Retcon the CU

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I did like the point on another thread that any Super paying for LS: Longevity is ripped off - by the time it benefits the character' date=' the magic has gone away and he loses his powers anyway.[/quote']

 

Yup.

 

Except that the Empyreans and other NPCs who arbitrarily have "real" immortality keep on ticking as happy as you please, just as they have for all these millennia, even in the times of very low magic. Maybe their other powers wax and wane (because immortality is somehow less magical than flight).

 

Anyway, I don't like it, so I don't use it, and we've re-tread this ground more than enough.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Anyway' date=' I don't like it, so I don't use it, and we've re-tread this ground more than enough.[/quote']

 

The real key here is, whether you use the "magic source" or not, there is likely to be no visible difference in your CU. As such, using, replacing or removing this Universal Power Source makes no real difference to how your game plays.

[McCoy]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I: I'd rather just say "Physics works differently in this universe" and be done with it. That said' date=' saying "Magic" or "Psi" or "Primal" or "Quantum" is all fine, if that's what you're looking for. I admit to being biassed towards terms with less baggage like "Primal" or "Quantum", but it's all good.[/quote']

That pretty much covers it.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

A: Recommended rewrite

I think what's needed is something like this:

In the real world, the world the players inhabit, there are a number of different kinds of energies (and "energy-like" forces). These include electro-magnetic radiation, kinetic energy, gravity, chemical energy, momentum, and so on. We will refer to these as "mundane energy" and the physics of the real world as "the physics of mundane energy". Note that in many science fiction setting "the physics of mundane energy" is stretched to include FTL, teleportation, and other things that are (maybe) impossible in the real world.

In the Champions Universe there are other energy-effects. They fall into two broad categories: Magic and Superpowers. Magic is all those things we associate with the word: spells, magic swords, curses, and so on. Superpowers are what you think of when you imagine people flying, shooting beams from their hands or eyes, inhumanly strong people, and so on. In the Champions Universe both magic and superpowers can (and often do) violate the physics of mundane energy. They do this by, in essence, manipulating mundane energies in "impossible" or "non-scientific" ways.

This is possible because there is something---not an energy or a force---which can control energies and energy-like forces. For lack of another term, we call this "primal". Primal can control all mundane energies, making them do things the physics of mundane energies would say is impossible. Some people and/or things can direct primal, to achieve the "impossible." Primal is filtered through "mana" in magic, meaning that mages manipulate mana not primal, but primal is worked directly in superpowers.

Note that primal merely explains why "impossible" things happen; it is not a special effect (as that term is used in the rules), nor an origin for a character's powers, nor the "source" of his powers. The mage's fireblast is not primal nor magic, it is fire (though his "Mana Bolt" is mana); the brick's hyperstrength is strength, not primal. However, these and all magic/superpowers are only possible because the character is, without knowing it, somehow able to control primal, getting primal to manipulate mundane energies/forces (or, for a mage, to create the mana he then consciously directs).

The level of primal varies through time; some times there is nearly none, and neither magic nor superpowers are possible. At other times, the level of primal is high, and both magic and superpowers are possible or even (relatively) common. When the level of primal is moderate, magic is possible, with the primal "creating" mana; because superpowers use primal more directly, at these times superpowers are not possible.

Note that certain "supergadgets", certain devices built by gadgeteer characters, will violate the physics of mundane energies. They can do this because they, in some way, "tap into" primal; it may well be that these gadgets almost work by the physics of mundane energy (for instance, using ordinary batteries, or routing electricity in an ordinary way), but there will be something that doesn't "make sense" to a PhD with no experience in superpowers. Such supergadgets may well have the same effect as a gadget that doesn't "tap into" does, yet it will still be dependent on a sufficiently high level of primal.

 

{Please note: I took the term "primal" from the "The Primal Order" series of books. If this is the only place the word was used, another one will be needed.}

I still have a problem with this, because you still have all superpowers/magic/psionics/whatever are all essentially coming from the same source; they are just accessing this source in different ways now.

 

I personally don't like this for ascetic(sp?) reasons, IMO magic should not be related in any way to where superpowers come from, the same goes for psionics.

 

While this opinion is campaign dependent, and really isn't pertinent for designing the overall company published campaign world, it would still get my hackles up if you still had there being only one source of the fantastic in the campaign.

 

In my campaign world I have at the moment 5 sources, each distinct and different:

1. Magic, magic comes from a being tapping into a metaphysical dimension of infinite "energy" that is manipulated to create an effect. How this is tapped into is fairly wide open in my campaign. While the setting that my players will be in is dominated by a D&D style magic paradigm, basically anything that has magic as its special F/X taps into this dimension regardless on how it is implemented.

 

2. Psionics, basically "magic" that derives its power from certain qualities of mental thought (which in the campaign world has certain extra-physical properties that are not based in mundane physics).

 

3. Divine Magic, "magic" whose source comes from divine beings.

 

4. Super Powers & Hyper Physics, anything that is physically impossible under mundane (as in real world) physics but in the campaign world could still be described as scientific. Super Science powers comes from the fact that the universe itself has certain physical properties that allow for things that would be impossible under our real world physics. For example, Adamantium is physically impossible in our world, but in the campaign it's possible because matter is fundementally different in the campaign universe. It is perfectly scientific and the laws of physics as they exist in the campaign universe are not violated in the slighted by it. So, basically all the powers that can be described as comic book based in tone are covered by this fundemental difference in the campaign universe for their source.

 

5. Finally, the fifth power in my campaign isn't a single source of power, it is a grab bag group of sources that are distinct from the other four categories where powers can coem from. These powers just don't fit into other four categories. The Force from SW would fit into this category. Some of the natural spell like abilities of monsters could fit into here as well.

 

So, basically, I think if we were to retcom the CU we should completely eradicate any mention of there being only one fundemental source for all super powers of any kind.

TB

[MitchellS]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I’m not retconning the CU. My upcoming campaign will basically have the follow sources of power:

 

Primal Energies:

The primal energies of the universe consist of Cosmic [the energy which brings life to the universe], Magic [effectively the energy which regulates death and ending], and Temporal [the energy which acts as a buffer between the other two]. All divine beings, demons/devils, galactic and dimensional entities, etc. tap into and manipulated these 3 energies and use them in differing ways to manifest their powers.

 

Mutation:

All superhumans on earth are the result of meta-gene mutations which have occasionally occurred throughout mankind’s history. Thus you have a fixed reason for why most of the historical/mythological heroes existed. This mutation was escalated in 1910 when the particles floating in the atmosphere from the 1908 Tunguska blast became irradiated by the energies within the tail of Halley’s Comet. After that the rate for meta-birth went from 1 in 100 million to 1 in 1 million.

 

A: Magic: What most human mystics use and consider to be magic is actually a blending of the 3 primal energies. There are a few, more advanced, mystics who have learned to manipulate one or two aspect of the 3 energies [Markath the Destroyer being the Master of Magic, for example] separately but those mystics are very rare and seldom remain earthbound, instead seeing to become one with the energy itself.

 

B: Super-Science: There is no such thing as “super-science.” There is just science. Meta’s with great intellect have learned more of the secrets of science and have used that knowledge to advance mankind, or in some cases to hinder it. So while many advanced technologies are extremely expensive most are available for sale to anyone with the money to purchase them. In the 21st Century, for example, most world leaders use invisible force field generators to protect them from assassination attempts.

 

C: Psionics: Psionics is just a normal Meta-mutation though many believe it is a separate form of energy itself. A broad group at the United Psionics Institute have spent years attempting to prove the theory; so far to no success. UPI is heavily funded by the US Government as well as several major corporations, both of whom call upon the organization when they believe psionics are attempting to manipulate governmental or corporate affairs.

 

Secret Races:

Throughout human history there have been times when humanity has taken strange evolutionary steps. This has resulted in several species such as the Atlanteans, Avran [birdmen] of Batan, Corilla [intelligent white apes] of the Congo, Beastmen of Lemuria, and the Naga of the Amazon. Most of these races were hunted by mankind of the millennia and so have taken to living in small, well hidden, communities rather then intermingle with humanity often.

 

There have also been 2 races which were manipulated by visiting alien as part of an experiment in the distant past. The Empyreans are near-perfect human specimens who have the ability to directly manipulate the primal energies. Empyreans are virtually immortal and beyond human needs and only feel an instinctual need to sire offspring about once a millennium. The Morlocks are a race of sub-humans who live deep underground in vast expansive cities [and are believed to be the inspiration of H.G. Wells’ writings]. The Morlocks are clannish and shun contact between other clans but occasionally a Meta-Morlock will come forth and unite several clans. At those time the surface world is at risk from invasion.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

My entire retcon will be Nighthawk wearing dark blue and calling himself Blue Falcon.

[James Gillen]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

A History of the World

 

The Age of Swords and Sorcery: In the days before the sinking of Atlantis, the continents were in a different configuration and the power of magic, while waning, still held a malign influence, especially in the ancient civilizations in the territory where Africa is now. Life was cheap, and while honor was esteemed, cunning was better. Into this realm strode brutal barbarians, shifty thieves and even shiftier sorceror-priests. If it seems like this background was already devised by some other author, well, it was.

 

The Rise of Monotheism: God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son." Abe said, "man, you must be puttin' me on." Abe said "No." God said "What?? You can do what you want to but- next time you see me comin', you better run."

So Abe said "where is this killin' to be done?" And God said "out on Highway 61."

 

The Roman Empire: On the basis of the Etruscan civilization, a group of rebels founded the first true republic, mainly in order to preserve their own class privileges from the "plebs." While this republic was more fair and better organized than the governments of the Hellenic city-states, it was far more prone to class warfare and corruption, especially as the power of the Roman city-state grew and its influence extended throughout the ancient world with its economic clout and involvement in various overseas wars. Eventually the internal contradictions of the Roman government overwhelmed its democratic-constitutional tendencies and the Caesar clan, starting with Gaius Julius, set up a dictatorship that paved the way for Empire. The existence of Rome was pivotal in the development of the Western Civilization, setting a standard followed by Napoleonic France, Fascist Italy and the United States.

 

 

Wait! Don't miss-- A History of the World PART II!!

 

JG

[Basil]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

By removing the "people with bumpy foreheads/pointy ears/strange-colored skin" aliens from the Champions Universe' date=' you have basically gutted one of the classic tropes of superhero comics.[/quote']

Which is why I admitted (with some reluctance) that it might have to be left in the CU.

 

Also' date=' there have been plenty of humanoid races that don't look like "people with bumpy foreheads/pointy ears/strange-colored skin" in decent "hard" (-ish) SF books. Larry Niven's Known Space, and C.J. Cherryh's universe, to name two (although the Mri seem to be [u']too[/u] humanoid in my book).

Which is good corroboration that "Progenitors" aren't a good idea in the SU.

 

I'd like to point out that in my timeline' date=' the "Progenitors" didn't uplift humanity to sentience, they simply tinked with the genetic coade (I should have noted they did that all over), and seeded humans on other worlds.[/quote']

Ah, but that's a home-brew timeline; I was thinking in terms of a revamped official timeline.

[Basil]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Hello Basil.

 

Re: Thread Drift. It happens, and in this case some of it is intentional. The Magic argument had degenerate into pointless flaming and is-so-is-not. Better to move on to something else.

Oh, I know about thread drift. I used to spend a lot of time on Usenet, and I remember some groups where no-one ever changed the subject line. You could have a subject "Pints per hogshead?" and after a month-and-a-half, there'd be one group talking about British microcars (Morris Mini, etc.), another bunch playing I'm-more-educated-than-you one-ups-man-ship about language families, a number of people trading knock-knock jokes, and two guys over in the corner flaming away at each other over nothing at all. And $diety help the poor fool who suggested breaking things up into new threads.

 

Also, I remember the self-imporant types who'd go back to the original subject with a great big post, trying to force everyone to stop drifting. Which is why I mentioned that I was very definitely not trying to "herd cats" not play thread-drift-police.

 

I: I'd rather just say "Physics works differently in this universe" and be done with it. That said, saying "Magic" or "Psi" or "Primal" or "Quantum" is all fine, if that's what you're looking for. I admit to being biassed towards terms with less baggage like "Primal" or "Quantum", but it's all good.

I can go with that, but it raises the question "different how?" Specifically, are all the rules-of-nature different, or are there "additions" to the rules-of-nature? I think, if the fade-in/fade-out biz is to be retained that "additions" is a better explanation. That way, the Malvans keep their FTL with the human supergadgeteers' FTL can stop working.

 

II: I don't like having fade-away times at all' date=' and III would make the point moot.[/quote'] Me neither, but I thought I'd keep it at the lower levels of change, as a lot of published stuff assumes it.

 

III: Couldn't agree more' date=' and it's what I always do. Victorian Fantastique to Pulp to Supers works very well as a time line, and branches for space opera and hard sci-fi work as well. Drop the Fantasy settings off into their own worlds. As a marketting idea the one unified time line works, but I just don't like it.[/quote'] Hmmm.... I'd consider Pulps, aside from "Weird Science," is IMO more a part of SU than CU. Still,...

 

IV: Fully agreed.

 

V: Neutral on this. Destruction and then rebuilding is part of a story cycle, so I can see including the death of Detroit, but I could do without it.

My problem with it is that it feels like it was done for the publisher, not for any sense of story.

 

VI: It's a comics and scifi trope that some like and some hate. Even Asimov used a version' date=' though he did a much better job of it than Star Trek. I've done no-aliens universes, and I prefer them to a universe where there are dozens of Alien races that all happen to look like humans in funny suits, but you can't do a John Carter of Mars game without goofy aliens. So, I can take it or leave it.[/quote'] I'm sorry, but it's bad science fiction, and I would as soon HG/DOJ doesn't perpetuate it. I suppose it might as well be left in CU, but it should be removed from SU (esp. so we can have lots of non-human races, which are more interesting). If a GM wants humanoid aliens, "happenstance" is as good a reason as "Progenitors".

 

Don't forget, Niven had a "Progenitors" (the Pak), and they only "seeded" Earth and Ringworld, yet there were other humanoid races in his setting (Kzin, Slavers, ... Dang, I forget the name). So "Progenitors" aren't really needed.

 

The indistinguishable tech argument came out of an early round in the Magic debate. Some suggested that aliens should be fascinated by "impossible" Earth technology. Other posters asserted that they wouldn't be' date=' since their tehnology was built to function under magic-distorted physical laws as well, and therefore the Earth tech wouldn't apear to be impossible. Some suggested that, if that's the case, their tech should fail after the magic goes away as well. Others suggeted that it wouldn't fail, because it was "earned". Which takes us back to the question of why they aren't fascinated by Earth's impossible magic distorted technology. The argument kept going in circles after that.[/quote'] Yeah, I noticed. That discussion was what inspired me to use "primal." I wanted something that would explain how "weird tech" devices were possible, and could get results like HyperAdvancedTech, yet could be subject to fading away like superpowers, while HyperAdvancedTech didn't fade.

 

So I made superpowers depend on a source of "oomph" outside of, but compatible with, the physics of mundane energy.

[Starlord]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I can go with that' date=' but it raises the question "different how?" Specifically, are all the rules-of-nature different, or are there "additions" to the rules-of-nature? I think, [i']if the fade-in/fade-out biz is to be retained[/i] that "additions" is a better explanation. That way, the Malvans keep their FTL with the human supergadgeteers' FTL can stop working.

 

The millisecond you've decided that human beings actually have superpowers is the point where ALL the rules of nature/physics have changed. Everything else is just personal aesthetics.

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Hmmm.... I'd consider Pulps, aside from "Weird Science," is IMO more a part of SU than CU. Still,...

 

Almost every super power (invisibility, super speed, super strength, bullet proof skin, immortality, time travel, etc) can be found in the pulps or the victorian sci-fi that preceded them. Almost every Superhero trope as well (distinctive costumes, secret IDs, one man wars on crime). These show up in other forms of speculative fiction as well, but the combination in the Pulps is definitely Superheroic. The scale and range of powers demonstrated by high powered comic book superheroes is generally greater than that of pulp heroes, as is the sheer number of heroes bumping against one-another, but the connections are there.

 

 

I'm sorry, but it's bad science fiction,

 

It can be, but then again so can anything else. It's not my favorite trope, but it has been used wel both in relatively hard SF and in Science Fantasy. So, I can take it or leave it.

 

Don't forget, Niven had a "Progenitors" (the Pak),

 

Yes. And they worked well.

[BcAugust]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

There are no real variety' date=' all the powers are recent and all the origns are variations over the same theme, not a different theme. Like you can't use a secret martial arts or do an dimensional invasion themed campgain because all the powers are from the same source and the source say restrain you. I faced this kind of problem when I was running Aberrant ,the plot resources seems to shrink after some games, the chances of a real plot twist are always small.[/quote']

 

you do realize that psychers and the (I forget the term for Adventure characters) are around then? In fact, the Player's guide even had hints that you could throw them in to mess with your character's mind. *shrugs* Frankly, you could even throw the aliens in. My main problem with Abberant has more to do with the fact that it quickly became pointless for humans to compete with them or try and hurt them.

[nexus]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Hello Basil.

 

Re: Thread Drift. It happens, and in this case some of it is intentional. The Magic argument had degenerate into pointless flaming and is-so-is-not. Better to move on to something else.

 

Because my own timeline was moving so far from the CU, I moved it to its own thread.

 

I: I'd rather just say "Physics works differently in this universe" and be done with it. That said, saying "Magic" or "Psi" or "Primal" or "Quantum" is all fine, if that's what you're looking for. I admit to being biassed towards terms with less baggage like "Primal" or "Quantum", but it's all good.

.

 

Agreed.

[nexus]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

you do realize that psychers and the (I forget the term for Adventure characters) are around then? In fact' date=' the Player's guide even had hints that you could throw them in to mess with your character's mind. *shrugs* Frankly, you could even throw the aliens in. My main problem with Abberant has more to do with the fact that it quickly became pointless for humans to compete with them or try and hurt them.[/quote']

 

FYI: re Psycker were called Psions or Exomorphs, IIRC.

 

I see what he means though. Yeah you could throw Psion in, but its still essentially the same thing. And the "aliens" were really "super powered" in that setting they were sci fi aliens, well except for the glowing balls of psyhic energy, the Doyen but they were behind the scenes. I did use the aliens towards the end of my campaign but not as standing villians like the in comics.

 

I think it was more that couldn't have "real" different origins. Cyborgs, induced mutatations, highly trained but otherwise normal people, etc. That can be a limitation to single origin universe but OTOH, its what appeals to others about them.

[BcAugust]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

FYI: re Psycker were called Psions or Exomorphs, IIRC.

 

I see what he means though. Yeah you could throw Psion in, but its still essentially the same thing. And the "aliens" were really "super powered" in that setting they were sci fi aliens, well except for the glowing balls of psyhic energy, the Doyen but they were behind the scenes. I did use the aliens towards the end of my campaign but not as standing villians like the in comics.

 

I think it was more that couldn't have "real" different origins. Cyborgs, induced mutatations, highly trained but otherwise normal people, etc. That can be a limitation to single origin universe but OTOH, its what appeals to others about them.

 

Ah, I see what you're saying. Honestly, Abberant makes much more sense when you realize that WW was going for "What do you do when you're a god on earth" and less "You're a superhuman, what do you do."

 

Honestly, not that upset with anything in the CU... well, except the nastiness of some of the villians. Menton and Telios are getting very mellowed down from what's written in the book. And there's a few others that also make me look and go "Um, if my total CvK character is supposed to kill, that would be a good reason..." Note, not Black Paladin or some of the other supernatural baddies, but the supervillians.

[Peregrine]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Ah, yes, Teleios. ChuckG and I have a retcon of Teleios that, well... let's just say that the character writeup for Teleios in Champions Universe represents what is publicly known about Teleios. The truth is ... different.

 

Of course, in this retcon, Destroyer died at Detroit - body recovered and ID'd, etc. (GMs/retconners' ruling - he's well and truly dead, never coming back.) Yes, both of these items are relevant to one another. No, Teleios is not a new ID for Destroyer (see parenthesis above).

 

Clue: Hero 4th Creatures of the Night.

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Ah, I see what you're saying. Honestly, Abberant makes much more sense when you realize that WW was going for "What do you do when you're a god on earth" and less "You're a superhuman, what do you do."

 

So "What do you do when you are a pathetic shadow of our Uber-Cool NPCs, and the adventures all run on tracks" was not the goal?

 

Well that's a surprise.

 

(And I say that as someone who liked a lot about Aeon and Abberant)

[nexus]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

So "What do you do when you are a pathetic shadow of our Uber-Cool NPCs, and the adventures all run on tracks" was not the goal?

 

Well that's a surprise.

 

(And I say that as someone who liked a lot about Aeon and Abberant)

 

 

You are SO repped when I can do it again

[Peregrine]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

So "What do you do when you are a pathetic shadow of our Uber-Cool NPCs, and the adventures all run on tracks" was not the goal?

 

Well that's a surprise.

 

(And I say that as someone who liked a lot about Aeon and Abberant)

That's not a goal for WW, that's Standard Game Design.

 

(Inherited from FASA, no less.)

[Basil]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Almost every super power (invisibility, super speed, super strength, bullet proof skin, immortality, time travel, etc) can be found in the pulps or the victorian sci-fi that preceded them. Almost every Superhero trope as well (distinctive costumes, secret IDs, one man wars on crime). These show up in other forms of speculative fiction as well, but the combination in the Pulps is definitely Superheroic. The scale and range of powers demonstrated by high powered comic book superheroes is generally greater than that of pulp heroes, as is the sheer number of heroes bumping against one-another, but the connections are there.

{snip}

OK, I guess we're just looking at the Pulps from different angles. I'm thinking of it in terms of "tough, heroic guys going up against trouble with brains and fists/guns, oh and there's also some really weird tech comes up now and then". AFAICT, you're looking at it as "comic-book-like characters and gadgeteers, in lower power levels than the comic books did". Both POVs are perfectly valid, it's just that each would handle a re-written CU metasetting/timeline differently.

 

Indeed, if Pulp Hero is put in the (rewritten) CU, it makes the whole "what about Weird Science?" question moot. So, considering that, I'll bow to your POV, and consider Pulp to be early Supers.

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

OK, I guess we're just looking at the Pulps from different angles. I'm thinking of it in terms of "tough, heroic guys going up against trouble with brains and fists/guns, oh and there's also some really weird tech comes up now and then". AFAICT, you're looking at it as "comic-book-like characters and gadgeteers, in lower power levels than the comic books did". Both POVs are perfectly valid, it's just that each would handle a re-written CU metasetting/timeline differently.

 

Indeed, if Pulp Hero is put in the (rewritten) CU, it makes the whole "what about Weird Science?" question moot. So, considering that, I'll bow to your POV, and consider Pulp to be early Supers.

 

Well, I don't ask anyone to bow to my point of view, and "tough, heroic guys" is valid. However, I've read a lot of pulps, and I know a Super when I see one.

 

Weird Science wan't the half of it.

[McCoy]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Well' date=' I don't ask anyone to bow to my point of view, and "tough, heroic guys" is valid. However, I've read a lot of pulps, and I know a Super when I see one. [/quote']

Clark Savage Jr was the literary predecessor of both Batman and Superman, and compared to characters like the Shadow he was one of the more normal ones.

 

I wouldn't say the pulp characters were low powered, they just spent the points on skills, contacts and talents rather than powers.

 

Is there a single pulp character without perfect pitch? Or double jointed? Or lip reading? Or most especally, Eidetic Memory?

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Is there a single pulp character without perfect pitch? Or double jointed? Or lip reading? Or most especally' date=' Eidetic Memory?[/quote']

 

Yup. The Spider would keep coming at you despite his multiple gaping bullet wounds, and still get to the black tie party that night, whereas Hugo Danner (from Gladiator, published in 1930) would just bounce the bullets (though he was a one novel character rather than part of a series). Invisibility, hypnosis, exotic martial arts, astral projection, immortality, telepathy, super strength (look at John Carter alone), one strange power after another showed up in the Pulps.

 

The point issue is an interesting one. From a Hero point of view, I don't think you could do a really good port of Clark Savage Jr. on less than 800 points, making him a Galactic Champions class PC.

[Chimpira]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Clark Savage Jr was the literary predecessor of both Batman and Superman, and compared to characters like the Shadow he was one of the more normal ones.

 

I wouldn't say the pulp characters were low powered, they just spent the points on skills, contacts and talents rather than powers.

 

Is there a single pulp character without perfect pitch? Or double jointed? Or lip reading? Or most especally, Eidetic Memory?

 

Actually, true Pulp came in all shapes and sizes. From wartime stories to spicy love stories. What you are talking about is just part of the whole.

 

(Trust me. It can be a pain talking to people about that part as well. I pitched a cartoon idea modeled as an homage to characters like, The Shadow and Doc Savage. After many meetings with executives in charge of putting projects together, we had to speak to their boss for the final ok. His reply was "What's Pulp?". It went downhill from there.)

[McCoy]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Yup. The Spider would keep coming at you despite his multiple gaping bullet wounds, and still get to the black tie party that night, whereas Hugo Danner (from Gladiator, published in 1930) would just bounce the bullets (though he was a one novel character rather than part of a series). Invisibility, hypnosis, exotic martial arts, astral projection, immortality, telepathy, super strength (look at John Carter alone), one strange power after another showed up in the Pulps.

 

The point issue is an interesting one. From a Hero point of view, I don't think you could do a really good port of Clark Savage Jr. on less than 800 points, making him a Galactic Champions class PC.

You could spend 800 points on followers, vehicles, and bases. Between the Fortress of Solitude, the Crime College, the Valley of the Vanished, his mid-town pied a terre atop the Empire State Building, all with their attendant staff --