Sketchpad Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I've also gotta side with Mitch in this one. I love the Hero system and really think that, stat wise, Hero emulates the superhero genre better than 80% of the games I've used in the past. That being said, I really miss both 3rd and 4th edition covers. Not only did they emulate the genre well, but some of them were done by comic industry pros. Some may have a beef with the BBB, but it was an awesome cover by George Perez ... Heck, I even enjoyed the C:NM layout and art better than some of the current books. When looking at other superhero games, I think that M&M really looks great for a superhero game, as well as having a campaign world that feels really "comic booky" ... I'd love to see Champions in a similar boat (if not an even better one) that has some nice covers by comic book pros and some crisp interiors. Don't get me wrong, there are some really talented people that do work for Hero, heck I've even been granted the occasional chance to do some work for DigiHero, but, as Mitch said, there needs to be something that draws in the consumer. I know that times are rough for RPGs, but there's gotta be a way to have better covers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! If their research shows that this is the type of cover that sells, then I'm wrong. But to me the cover suggest more "toon" than "superhero." If they want this to bring to mind the Teen Titans TV show, that may be the idea. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Champions should be trying to take the best of the comics genre and build on it' date=' not emualting it so faithfully that it copies its flaws as well.[/quote'] "Me thinks she doth protest too much." -McBeth's wife, if I recall correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! "Me thinks she doth protest too much." -McBeth's wife, if I recall correctly Not correct. The actual quite is "the lady doth p[otest too miuch, methinks" and is from Queen gertrude in Hamlet. This was during the play that was Hamlet's trap to determine what really happened to his father. Half the fun of quoting Shakespeare is knowing which play you're quoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Champions should be trying to take the best of the comics genre and build on it' date=' not emualting it so faithfully that it copies its flaws as well.[/quote'] "Me thinks she doth protest too much." -McBeth's wife, if I recall correctly Setting the source of the quote aside, what the hell are you talking about? Typically, the use of that quote is to indicate that someone is too eager to say that they did not do something, or the like. What on earth does that have to do with what I said? Don't bother answering, I'll do it for you -- Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Not correct. The actual quite is "the lady doth p[otest too miuch' date= methinks" and is from Queen gertrude in Hamlet. This was during the play that was Hamlet's trap to determine what really happened to his father. Half the fun of quoting Shakespeare is knowing which play you're quoting. "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." -Arnold Schwarzenegger, Hamlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! For what it's worth at this point, I like the cover. I don't like the hat, but that's a character thing, not the cover. But the cover... well, it amuses me, and it really does seem to jump out at me, even though that may be for its simplicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! ...what the hell are you talking about? Don't bother answering.... ... Well, aside from your little rant there, you complain too much on this thread. I thought it was quite simple enough an understanding. I'll remember to try to break things down for you in the future, if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! The actual {quote} is "the lady doth [protest] too [much]' date=' methinks" and is from Queen gertrude in [i']Hamlet[/i]. Well, I knew it was a lady from one of Will's plays. Half the fun of quoting Shakespeare is knowing which play you're quoting. For you, for me, it's just quoting phrases where I can find a relevant place to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightybec Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I like it. Yeah, but you like sheep. Though you have cleaned up in your pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_tamer Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! To me all the art is important' date=' but the cover is what sucks the person in; it's your first representation of what lies within those pages. TC is ok but I'd hate to see all of Hero's covers follow this pattern from now on. And hopefully the interior art won't be bad [the picture of Cantrip looks good, so hopefully the rest of the interior art will follow suit']. Champions is a comic book emulation game. So far it seems like only Green Ronin understands that with their M&M line. I couldn't agree more with you about M&M (in whose books the art almost always rocks), or about the cover "sucking the person in." I guess many of us on these boards are probably going to give any Champions product a fair shake regardless what the cover looks like. So for me, the cover is just gravy; the useful stuff is inside (including the interior art). But for bringing in people from other game systems (M&M) or other genres, the cover is much more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." -Arnold Schwarzenegger, Hamlet It was Dick the Butcher, from Henry VI, pt. 2 Keith "No, really" Curtis PS. and played by Stallone, IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Great Googly-Mooglies, folks. It's a cover. It's also an attempt to reduce costs. It works fine for the purpose and it's better than no book at all. Keith "Got a life" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Setting the source of the quote aside, what the hell are you talking about? Typically, the use of that quote is to indicate that someone is too eager to say that they did not do something, or the like. What on earth does that have to do with what I said? Don't bother answering, I'll do it for you -- Nothing. ... Well, aside from your little rant there, you complain too much on this thread. I thought it was quite simple enough an understanding Which just demonstrates that you don't understand what your misquoted comment really meant. Thanks for playing. PS: I'm not the one complaining endlessly about the Teen Champions cover because it doesn't yank the eyeballs of the MTV generation. That's other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Great Googly-Mooglies, folks. It's a cover. It's also an attempt to reduce costs. It works fine for the purpose and it's better than no book at all. Keith "Got a life" Curtis That white cover named "BOOK" is always an option. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Which just demonstrates that you don't understand what your misquoted comment really meant. Thanks for playing. Sure. Apparently your comprehension of various types of complaining are limited to one side, so I'll keep those limits in mind. But this has gone on enough. It's your Scattergories and you can take it home now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Sure. Apparently your comprehension of various types of complaining are limited to one side' date=' so I'll keep those limits in mind.[/quote'] Ah, so evidently you think that cautioning against being too faithful to a medium, to the point of emulating its flaws, is "complaining." Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdog Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Ah, so evidently you think that cautioning against being too faithful to a medium, to the point of emulating its flaws, is "complaining." Whatever. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you've talked a lot more about what you don't like in cover art than what you do like. You said you didn't like it when the illustrations showed characters fighting other characters when said fight would be a mismatch, which I guess is why you didn't like the BBB cover. You said you didn't like it when the scene depicted does not in relate to the context of the books. Mitchell's opinion is that the Teen Champions cover would be better if the character was doing something active. He gave a specific example of how it could be done, while still fitting into the context of the cover design that was acutally chosen. You never actually addressed this point, either by agreeing or disagreeing with him. So instead of giving vague warnings about emulating the "flaws" of the current genre, or being "too faithful" to the medium, it might help me understand your position if you could tell us what you would like to see emulated in the cover art. Or give examples of artwork you've seen in other games that "emulated" the genre without being "too faithful" to the medium. I know you say the cover art isn't that important to you, but without any frame of reference of what you would like to see, it's hard to figure out what you really want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you've talked a lot more about what you don't like in cover art than what you do like. You said you didn't like it when the illustrations showed characters fighting other characters when said fight would be a mismatch, which I guess is why you didn't like the BBB cover. You said you didn't like it when the scene depicted does not in relate to the context of the books. Mitchell's opinion is that the Teen Champions cover would be better if the character was doing something active. He gave a specific example of how it could be done, while still fitting into the context of the cover design that was acutally chosen. You never actually addressed this point, either by agreeing or disagreeing with him. So instead of giving vague warnings about emulating the "flaws" of the current genre, or being "too faithful" to the medium, it might help me understand your position if you could tell us what you would like to see emulated in the cover art. Or give examples of artwork you've seen in other games that "emulated" the genre without being "too faithful" to the medium. I know you say the cover art isn't that important to you, but without any frame of reference of what you would like to see, it's hard to figure out what you really want. Honestly, I have no idea. I can tell you what I wouldn't like to see, based on what's come before and what's been suggested here. Really, with a book, I'm more concerned with the content and quality of the writing, than I am with seeing ACTION!!!! and DRAMA!!!! in the cover art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Honestly, I have no idea. I can tell you what I wouldn't like to see, based on what's come before and what's been suggested here. Really, with a book, I'm more concerned with the content and quality of the writing, than I am with seeing ACTION!!!! and DRAMA!!!! in the cover art. Although in the Pulp HERO book, it would've helped to see the words ACTION!!!! and DRAMA!!!! in the cover. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdog Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Honestly' date=' I have no idea. I can tell you what I wouldn't like to see, based on what's come before and what's been suggested here. [/quote'] Well, that may be why others are saying that you're complaining. You took a shot at some of us when you wrote: PS: I'm not the one complaining endlessly about the Teen Champions cover because it doesn't yank the eyeballs of the MTV generation. That's other people. Mitchell said the cover could have been better, and demonstrated how he thought it could be better. Agree or disagree with him, but at least he knows what he wants. If you can't articulate what you would like to see, I think it's difficult to really contribute in a thread about cover artwork. Btw, the desire to see action and drama in comics and/or animation didn't exactly start with the MTV generation. It's been an essential part of animation for decades. It's why Mickey Mouse is a crewman on a moving vessel in 1928's "Steamboat Willie" instead of working as a tollbooth collector or court stenographer. really, with a book, I'm more concerned with the content and quality of the writing, than I am with seeing ACTION!!!! and DRAMA!!!! in the cover art. I don't think anyone here is arguing that the cover art is more important or as important as the content. An arresting cover won't save a bad product. But a cover that doesn't attract attention may never give its content a chance to be seen by potential new customers. A Champions product is not a Champions character. It's not a case of "The more points we put into content, the less points we have to put into cover art." This discussion is about the execution of the concept, not the quality of the artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightybec Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I like it. Case Closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Although in the Pulp HERO book' date=' it would've helped to see the words [i']ACTION!!!![/i] and DRAMA!!!! in the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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