Who's the most evil villain in CU?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Joker better watch his ***! Little Johnny Blake is probably grew up to be a leather clad Iron age vigilante

[Chuckg]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Only in his level of personal power as far as we know.

 

No, Mystic World also made it plain that Takofanes is running on a significant level of mental impairment, IIRC. Being buried un-alive for 70,000 years has kinda ossified the brain. Lord Liaden had the details.

 

Still, I don't consider that to excuse him because, really, he'd still be the one of most evil villains in CU even if he'd frickin' died in that tomb and never became Takofanes at all.

[Susano]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Joker better watch his ***! Little Johnny Blake is probably grew up to be a leather clad Iron age vigilante

 

Secret origins of Kingdom Come's Magog?

[Springald Jack]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Oh yes -- for my money, the most evil is Luther Black, for the reasons others have stated.

 

And on a side note, does anyone here wodner just who if any of the CU villains would be believers in/students of Nietzchean morality? I really do see Destroyer as having a first-edition copy of Thus Spake Zarathustra by his bedside, even if Menton is much closer to the ideal of the master morality versus the herd morality.

 

I think you're painting Neitzche with a blacker brush than he deserves here.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

I think you're painting Neitzche with a blacker brush than he deserves here.

 

Well, maybe. I'm mostly running on what I've read about and concerning his work in a few essays. Though it is my understandingthat he's interpreted that way, even if it wasn't what he originally meant.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Sorry' date=' but this just amounts to the writer trying to be cute. Darkseid's tale [i']seems[/i] to be a more 'personal' one, therefore garnering more empathy from the reader. Yet, in the end, Eclipso ruined countless lives and Darkseid ruined one.

 

Eclipso wins.

 

Really?

 

Desaad went on to do a lot of harm (I believe - all I know about him is he is/was one of his minions). I think the point was that infection is much, much crueller than simple devastation... given time, a corrupted innocent can do more harm.

[Starlord]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Really?

 

Desaad went on to do a lot of harm (I believe - all I know about him is he is/was one of his minions). I think the point was that infection is much, much crueller than simple devastation... given time, a corrupted innocent can do more harm.

 

- Unless he's mind-controlled, Desaad is still responsible for his actions when working on his own time...not Darkseid.

 

- I got the point...it just doesn't match up. In comparison, the infection is small and the devastation was most certainly not simple.

 

- Again, I call standard-writer-trick-of-redirecting-reader-empathy. Millions and millions drowned (a pretty awful way to die IMO) at once vs. the perversion of one essentially secondary character. Yes, that character has done harm, yet probably 75% or more of the harm he's done has been on the orders of Darkseid who would have found a way to cause said harm with or without Desaad.

[Chimpira]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

- Unless he's mind-controlled, Desaad is still responsible for his actions when working on his own time...not Darkseid.

 

- I got the point...it just doesn't match up. In comparison, the infection is small and the devastation was most certainly not simple.

 

- Again, I call standard-writer-trick-of-redirecting-reader-empathy. Millions and millions drowned (a pretty awful way to die IMO) at once vs. the perversion of one essentially secondary character. Yes, that character has done harm, yet probably 75% or more of the harm he's done has been on the orders of Darkseid who would have found a way to cause said harm with or without Desaad.

 

Now I never had read the story myself, however instead of a cute trick by the writer to personalize the story, I think it might have a different function.

 

Now this is just what was mentioned here filtering through my brain, but another way to look at it is that Eclipso was proud of the death and wanton destruction he caused. So, of course, he must be the greatest evil because of all the harm that he did. A true weapon of destruction.

 

Darkseid told him the story of Desaad. It was not tell him that it is far more evil to corrupt one soul, but instead to show him that he easily crafted a being of similiar motivation as Eclipso.

 

Eclipso was a weapon but Darkseid was the weaponmaker.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

After considering the various arguments presented here, I have to finally come down for Luther Black as most evil character in the Champions Universe. Reviewing his Inverted Trinity reminded me that Black has personally debased and literally damned the immortal souls of completely innocent individuals. When you combine that with the results of his master plan, and that he has chosen to sacrifice all of humanity, as well as anything human left in himself, to achieve it, he seems to cover all the bases of evil from the most intimate to the most epic.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Really?

 

Desaad went on to do a lot of harm (I believe - all I know about him is he is/was one of his minions). I think the point was that infection is much, much crueller than simple devastation... given time, a corrupted innocent can do more harm.

 

It wasn't a coincidence that Jack Kirby named this character so similarly to the Marquis de Sade. Desaad is not only Darkseid's chief minion and inventive genius, but also one of the most depraved beings on Apokolips, deriving profound pleasure from the suffering of others and actively promoting that suffering. (And "most depraved" on Apokolips is saying something.)

[Trencher]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

I read Tacofaen's story again and must say that even though he has killed more people than Dr Destroyer he has had a long time to do it. Give the Doctor enough time and he will be up there in numbers with him, unless the heroes stop him off course.

But maybe it is me who just dismiss Takophanes as "fantasy monster: Lich" (I am half expecting Stronghammer the dwarf to come and crush his skull).

[Chuckg]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

When you remember that the Turakian Age ended because Kal-Turak the Ravager's final battle vs. the alliance of, oh, all the free peoples of the world combined, destroyed the manasphere...

 

... I think "ended the first age of human civilization" is one heckuva Evil Resume Booster, don't you?

 

Still, Luther Black wins.

[Susano]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

When you remember that the Turakian Age ended because Kal-Turak the Ravager's final battle vs. the alliance of, oh, all the free peoples of the world combined, destroyed the manasphere...

 

... I think "ended the first age of human civilization" is one heckuva Evil Resume Booster, don't you?

 

Still, Luther Black wins.

 

Sure, he wants to end human existance!

[megaplayboy]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Well, eventually, a thousand years in the future, Mechanon wipes out a whole planet of "organics", creates a big giant head, and threatens the whole galaxy.

So, I guess he's probably up there.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

But that comes back to the whole "born/created evil" vs. "chooses to be evil" distinction. The point was raised earlier in the thread that Mechanon does what it does because it was programmed that way. That seems to be the main factor which prompts people to exclude the Dragon and the Kings of Edom as viable choices; their nature is fundamentally "evil," so they don't really choose it.

[Gary]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

There was a Ravenloft villainess who has to be near the top of the list for any RPG. She went around cutting the heads off of beautiful young women and attaching them to her neck. The trouble was that the nature of her curse meant that her new 'heads' aged one year for every day that they were attached to her neck. She was a very vain woman, and any head she attached had to be very attractive. When a head aged to the point where it stopped being attractive, she would toss it into her basement and go hunting for another one. Her basement was full of the heads of once beautiful young innocent girls suffering in eternal torment. All of her victims are still alive and aware of their situation after she's done with them.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

There was a Ravenloft villainess who has to be near the top of the list for any RPG. She went around cutting the heads off of beautiful young women and attaching them to her neck. The trouble was that the nature of her curse meant that her new 'heads' aged one year for every day that they were attached to her neck. She was a very vain woman' date=' and any head she attached had to be very attractive. When a head aged to the point where it stopped being attractive, she would toss it into her basement and go hunting for another one. Her basement was full of the heads of once beautiful young innocent girls suffering in eternal torment. All of her victims are still alive and aware of their situation after she's done with them.[/quote']

Now, who is more evil: the villainess here...or the twisted bastard that came up with that? I mean holy crap, that's warped! And evil!!

 

 

 

So, umm, where would I find a copy of the source material...?

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Now' date=' who is more evil: the villainess here...[i']or the twisted bastard that came up with that?[/i] I mean holy crap, that's warped! And evil!!

 

 

 

So, umm, where would I find a copy of the source material...?

 

Really, it's just a more twisted version of that character from the Oz novels...

 

...did you get that or not? Can't tell.

[Checkmate]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

I think to really determine who is most evil, you have to look at motivation. Why are the killing all these people, rather than how many people they can kill.

 

Dr. Destroyer wants to rule the world. Killing people is just a means to an end. He may or may not enjoy killing people, he just does it to accomplish his goal. I think this is less evil than say:

 

Blowtorch kills people becuase he likes to watch people die, that's pretty evil if you ask me.

 

Menton is like a woman, he doesn't kill you he destroys (while keeping alive) the people closest to you just because you insult him, that's pretty evil too.

[Susano]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

I think to really determine who is most evil, you have to look at motivation. Why are the killing all these people, rather than how many people they can kill.

 

Dr. Destroyer wants to rule the world. Killing people is just a means to an end. He may or may not enjoy killing people, he just does it to accomplish his goal. I think this is less evil than say:

 

Blowtorch kills people becuase he likes to watch people die, that's pretty evil if you ask me.

 

Menton is like a woman, he doesn't kill you he destroys (while keeping alive) the people closest to you just because you insult him, that's pretty evil too.

 

And Luther Black wants to kill all of humanity simply to make himself a god. In fact, he wants to destroy reality just to improve his station in life (so to speak), that's pretty evil as well. As least Destroyer is thinking "the end justifies the means" even if his means and end aren't what most people want to see come about.

[Checkmate]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

And Luther Black wants to kill all of humanity simply to make himself a god. In fact' date=' he wants to destroy reality just to improve his station in life (so to speak), that's pretty evil as well. As least Destroyer is thinking "the end justifies the means" even if his means and end aren't what most people want to see come about.[/quote']

Yeah but Luther Black is doing it for power. If there was a way to get more power without killing he would do it. I think this makes him less evil than Blowtorch who kills because he likes to watch people die. The only thing he gets out of is pleasure. There is no grand scheme to power, or to make himself better, just simple pleasure.

[Checkmate]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

P.S. (because the edit thingy isn't working for me) What sounds worse to you?

 

Reproter: You just killed 6 billion people, why'd you do it?

Black: Ultimate power.

 

Or..

 

Reporter: You just killed 600 people, why'd you do?

Blowtorch: Dang that was fun!

[Susano]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

P.S. (because the edit thingy isn't working for me) What sounds worse to you?

 

Reproter: You just killed 6 billion people, why'd you do it?

Black: Ultimate power.

 

Or..

 

Reporter: You just killed 600 people, why'd you do?

Blowtorch: Dang that was fun!

 

Well, when you get right down to it, they both are equally bad. Why? Because both show the same total disregard for human life. Black sees all other people as sacrificial lambs to be slaughtered to appease the Elder Gods (err... Kings of Edom), while Blowtorch sees people as potential playthings. Neither really cares one whit about their victim's fate, just as long as they get what they want (Black - power, Blowtorch - jollies).

 

Oh, and to make it "worse," one can argue that Black knows exactly what he is doing, while Blowtorch has lost all sense of right & wrong and good & evil.

[BcAugust]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

Menton is like a woman' date=' he doesn't kill you he destroys (while keeping alive) the people closest to you just because you insult him, that's pretty evil too.[/quote']

 

*blinks* Um, wow. I take it you've had bad dealings with females in the past?

 

My vote... hmmm Luthor Black, again. Not so much for wanting to destroy all humanity for raising himself up, but also how he goes about it. He doesn't just destroy lives, but souls even worse then eternal damnation.

[Checkmate]

Re: Who's the most evil villain in CU?

 

*blinks* Um' date=' wow. I take it you've had bad dealings with females in the past?[/quote']

LOL No not really (well no more than the next guy). There is just a basic difference in the way men and women handle confilct.

 

When two men get into a conflict, the are direct and immediate. One punches the other and vice versa. After they've fought it out, the confilct has been resovled or forgotten and they can go get a beer together and be best friends.

 

When two women get into a confilct it is more subtle. One woman will destory the others life. It may takes weeks, months, or even years but they are willing to wait.