or MAs

 

I disagree.

 

As I mentioned before, in my campaign, there is a 600-point Silver Avenger. One-on-one, he can take on virtually(1) any member of the team and thrash them handily. He's got higher CVs than anyone, and the DC of his primary attack is exceeded by only two people on the team, and then only with them using their highest-END attack option.

 

Furthermore, as the director of the local PRIMUS contingent, Silver Avenger Falswell can just wave his hand and call out an entire platoon of Assault Agents, his base's few Iron Guardsmen, as much of the Chicago PD as happens to be in the area (and that's /with/ the PCs having Local Enforcement Powers -- his badge is bigger than theirs) and if he's willing to make some phone calls, spend some time waiting, and be prepared to justify his actions afterwards, the National Guard.

 

An NPC tailor-made to overshadow the PCs, right?

 

You'd think so. Except that in every one of their encounters so far, they've been one-up on him.

 

Part of this is due to the actions of the DM, meaning me. I don't have him show up for the purpose of beating the villain they're supposed to be fighting.(2) With the size of the geographical area involved, and all of his responsibilities, I am amply supplied with reasonable excuses as to why he's over there instead of over here. The one time him and the PCs were ever at the same combat scene, *they* saved *his* butt. (Lodestone deliberately broke into a Federal post office to draw a PRIMUS response, and was waiting just inside the loading dock door with a fully-loaded semi, ready to magnetically toss it at the first PRIMUS agent -- which would have been Falswell, as he always takes point -- who came in through the door. Man would have had damn little chance of not getting clocked. Problem for Lodestone is, Aegis' point man came in through the skylight. *g*)

 

OTOH, they've had lots of *non*-combat interaction with him -- Falswell is a campaign foil, as his suspicious attitude and extreme dislike of "meddling amateurs" is always the first and largest obstacle between the team and cooperation at the Federal level. (As the team works for the city, the /local/ level is usually very nice to them.) The scene where him and Aegis *finally* worked out the respective jurisdictional boundaries on a tricky counter-espionage case (without anyone punching anyone) is one of my faves. Especially since they pulled it off partly by beating him, and his entire Intelligence division, to finding the bad guy.

 

I ramble. And part of the 'no overshadow' thing is the players own ability at playing the game -- they correctly recognize SA Falswell's role in their universe (unwilling ally/social antagonist), and respond accordingly. They trust me in that I'm not putting him there to make them look bad, I'm putting him there to make their characters' lives "interesting"... in the old Chinese sense of the world. He's bigger than any one of them precisely to make him interesting competition for the entire team -- and yet, when the [fertilizer] hits the fan, they're all supposed to be on the same side.

 

The argument as to whether or not there should be any non-supervillain NPCs anywhere in the world who are bigger than your PCs is an old and longstanding one on this board, so I won't try to rehash all of it. Short version is... if the DM and the players cooperate to make it work, you can indeed have an NPC much bigger than they are swimming in the same local waters that they are, and yet it won't suck.

 

 

 

 

(1) There's a couple who have the right powers to run away where he can't follow, but not to thrash him.

 

(2) The piece de resistance along this vein was when I was running a story arc based upon VIPER-X arriving impersonating a very well-known superhero, I couldn't afford to have Falswell in the city *at all* -- he'd have been almost certain to spot the imposture, as he's not only an experienced investigator, but he's actually worked /with/ Horus-Re (my campaign's version of Superman)(3)before. And what's worse, he'd also worked with VIPER-X before too, when they were both SAs together.

 

So, in order to keep him from exploding my plot, I picked that week for Falswell to be undergoing refresher training in advanced wilderness survival.

 

At Fort Wainwright, Alaska.

 

In-game explanation -- Armstrong deliberately waited until Falswell was out of town before making his play, as *he's* not stupid either... well, that plus the fact that one of the team is a known jokester, and SA Falswell considered it prudent to be as far out of town as he could arrange to be during the first week of April.

 

(3) If you're wondering HTF Viper-X can impersonate 'Superman', the answer is 'fully stealthed jetpack', 'holographic generator', and 'not actually fighting anything -- he showed up at their base for non-combat interaction'.

[Vorsch]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Any campaign which has these type of Sas running around better have powerful heroes, 350pts just dosent cut it.

 

What gets me is the fact its not like one or two there are lots of these guys, who cannot be outperformed by 350pt brick/ma types. They hit all the campaign limits in terms of damage cv spd , have high def and all defences.

 

Now if heroes did not have to pay for there eqipment it would be fairer.

 

I like the character but i feel that the SA negate the need for bricks and MAs, they are already way better than you, and they are just boosted agents.

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

They're not 'boosted agents', unless you consider Captain America just a 'boosted agent' as well. The entire point of the Avenger program is that in the CU, the Super-Soldier Serum *wasn't* lost... it just only works on a few percent of the population.

 

As for "lots of" -- I don't think the official # has ever been written down anywhere, but most PRIMUS writeups that I've seen have the # varying between 12 and 20. For the entire US. Each one costs more than an Abrams tank, after all (heck, the Golden Avenger costs more than a fighter plane) -- and while that's not much money to the DOD budget, Silver Avengers come out of the Department of *Justice's* budget, which is way way smaller.

 

And why would a campaign need 'powerful heroes' if these guys exist in it? The Teen Titans and Superman live on the same planet, and yet both of them can find enough action and adventure to sustain a comic book title. Just as heroes come in different sizes, so do villains.

 

There is no law saying that the PCs must be the most powerful heroes in the world. The mere existence, somewhere else, of an NPC with more combat power than they have shouldn't be a disqualifier.

[MitchellS]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

They're not 'boosted agents'' date=' unless you consider Captain America just a 'boosted agent' as well. The entire point of the Avenger program is that in the CU, the Super-Soldier Serum *wasn't* lost... it just only works on a few percent of the population.[/quote']

We should keep in mind that Cyberline is just one of many super-soldier programs in the CU>

 

As for "lots of" -- I don't think the official # has ever been written down anywhere, but most PRIMUS writeups that I've seen have the # varying between 12 and 20. For the entire US. Each one costs more than an Abrams tank, after all (heck, the Golden Avenger costs more than a fighter plane) -- and while that's not much money to the DOD budget, Silver Avengers come out of the Department of *Justice's* budget, which is way way smaller.

A lot of this information you are using comes from an outdated PRIMUS pdf. In the 5E CU we don't know how many Silver Avengers there are. We know that Atlanta has 3 by itself. There could be literally hundreds of them around the country.

 

I'd also point out that the only two published 5E examples we have put them in at under 400 points. That's a far-cry from what many people seem to be talking about as examples here.

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

... 3 in Atlanta alone? Great googly moogly.

 

I think I'd actually prefer to /stick/ with the 4e numbers. It sounds like in 5e, Silver Avengers are what we used to call 'high-end partial-Cyberline-program Assault Agents'. I mean, I used to explain Sanchez' stats in Millennium City to myself by thinking that she was just the runt of the litter. It sounds instead like she's supposed to be a front-runner.

 

Ah well, even if the #'s I'm using are totally unofficial, at least I'll keep 'em for my game.

[MitchellS]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

... 3 in Atlanta alone? Great googly moogly.

 

I think I'd actually prefer to /stick/ with the 4e numbers. It sounds like in 5e, Silver Avengers are what we used to call 'high-end partial-Cyberline-program Assault Agents'. I mean, I used to explain Sanchez' stats in Millennium City to myself by thinking that she was just the runt of the litter. It sounds instead like she's supposed to be a front-runner.

 

Ah well, even if the #'s I'm using are totally unofficial, at least I'll keep 'em for my game.

I would say Sanchez is typical for a Silver Avenger. Barton is weaker [strength-wise] than she is and Armstrong is stronger. My guess would be a typical cyberline injection grants: +20 strength, +10 dexterity, +10 constitution, +10 pd/ed, +1 speed.

 

I think they're still high-end; they're superhero size now in the same 350-400 point range of the starting characters.

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

If your evaluation is correct, then Armstrong must have been the best athlete PRIMUS had ever seen /before/ they gave him Cyberline.

[MitchellS]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

If your evaluation is correct' date=' then Armstrong must have been the best athlete PRIMUS had ever seen /before/ they gave him Cyberline.[/quote']

Remember with the finished version of Viper-X there are other things going on as well. He basically died and was saved by Nama. He also worked several years as a mercenary. That can account for the extra 5+ constitution and +1 speed. It's not out of the question to assume he was 18 str, 15 dex, 18 con, 3 speed prior to cyberline [which them boosts him to 38 str, 25, 28, and 5; and then travel and experience boost his dex, con and speed a little more].

[Vorsch]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Imagine what youd feel like as powerarour type when primus hands out Ironman level armour, and lots of free gadgets. Whats the point of superheroes?

 

Captain america is special one of a kind, not very powerful but has super level skill, he dosent have the highest spd damage def cv and ranged attacks of the campaign

 

And this is just the SA the golden avenger is better, as a example a player wanting to play a cap clone is going to be annoyed by the SAs full spectrum capability. there meant to be well trained boosted agents not a match/overmatch for superheroes built to the same concept.

 

Olso if goverment agencies were creating cadres of Psis or energy blaster to the SA level people would rightly complain about the weakness of standard heroes, you are playing a game where the players are meant to be powerful

[MitchellS]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

Imagine what youd feel like as powerarour type when primus hands out Ironman level armour, and lots of free gadgets. Whats the point of superheroes?

 

Captain america is special one of a kind, not very powerful but has super level skill, he dosent have the highest spd damage def cv and ranged attacks of the campaign

 

And this is just the SA the golden avenger is better, as a example a player wanting to play a cap clone is going to be annoyed by the SAs full spectrum capability. there meant to be well trained boosted agents not a match/overmatch for superheroes built to the same concept.

 

Olso if goverment agencies were creating cadres of Psis or energy blaster to the SA level people would rightly complain about the weakness of standard heroes, you are playing a game where the players are meant to be powerful

I think you're taking this a little too far. Silver Avengers don't have the highest damage/etc. in the game as well. Each game is based on the power level of the individual game. A 600 point Silver Avenger is not that tough in a 600 point game. Each GM is showing you examples based on their own campaign worlds.

 

The official examples have the characters built on less than 400 points. They are PC tough, but a lot of those points are on skills and equipment. There is no game being overshadowed; at least not in the CU.

[Chuckg]

Re: Silver Avenger Write-up?

 

> Imagine what youd feel like as powerarour type when primus hands out

> Ironman level armour, and lots of free gadgets.

 

The average Iron Guardsman is only slightly buffer than Turtle Armor... and that's 4e, as the Iron Guard isn't *IN* 5e that I know of.

 

> Whats the point of superheroes?

 

I don't entirely understand your argument, but you seem to be saying that no NPCs should ever be bigger than the PCs. In any category, whether it be brick, martial artist, power armor, or what have you.

 

I don't agree. Unless you're running a JLA or an Avengers campaign, /somebody/ out there has to be filling that time slot... and if it's not a JLA campaign, then it's not the players filling it. So who is?

 

The point of being a hero is to use your powers to do good. You can do that even if other people are also doing the same, somewhere else in the world. Even if they're bigger.