Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

[zornwil]

How do or would you model a Continuous attack intended to occur at a faster rate than the SPD of the character producing it (assuming you'd allow it, of course)?

[Doug Limmer]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Two things come to mind:

1.) Buy a computer to do the attack.

2.) Use Gradual Effect.

 

The computer seems expensive, and I'm not sure how well you can 'tweak' Gradual Effect to fit exactly what you want.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Give the character +X SPD, Only to Use Special Attack (-1).

 

Kinda like how Grond has +2 SPD only to Punch.

[Ganesh]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

This one's come up on the forums before...summons, computers, and the like were all mentioned, but someone had an idea that seemed quite elegant(I don't remember who, sadly...Vorch, or something like that?)

 

You can cause things to act less frequently than you do with limitations that go up the time scale.

 

Why not have an advantage that makes them act faster? If it can act every phaze, that might be a +1 advantage.

 

Just another thought.

[zornwil]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Yeah, the +SPD for the action is the one I'd normally do, I was just curious what other people like. Appreciate the thoughts, and, Ganesh, good idea (even if repeated).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

In 4th edition, if it was Continuous and Area Effect, it would take effect every Segment rather than Phase. Is this not still the case?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

I'm assuming this is going to be a 'flame attack' or somesuch that causes damage per segment?

 

The most general solution would be extra speed (to take you up to speed 12), inherent, with a limited form of inherent on your existing speed, allowing it to be drained but not to reduce your attack rate for the chosen power.

 

So, assuming a speed 5, buy your attack AND +7 Speed (70 points) inherent (+1/4) total 87 points only to increase segments on which attack causes damage (-1) +43 points

 

PLUS INHERENT on own speed as a naked advantage = 12 points ONLY to maintain attack rate of (whatever) power -1 total +6 points

 

Total cost 49 points.

 

I am really not a fan of buying attacks as summoned entities, and simply increasing the attack damage and adding gradual effect is problematic especially if your speed is not 6.

 

Anyway, that's how I'd do it.

[zornwil]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

In 4th edition' date=' if it was Continuous and Area Effect, it would take effect every Segment rather than Phase. Is this not still the case?[/quote']

pp. 99-100 of 5ER say: "If a Constant Power affects an area...Any target who enters the area takes damage or is affected in the Segment he enters and every time the attacker's Phase occurs while the target remains within the area." so I don't think it's the case anymore, but there might be more on the topic.

 

I never liked or allowed Continuous AoE to go off every segment, anyway.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

In 4th edition' date=' if it was Continuous and Area Effect, it would take effect every Segment rather than Phase. Is this not still the case?[/quote']

 

Actually it didn't (I just checked) it did say that it hangs round in the segents between phases but it did not increase the rate at which an attack did damage.

 

As an aside, I keep on thinking 4th edition had all the answers, but that's just Golden Age Effect: 5th is certainly not a step backwards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

****Awaits deluge of examples of how THAT isn't true...***

[zornwil]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Actually it didn't (I just checked) it did say that it hangs round in the segents between phases but it did not increase the rate at which an attack did damage.

 

As an aside, I keep on thinking 4th edition had all the answers, but that's just Golden Age Effect: 5th is certainly not a step backwards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

****Awaits deluge of examples of how THAT isn't true...***

Ah, I wondered, I didn't have 4th handy so couldn't check, thanks.

 

I think there's also a fair number of legitimate clarifications in 5th over 4th that really aren't changes. Even though I personally do prefer the common perception of how Damage Shield worked in 4th, IMHO, once I reread the text carefully, I think Steve Long is correct that 5th is actually a clarification of something ill-worded in 4th.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

...............

 

I think there's also a fair number of legitimate clarifications in 5th over 4th that really aren't changes. Even though I personally do prefer the common perception of how Damage Shield worked in 4th, IMHO, once I reread the text carefully, I think Steve Long is correct that 5th is actually a clarification of something ill-worded in 4th.

 

 

I'd be marginally more convinced of that argument if there was a single 4th ed published character that bought continuous as part of the cost of their damage shield. I am not aware of one.

 

I've re-read the description, and Occam's Razor tells me 5th got it wrong. So that's one for fourth, but I can't think or many others (Maybe regeneration, definitely shapeshift).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Doesn't uncontrolled cause an attack to go off every segment?

 

(apparently I'm too lazy to get my book from the next room - and the fresh coffee and bagles in front of me are a factor in that...)

[Mike W]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

You could probably do something with making it Independent. At that point, when the power goes off is irrelevant to the character's stats in all regards. Then you could buy the power up the SPD/time chart based on how often it was meant to go off.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

I'd go with the bonus SPD, but I'd be more inclined to say "Speed is arbitrary anyway - just slap a few more DC on it to simulate its constant action".

[zornwil]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

I'd be marginally more convinced of that argument if there was a single 4th ed published character that bought continuous as part of the cost of their damage shield. I am not aware of one.

 

I've re-read the description, and Occam's Razor tells me 5th got it wrong. So that's one for fourth, but I can't think or many others (Maybe regeneration, definitely shapeshift).

Shrug, the published write-ups hardly have a great rep for representing the system well, sad to say.

 

When I reread 4th, it seemed pretty clear that it didn't address it by omission and via the omission in this case it seemed that the implication was you needed to have it "always on" (and IIRC in the old days you didn't buy Continuous and Always On, they were mutually exclusive, a cheap way to get Continuous so long as you did have some limitation in the power).

[Zed-F]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Doesn't uncontrolled cause an attack to go off every segment?

 

(apparently I'm too lazy to get my book from the next room - and the fresh coffee and bagles in front of me are a factor in that...)

No, it doesn't. It just divorces you from having to maintain a constant/continuous power personally.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

No' date=' it doesn't. It just divorces you from having to maintain a constant/continuous power personally.[/quote']

Ah, thanks. Kept forgetting to check the ruling every time I passed by the book today (dozens of times...)

[prestidigitator]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

How about Gradual Effect: 1 Phase (-0). It has a very small benefit to the attacker in that the target cannot Recover any damage until the attacker's next Phase, and probably a small drawback in that the target is not likely to be Stunned (depending on the GM). Then the damage can be rolled an apportioned time-wise as the GM sees fit.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Yeah. I would just make the attack a disembodied computer and go from there...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Yeah. I would just make the attack a disembodied computer and go from there...

 

The problem with this is that, unless you actually want the attack to be a semi-sentient external construct, this doesn't necessarily simulate what you are after well. Computers can be controlled or fooled.

 

If, OTOH, the attack is 'Napalm', building it as a computer makes little or no sense. You might be able to put napalm out, with the right adjustment power you might even be able to control it to an extent but good luck fooling it.

 

Summoning a homing missile (we had a big discussion on this way back) I can see as this kind of construct, but even then I don't have to like it. So, as with many things, we start with what we want then reverse engineer. So, Zornwil: what kind of attack did you have in mind?

[zornwil]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

Just a theoretical question on different ways to do this, really.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

I'd go with the bonus SPD' date=' but I'd be more inclined to say "Speed is arbitrary anyway - just slap a few more DC on it to simulate its constant action".[/quote']

 

I'm with Hugh on this one. Set attack power DC = {12 * [desired DC/segment] / SPD} and define it as acting per segment (+0 Advantage).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

I'm with Hugh on this one. Set attack power DC = {12 * [desired DC/segment] / SPD} and define it as acting per segment (+0 Advantage).

 

 

....which doesn't work out well if you don't have a speed of 1,2,3,4,6 or 12 and interacts strangely with defences: assuming you are speed 6, your forula would give a 3d6 KA per seg power 6d6 KA with gradual effect which will cause much more damage than a 3d6/seg power. Same number of DC at the end of the turn, much more damage through defences.

[Constantine]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

I, too, though uncontrolled meant the damage happened every segment. Maybe it used to in fourth? Anyway, since that doesn't appear to be an option, I think the speed only for a certain attack is the best way to go. I don't know how much I'd give as a limitation for that, though. It could be really powerful if that is the characters main attack...

[TaxiMan]

Re: Continuous Attack Faster than Character's Speed?

 

OK, I posted fast & didn't provide an example. That means I didn't check the repercussions.

 

If you:

 

Setattack power DC = {12 * [desired DC/segment] / SPD} and define it as acting per segment

 

then we're doing what I recommended earlier. However, the AP will be huge and it deserves a limitation (after all, one big attack is better than a bunch of little ones). Using the Limited Power rules (e.g. "power loses half its effectiveness = -1"), I get the following limitations. The effectiveness is calculated as SPD/12 & compared to the Limited Power ratios.

 

SPD : Lim value

1,2 : -2

3,4 : -1 1/2

5-7 : -1

8 : -1/2

9 : -1/4

10-12 : -0

 

Let's try it. If I have SPD 7 and want to do 2d6 killing per phase, here's how I'd do it:

 

X DC = {12 * 6 DC / 7} = 10.3; round that however you feel as GM, let's say 'round down' in this case so it's 10 DC. So for 50 real points, a SPD 7 character can do 2d6K / segment. It'll cost him 3 END / segment, and he can't do anything else since he's firing this power constantly.

 

So for 50 points he gets a 2d6 KA that happens twice (on average) per phase, and that burns up his entire phase and costs 6 END. Seems harsh, I could buy 2x attacks, MPA and add "entire phase" to get something cheaper. But still, it's close...?