War HERO

[i3ullseye]

Back when Bruce was still LE, I wrote in a suggestion for a series of books that I wanted to write. The line would be the War HERO line, and cover major conflicts in the modern era... Civil War HERO, WWI HERO, WWII HERO, Vietnam HERO, etc.....

 

I see it is as a huge gaping hole in the HERO rules at this point, and one that would have a huge fan base. How many people play minitures battles and recreations right now? and HERO is just detailed enough to really offer a great foundation for vehicular battles and small arms combat, while still being playable. I have always found it to be a nice system to balance the munchkin aspect of miniature battles and the smooth flow of roleplay.

 

But the line was going through a transitional phase I was told... and we all know how that turned out. In the end all is great for the game now. But will we ever see a War HERO line? Who knows.

 

I have also been told that with the Vehicle guide, and ana Arms and Weapon guide, you really don't need war books. What? This coudln't be farther from the truth. There is so much backstory and detail to base games on in each of these eras. Not to mention, having a list of just what weapons and vehicles are available, and when, is really helpful also. And how about packages for the different services and nations special forces and such?

 

Now, all that being said, I no longer have time to try to write 2 or 3 hours a day on something of this sort. But for my own uses, I AM going to be doing quite a bit of work with regards to World War I for my upcoming campaign. So this beings up 2 questions...

 

1) Since it doesn't look like I will ever be able to work on any official book of this nature, and there doesn't seem to be a spot in the line to produce one, who would be interested in anything of this sort? Who wants to see a WWI HERO Resource?

 

2) I was also thinking of posting lists of items, and then thier stats in HERO, in a thread here. Like one for small arms, one for rifles, one for machine guns, etc.... Who would be interested in helping with such an effort?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: War HERO

 

Count me as interested. Don't know how much I'll be up to contributing, although I did do some work along these lines before. I'll chime in where appropriate, I guess.

[James Gillen]

Re: War HERO

 

The closest thing to that in the current catalog is Alien Wars, which is basically a 'Starship Troopers' like campaign setting. But yeah, they need something that could incorporate tactical rules. If we modified the vehicle rules enough (so that starships weren't completely invulnerable) HERO would make an excellent substitute for Star Fleet Battles, AND you could make characters with it.

 

JG

[Lucius]

War HERO

 

I'm told Fantasy Hero has the Mass Combat rules. (for some reason.)

 

How workable are they for modern units and battles?

 

LA

p

[Captain Obvious]

Re: War HERO

 

The rules as printed in FH are a good framework to build on, but as-is, they don't support Explosions or Area Effects, or a few other types of attacks common to the modern day. It's a fairly easy fix, though.

[Curufea]

Re: War HERO

 

I'm told Fantasy Hero has the Mass Combat rules. (for some reason.)

Possibly because large army battles are a common genre occurance in fantasy - but not in superhero, science fiction or pulp. So I'd say they're there because of um, logic?

 

Be that as it may - I think there would have to be a great deal of scaling down. The other genres are heroic, but for war - you want everyone lower powered than that. Having minimum points, low characteristic maxima and starting with 8 in stats.

 

I think that would be a good start - you could offer more heroic versions as alternatives (say, Pulp War etc) which would be more like the other genre books.

[i3ullseye]

Re: War HERO

 

Well, if the players are special forces units, Heroic works just fine. I know competent normals often have only 50 points, but actually sit back and figure out what skills many of us have accumulated over the years.

 

For most war games i am going to target the characters at 50 base and 50 disads... that feels about right for me.

 

And during the rigors of battle, and after basic training and active marching all through MOS/Tech schools... base 10 stats are about right. Most people will have a few points in Str and Con at that point also, but not neccessarily Dex.

[Toadmaster]

Re: War HERO

 

Well its not like military RPG's are a new idea, I have copies of Merc, Recon (RPG inc & Paladium versions), Behind Enemy Lines (FASA & The Companions versions), Twilight 2000 (v1.0, v2.0 & v2.2), Delta Force, GURPS Spec Ops & all the WW2 stuff as well as some I probably forget so why not WarHERO? I'd buy it although the vehicle rules and heavy weapons would require some pretty serious tinkering in my opinion.

 

I am interested in what you do for WW1, I know a bit about that period but I've spent much more time learning about the interwar period and WW2. WW1 does offer alot though, particularly if you allow for a little more individual action than a real Yank, Jerry or Tommie would have had, that would be true for most periods but WW1 in particular since its not alot of fun playing that "over the top boys" walking across an artillery pounded machinegun raked open field full of barbed wire and land mines, time to make up character # 37 stuff.

 

Dark Champions did include a fair bit that would be useful for a military game and is worth having for that purpose but DC has fallen into the place I was afraid it would despite the assurances "realistic" gamers wouldn't be forgotten, its primarily low power supers from what I've seen on the boards and in product. I'm not suprised that DOJ has shown little interest in military gaming based on the threads prior to DCs release.

 

I agree with you completely that there is alot more to a military game than books full of guns.

 

I posted some stuff I'd been working on in another thread if you are interested.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32726

[Killer Shrike]

Re: War HERO

 

If its good and looks coherent then Ill host it for you.

[The Monster]

Re: War HERO

 

Looking at it as an RPG rather than a miniatures game...

 

I'd really like to see a coherent role-playing sourcebook series a la "War HERO," especially if it's up to the standards set so far by Star Hero and Pulp Hero. It is true that some eras (especially WW2!) have been heavily covered by other games, so it might be most productive/useful to focus on other events, such as Vietnam, American Civil War, WW1, and the like.

 

Personally, I'd suggest taking a tip from the way Pulp Hero is set up: it's what, a third or more through the book before stats are even mentioned? Package deals and specific weapons/vehicles, plus a sample of appropriate special powers (if any) and some characters, both stock and specials, and it's good. Mostly I think you want a good general overview of the event, with enough specific info to get hooks and consistency.

 

BTW, there was lots of stuff going on in WWI besides the French trenches. Theaters in Africa (including an epic flight by a zeppelin!) and the Middle East come to mind as fluid settings with some fine room for small-unit activity to play a significant role. Navy or air groups also might be playable to good effect.

 

As far as a miniatures game, I think Hero would work quite well on an individual scale. I've played minis at conventions, so I'm no expert, but Hero is certainly no more complex than some of the regular mini rules I've sampled. The complexity really comes in character/weapon/vehicle design rather than execution, and for a typical minis game, all that would be pregenerated.

(Hmmm...may have to try this at a local con and see what happens... )

For large-scale action, there are a whole range of things that have to be accounted for in a different way than for an RPG or single-man scale, that to take Hero to that level in any consistent and playable way would be way beyond me: more power to those who would try! (And I'd be willing to playtest!)

[i3ullseye]

Re: War HERO

 

I don't think I would ever want to go squad based with it, though the mass battle rules form FH would certainly cover it. Purists woudl want to know percentage of penetration, and segmented armor stats and such. But really, there are a bazillion historically accurrate games for that. Thos eivolve moving models and making rolls... I want people to play characters in my games, and the actual mechanics of the full scale battle are going to be secondary.

 

Hehe, it is Role play, not Roll play with me....

[Toadmaster]

Re: War HERO

 

BTW' date=' there was lots of stuff going on in WWI besides the French trenches. Theaters in Africa (including an epic flight by a zeppelin!) and the Middle East come to mind as fluid settings with some fine room for small-unit activity to play a significant role. Navy or air groups also might be playable to good effect. [/quote']

 

 

You're right, there was quite a bit more than the trenches, thats just the first thing that comes to my mind. Rommel (of WW2 fame) had some action leading storm troops on raids against Italy (IIRC) late in the war, these were small groups that infiltrated behind the enemy trenches to cause all sorts of havoc. Several years ago I read a book about the Germans in Africa called On to Kilaminjaro, the war in Africa was for the most part small unit actions and espionage, the Movie the African Queen was based on real events in Africa during WW1. There is also another book I plan to eventually get called the Great War in Africa. When I think of WW1 I think of Anzacs, Alls Quiet on the Western Front, The Blue Max and Gallipolli, but you are correct there is alot of potential for RP without stretching real events too far.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: War HERO

 

definately count me in as interested in working on at least the vehicles and equipment sections

[Curufea]

Re: War HERO

 

If it helps, there's quite a few resources here (it lept to my mind as it is a short walk from my work)-

The Australian War Memorial

http://www.awm.gov.au/

[i3ullseye]

Re: War HERO

 

yeah, good stuff. I think first I am going to just gather a list of the most common equipment... be it pistol, rifle, achine gun, tank, etc.... and start with the raw conversions on those. the profession packages will come a bit later I think as i dig a bit deeper. So far this is one of the best resources I have found.

 

WW I Resources

 

For the most part, unless there is a blaring reason it should be differrent, i am going to find a weapon with the same caliber and statistics as the weapons of WW I and just rename them. There are tons of good weapon write-ups out there already. And I will do the same for any vehicles I can find a similar write up for.

 

As I read the history trhough, a few items will need to be written up on their own for unique properties or challenges they had historically. Like certain weapons that misfired a bit too much, or weapons with a longer than expected range.

[Toadmaster]

Re: War HERO

 

For the most part, unless there is a blaring reason it should be differrent, i am going to find a weapon with the same caliber and statistics as the weapons of WW I and just rename them. There are tons of good weapon write-ups out there already. And I will do the same for any vehicles I can find a similar write up for.

 

As I read the history trhough, a few items will need to be written up on their own for unique properties or challenges they had historically. Like certain weapons that misfired a bit too much, or weapons with a longer than expected range.

 

 

WW1 was basically modern weapons so you are right, many could just be renamed from one in the HERO book with minor modifications such as magazine size etc. Weapons like the Chauchat definately deserve some disads, actually works 11-, burnout etc.

[Lucius]

Re: War HERO

 

The rules as printed in FH are a good framework to build on' date=' but as-is, they don't support Explosions or Area Effects, or a few other types of attacks common to the modern day. It's a fairly easy fix, though.[/quote']

 

Hm.....in Fantasy Hero, where you can reasonably expect powerful spellcasters, fire breathing dragons, etc, they didn't include Explosions and Area Effects in the mass combat rules? Oh well.

 

LA

p

[James Gillen]

Re: War HERO

 

Hm.....in Fantasy Hero, where you can reasonably expect powerful spellcasters, fire breathing dragons, etc, they didn't include Explosions and Area Effects in the mass combat rules? Oh well.

 

LA

p

 

To say nothing of lobbed grenade weapons, hot sand/oil pots, etc.

 

JG

[G_K_Zhukov]

Re: War HERO

 

IMHO a "Military HERO" or "War HERO" genre book is a very cool idea. It should be a generic tome - hopefully followed by several setting books later on. This genre book could examine military life, the rise of armies, technologies used throughout history, expand the FH mass combat system to cover other periods, etc.

 

Regarding setting books, "WWII HERO" would be an instant success - it would be the surest bet. And judging from other hobbies, a "Modern War HERO" or even a "Roman/Crusader/Napoleonic HERO" would probably be very welcome also.

 

Also, the mere existance of the genre book would help those who try to set up a military RPG campaign in other alternate periods not so popular amongst roleplayers. So GMs anxious to set up a... let's say "Italian Wars HERO" campaign in the early 16th C would have something where to start from!

[Toadmaster]

Re: War HERO

 

I've been reading The Great War in Africa, it would make a great setting for a WW1 based game, lots of wierd small unit actions years before their time in the civilized world. Raids on railroads, missions to carry gunboats overland to slip them into a land locked lake, attacks from rhinos, hippos, lions and killer bees, find the cruiser in the delta and direct naval fire onto it etc. Highly recommended for anyone that wants a low technology Spec ops environment.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393305643/qid=1135558820/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5119878-8806244?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

 

 

Osprey also has several books covering the various nations armies from 1914-18 that could be used for more info.

[Mentor]

Re: War HERO

 

Our Pulp Hero campaign is set in 1905 and the advnturers include military and former military characters, so a WW1 supplement or database would interest me, although I would find a War Hero supplement with examples from various periods of military action a must have.

[Old Man]

Re: War HERO

 

The rules as printed in FH are a good framework to build on' date=' but as-is, they don't support Explosions or Area Effects, or a few other types of attacks common to the modern day. It's a fairly easy fix, though.[/quote']

 

Oddlly enough, the original mass combat rules out of the 4th ed. FH Companion I did support AE/Explosion attacks. In essence AE negates, or partially negates, the extra BODY that the unit derives from its numbers.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: War HERO

 

Oddlly enough' date=' the original mass combat rules out of the 4th ed. FH Companion I did support AE/Explosion attacks. In essence AE negates, or partially negates, the extra BODY that the unit derives from its numbers.[/quote']

 

Yup. The same mechanic can be used to apply the effects of things like Increased STUN Multiplier, too, if you decide that that is significant enough to account for in the larger scale.

 

I keep intending to look around for my old notes and post some of the nice bits here, but I keep forgetting. And right now, I have to put away some clothes and go to bed, so I'm sure I'll forget again.

[Old Man]

Re: War HERO

 

I have to say that I'm less than thrilled with the mass combat rules in either version of FH. Treating mass combat in almost the exact same way as regular combat--using the same OCV, weapon damage, etc.--just doesn't do it for me. There needs to be a better way to account for formations, unit tactics, morale, vehicles, and command and control. One of these days I'll take my own stab at it, in my copious spare time.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: War HERO

 

Just my opinion, but....

 

For a War HERO supplement, I'd rather see a game about heroism in war, why we fight, people giving their all to fight a common enemy, a regular guy who feels that giving his life to stop a terrible foe means he gets the better deal, and playing out all of this stuff with the Hero System.... than another miniatures or mass combat system.

 

That might be just me, though.