Infinite Crisis

[Dominique]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Yeah. In many ways it's like the complete opposite of Marvel's Ultimate universe' date=' which was intended to draw in new readers.[/quote']

 

I think that's what their new "All Star" line is designed for.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

I got the impression that the Earth-1 original Superman was in Superman/Batman #18. I also get the feeling that the E-1 original might be the one that is left when all of this is done.

 

OK, I thought that might be what you are referrring to. Given Loeb's tendancy to play a bit fast and loose with the details of continuity in Superman/Batman, I assumed that the future Superman seen in that story arc was simply meant to be a future version of the current Superman and that the similarities to the version of the Earth-1 Superman seen in the ending of that arc was simply an homage to Alan Moore's great "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow". I'm not sure it was meant as an indicator that it was actually the Superman from that story.

 

With that said, it would not surprise me if the Earth-1 Supes did put in an appearance given that we have also seen an adult Jason Todd in the Batman books as the Red Hood who could be interpreted as the original Earth-1 version whose origin was overwritten and an alternate Earth Luthor in Villains United who as far as most can tell has to be the Earth-1 Luthor.

[Blue]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Aside from a few oddball random issues, I'm not a big follower of the DC Universe. Sure, I've got The Darknight returns, the Byrne reboot of superman, etc., but who doesn't? It's all the bits of DC lore that skate by me most of the time in events like this.

 

That said, I liked Identity Crisis for the fact that I didn't have to know every single character before I started reading it, and disliked it for what they did to Sue Dibney's past.

 

But I think I'll wait for Infinite Crisis to come out in the trades. Anytime they start branching a storyline into a dozen titles or more, my eyes glaze over. That worked on me the first time, at Marvel, when I was a teen. Now, not so much.

 

That said: I'm pleased to see so many people in favor of what they're doing.

 

I read this morning (on the HeroClix forum) a Marvel Press Release about culling the mutant Hordes through the "House of M" series down to about 5% of the existing mutant numbers. I'm sure they'll take out characters I like, but I think it's in the best interest of hte line to make them again the underdogs. I'll always be leary of attempts to rewrite history, considering how bad some companies have been at doing it.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

I hear ya' date=' Rod. I am a total JSA/All-Star Squadron fanboy. It's really kind of sad.[/quote']

 

Oh, yeah, there was a point in the early 80s where my two favorite comics were All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc. I also went digging through the bargain bins at the local comic book stores to get a pretty much complete run of the revived All-Star Comics from the 1970s as well as the continuation of those storylines in Adventure Comics. There was a lot of fun stuff in those comics -- sigh, I still miss the original Helena Wayne version of the Huntress.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

I think that's what their new "All Star" line is designed for.

 

I just wished they hadn't used the "All Star" moniker on that line, simply because to me that name is associated with the JSA and company -- from the original All-Star Comics in the 40s to the All-Star revival in the 70s and All-Star Squadron in the the 80s.

[CBikle]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

 

But I think I'll wait for Infinite Crisis to come out in the trades.

 

I'm not sure how well Infinite Crisis will translate as a trade.

[Dominique]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

I used to love Infinity Inc. (along with the Teen Titans), but COIE killed it. IT was one of the casulities of the last big Crisis. I'm hoping (however futile it may be) that we'll see the return of Helena Wayne, and the other Earth-2 heroes, but I doubt it.

[Blue]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

See, it's phrases like "Earth-2" that lose me.

 

I bet wikipedia will know. They know everything!...

[MitchellS]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

See, it's phrases like "Earth-2" that lose me.

 

I bet wikipedia will know. They know everything!...

Well after Crisis there was only supposed to be 1 Earth [the were all merged together into one]. So you can forget about all the others.

[BlackSword]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Although they are largely well-written' date=' most of the [i']Infinite Crisis [/i]storylines had a lame, half-baked premise.

 

****SPOILERS BELOW****

 

 

 

- Identity Crisis: The whole mindwipe thing was dumb and had nothing to do with the murder.

 

- OMAC Project: Batman loses control of his super-advanced spy satellites. This is the 3rd time in three years that Batman's "fail-safe" plan has fallen into the wrong hands (JLA's Tower Of Babylon arc and the War Games storyline). The story is further flawed in that one of the KEY plot elements happens in another comic outside of the miniseries.

 

- Spirit Of Vengeance: Boring and there've been a few too many "Spectre out of control" storylines.

 

- Infinite Crisis: Tied too heavily into the other minis and waaay too dependant on continuity and minutiae (and I'm a fan of that stuff) and there's no way it could possibly attract new readers. I don't think somebody new to DCU through Batman Begins or the JLU cartoon are going to know what to make of Batman's mindwipe and killer satellites or the golden-age, Earth 2 Superman.

 

- Villains United : this one's actually pretty good. Lots of villains and pretty much a self-contained story.

 

- Rann-Thanagar War: Not as good as VU, but pretty good. Has Hawkman, Hawkwoman, Adam Strange, Captain Comet, et al. Only real complaint is that anytime Adam Strange is used in a story, he should at least once, solve a problem through some obscure scientific trivia like he did in the original Gardner Fox stories.

I agree with the ordering, I enjoyed Villains United and R-T War the most. OMAC was a chore. Day of Venegance was okay, but mostly because of the motley crew of mages that were being used, I liked the cast, but the story was weak.

 

Identity Crisis was okay, I understand the mindwipe being presented, just not sure if it was presented correctly, it was one of those stories where the heroes discover something unexpected while investigating something unrelated. It should have focused more on Wally or another character discovering the mindwipe as opposed to those involved going, "Oh Crap."

[CBikle]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Actually there's a Post-CRISIS Earth 2 that used to be Earth 3 pre-CRISIS and the only living inhabitant left from that world is Alex Luthor jr. , son of Earth 3's Alexander Luthor, not to be confused with the new Earth 2 Alexander Luthor.

 

Also, the golden-age, pre-CRISIS Earth 2 Superman is not from the current Earth 2.

 

And "I don't Know" is on 3rd base.

 

Does that help clear up everything ?

[rjcurrie]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Although they are largely well-written' date=' most of the [i']Infinite Crisis [/i]storylines had a lame, half-baked premise.

 

****SPOILERS BELOW****

 

 

 

- Identity Crisis: The whole mindwipe thing was dumb and had nothing to do with the murder.

 

 

Yeah, but the mindwipe thing does set some other things in motion.

 

- OMAC Project: Batman loses control of his super-advanced spy satellites. This is the 3rd time in three years that Batman's "fail-safe" plan has fallen into the wrong hands (JLA's Tower Of Babylon arc and the War Games storyline). The story is further flawed in that one of the KEY plot elements happens in another comic outside of the miniseries.

 

Yeah, Bats needs better security Rucka himself admits that "Sacrifice" should have been part of the the actually miniseries and in fact, the collected version is going to include both "Countdown to Infinite Crisis" and the Wonder Woman issue you mention above.

 

- Spirit Of Vengeance: Boring and there've been a few too many "Spectre out of control" storylines.

 

Day of Vengeance, actually. While I agree that this was the weakest of the four lead-in miniseries, I quite liked the main characters, especially Detective Chimp. The main point seems to have been to make magic, a wilder, less-controlled factor in the DC universe.

 

Infinite Crisis: Tied too heavily into the other minis and waaay too dependant on continuity and minutiae (and I'm a fan of that stuff) and there's no way it could possibly attract new readers. I don't think somebody new to DCU through Batman Begins or the JLU cartoon are going to know what to make of Batman's mindwipe and killer satellites or the golden-age, Earth 2 Superman.

 

Supposedly, Issue 2 of Infinite Crisis is intended to bring everyone up-to-date on the current state of the universe including a 5 page summary of the history of the DCU pencilled by George Perez. I suspect this will be done when the 4 COIE refugees bring everyone up-to-date on the former multiverse and related matters.

 

- Villains United : this one's actually pretty good. Lots of villains and pretty much a self-contained story.

 

Yup, the best of the bunch.

 

- Rann-Thanagar War: Not as good as VU, but pretty good. Has Hawkman, Hawkwoman, Adam Strange, Captain Comet, et al. Only real complaint is that anytime Adam Strange is used in a story, he should at least once, solve a problem through some obscure scientific trivia like he did in the original Gardner Fox stories.

 

Pretty much sums it up.

 

There's also the fifth miniseries which ties heavily into Infinite Crisis, even though it wasn't marketed that way: The Return of Donna Troy. While the first three issues were uninspiring, the fourth issue pretty much revealed that post-Crisis Earth was broken and that Donna Troy, like Power Girl, is the result of improper merging of characters from many Earths. Dark Angel, part of John Byrne's horrible mangling of Donna, is revealed to be not only an alternate Donna who had escaped the merger, but the Anti-Matter's own version of Harbinger. Thus, Donna has become the spiritual successor to the original Harbinger and is gathering heroes to deal with whatever may be happening with the rift that is appearing in space. Who thinks that that rift may be the Anti-Monitor returning?

[Dominique]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Could be. I'm also wondering if Harbinger will be making a come back. Even though she was "killed" we all know that means nothing lately.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Actually there's a Post-CRISIS Earth 2 that used to be Earth 3 pre-CRISIS and the only living inhabitant left from that world is Alex Luthor jr. , son of Earth 3's Alexander Luthor, not to be confused with the new Earth 2 Alexander Luthor.

 

Also, the golden-age, pre-CRISIS Earth 2 Superman is not from the current Earth 2.

 

And "I don't Know" is on 3rd base.

 

Does that help clear up everything ?

 

Yeah, they should have never allowed Grant Morrison to give the name Earth 2 tol his anti-matter universe version of the pre-crisis Earth 3. Also, to be completely accurate, the anti-matter Earth 2 home to the current Crime Syndicate is similar to, but not identical to, the pre-Crisis Earth 3.

[Dominique]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Grant made a number of changes to the Crime Syndicate earth (most of which I liked BTW), but it will just confuse those who don't know the whole back story. So to help simplify things, here's a link to a little primer that will help bring you up to speed.

 

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?=261f5541049a19adbbcbd3be9b080562&threadid=46268

 

As you can see, I've got WAY to much free time today.

[CBikle]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Yeah' date=' they should have never allowed Grant Morrison to give the name Earth 2 tol his anti-matter universe version of the pre-crisis Earth 3. Also, to be completely accurate, the anti-matter Earth 2 home to the current Crime Syndicate is similar to, but not identical to, the pre-Crisis Earth 3.[/quote']

 

 

*****SPOILER****

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I like the idea that the new CSA earth is called Earth 2.

 

The big mistake was dredging up Alex Luthor, the E1 Superboy (or is he the one from Earth Prime ?) and the E2 golden age Superman. Just a lot of confusing baggage that'll alienate potential new readers. Long-term, DC should be going in the opposite direction.

[Tamashii2000]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Marvel wouldn't touch that. The word MUTANT doesn't appear anywhere in the title.

 

Infinite crisis on mutant earths?

[keithcurtis]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Long-term' date=' DC should be going in the opposite direction.[/quote']

That's what they've been doing for the last 20 years. So much pre-Crisis has been slipping in through the cracks, I don't think it really matters.

Krypto

Pulp Science Krypton

All Martians are weakened by fire

 

Keith "Hmmm. I have an idea for a thread..." Curtis

[CBikle]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

That's what they've been doing for the last 20 years. So much pre-Crisis has been slipping in through the cracks, I don't think it really matters.

Krypto

Pulp Science Krypton

All Martians are weakened by fire

 

That stuff I don't have a problem with (Bring on the Legion Of Super Pets.).

 

I just think it's a bad idea to reintroduce confusing concepts that are now even more confusing and convoluted ("That's the golden age Superman, he was the original Superman of Earth 2, but he lives with the Lois Lane of Earth 2 and the Superboy of our earth, Earth Prime. They all live together with Alex Luthor, from Earth 3, in a pocket dimension that he (alex) created. Nobody remembers them anymore, because their earths merged with ours. In fact the only people that remember are Psycho-pirate, Shazam and Grant Morrisson (from when Grant guest-starred in Animal Man)."

[Dominique]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Here's a very funny page by page breakdown of the book.

 

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=46414

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

I used to love Infinity Inc. (along with the Teen Titans)' date=' but COIE killed it. IT was one of the casulities of the last big Crisis. I'm hoping (however futile it may be) that we'll see the return of Helena Wayne, and the other Earth-2 heroes, but I doubt it. [/quote']

 

Yeah. I hear ya. One of the reasons I love The current JSA is that it is, in some ways, a sequel to II, given they are using the post crisis versions of the characters but we have seen Fury, Powergir;l, Brainwave Jr, Obsidian, Jade, and others. I love that about the comic.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

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With the events of the "Return of Donna Troy", it's likely that Donna may take up Harbinger's role, as she can access Harbinger's files and such

[Dominique]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Yeah. I hear ya. One of the reasons I love The current JSA is that it is' date=' in some ways, a sequel to II, given they are using the post crisis versions of the characters but we have seen Fury, Powergir;l, Brainwave Jr, Obsidian, Jade, and others. I love that about the comic. [/quote']

 

Yeah, but look at what they did with a lot of the II characters. Obsidian and Brain wave went bad. Nukeleon/Atom Smasher is dead. Jade, well that could be its own thread, and Northwind was running around with Black Adam.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

Yeah' date=' but look at what they did with a lot of the II characters. Obsidian and Brain wave went bad. Nukeleon/Atom Smasher is dead. Jade, well that could be its own thread, and Northwind was running around with Black Adam.[/quote']

 

Well Brainwave was being controlled by the worm that was a Capt Marvel Villian... and I can agree with you to a point, but it is still cool to at least have them onscreen.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Infinite Crisis

 

and people complain about Marvel...