Homages you would like to see officially

[megaplayboy]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

The Celestials, and different editors have had (and mandated into being) vastly different ideas where they belong on the power scale over the years, so that there literally is no one correct answer that doesn't blatantly contradict about three other answers -- all of which are in continuity.

 

IOW, you file the Celestials under 'damned if I know, 'cause Marvel sure don't.'

Well, they're pretty clearly >Odin and

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

PS: Somebody remind who those 1000' tall cosmic fellas are! It's right on the tip of my tongue' date=' darnit. Thought they were right up there with Eternity and Death.[/quote']

 

Those would be the Celestials, out of Jack Kirby's Eternals series. It's hard to tell where they would rank next to the likes of Galactus on the power scale since they've never directly confronted a foe of that class. Compared to any Earthly superhero, though, their power is clearly immeasurable.

 

As far as homages go, I'm still hoping that Vanguard will be brought back somehow to the CU. I really miss having a good Superman analog in this world, and past references imply that he was it. (Kind of odd that I feel this way, since I don't particularly like Superman; but he fills a valuable role.)

[megaplayboy]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I'd like to see a JLA/Avengers homage in the Silver Age Champions sourcebook--since it's a period sourcebook rather than continuity CU, there'd be fewer gripes about overshadowing the PCs, and it'd be neat to see how such a team was written up in the CU.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Well' date=' I like Grond a lot, but he just doesn't have quite enough raw oomph to fit the niche of "Hulk Smash!". Even the Ultimate Brick update only gets him in the ballpark IMHO. A little defensive boost would handle most of it.[/quote']

 

As I'm using Galactic Champions as fodder for my modern-day campaign, rather than running it as a future era, I pretty much grafted the character sheet for Fracas from GC onto Ultimate Brick Grond, along with some elements from Classic Enemies Grond and Champions: New Millennium Grond, plus a few custom tweaks. Fracas and Grond are the mindless rampaging monsters of their respective eras, and their writeups are similar in a number of ways, but Fracas was a lot more powerful.

 

 

I think I'd like to see some of the alien races move up a little bit. By that I mean that there doesn't seem to be one overweening race a la the Kree or Skrull in Marvel or the vast panoply of DC's GL Corps. Sure we have the Malvans, but let's see some more of them including some standard troopers so we can run a nice little invasion. Those are practically required by the genre after all.

 

Along those lines, I'd like more details about the Hzeel, since they're supposed to be the alien civilization with the most immediate designs on our world. By the Terran Empire era they're reduced to being an interstellar Mafia, but I haven't heard enough about what happened in between.

 

OTOH the Star*Guard have been quite satisfactory to me as analogs to the Green Lantern Corps, particularly at the power level displayed in Galactic Champions. Between GC and the S*G articles in Digital Hero, I have enough to run them with. More would always be welcome, though.

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

As far as homages go' date=' I'm still hoping that Vanguard will be brought back somehow to the CU. I really miss having a good Superman analog in this world, and past references imply that he was it. (Kind of odd that I feel this way, since I don't particularly like Superman; but he fills a valuable role.)[/quote']

 

In the campaign I am soon to be starting, I had Vanguard survive the Battle of Detroit -- and then be lost helping to fight off the Dimensional Invasion of 1998. (Which I significantly changed from the canon version... ok, if anybody's ever seen the Justice League animated episode 'Starcrossed', it looked a *lot* like that. Only with less hawk wings and more power armor.)

 

But Vanguard's still alive out there! We're... pretty sure... ok, the last thing the heroes of Earth remember is him and the rest of the Sentinels holding the rearguard against an entire army of V'Han's forces as the dimensional rift closed forever with them still on the wrong side, but... nobody /saw/ them die...

[Hermit]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

 

But Vanguard's still alive out there! We're... pretty sure... ok, the last thing the heroes of Earth remember is him and the rest of the Sentinels holding the rearguard against an entire army of V'Han's forces as the dimensional rift closed forever, but... nobody /saw/ them die...

 

"No one could have survived THAT!"

 

There, now by ancient comic book law, he's sure to return

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

If anybody cares, the relevant bits of my campaign timeline:

 

(Yes, I also killed off Menton. *shrugs* I can't /use/ him, he's too powerful for my PCs. And I don't /like/ him, he's utterly vile and /petty/, and if I need an ubervillain mentalist, I'll use... *ahem* spoiler. So, Menton delenda est.)

 

April 1998: The Dimensional Invasion begins. An enormous dimensional rip opens up in the fabric of space/time in cislunar space, and a vast alien battlefleet pours out of it. Although the superheroes and governments of Earth immediately combine arms against the threat, this invasion proves notably more formidable than the Hzeel incursion. V'Han's forces are simply too numerous, too well-armed, and in addition seem to have experience in dealing with metahuman threats. Over the course of the next several weeks, V'han's battlecruisers fill the skies of Earth, and captured metahumans languish in containment facilities. The world's armed forces are stood down as they are futilely overmatched by the ultra-tech invaders. Fortunately for Earth, the Dimensional Empire also seem to be unusually restrained for alien conquerors. There are no purges, orbital bombardments, or atrocities of any kind. The image of the blue-skinned Majestrix V'Han is broadcast to every TV receiver in the world, announcing that Earth will now lie under her 'benevolent and enlightened rule'. The UN begins stalling for time with lengthy negotiations about the terms of vassalage, while a resistance is quietly organized. Earth's supervillain community also stands down, after the vastly powerful Menton was killed by a precision-targeted orbital plasma lance after he single-handedly defeated a force of Dimensional Legionnaires.

 

May 1998: Several of the last remaining superheroes successfully free more of their compatriots, including Vanguard, from captivity. Meanwhile, special operations forces have successfully captured enough of the Dimensional Empire's technology to allow some of Earth's greatest super-scientists to begin reverse-engineering its computer language. It is discovered that the Dimensional Empire is dependent upon a network of dimensional 'nexus generators' to move such large masses between alternate dimensions. If the nearest nexus generator to Earth can be disabled, V'Han's forces will be cut off, or forced to withdraw before they are trapped here. In late May, Vanguard and a hand-picked team of superheroes successfully hijack an Imperial courier ship and use its D-drive to return to the D-Nexus by which the Empire jumped to Earth's space. The task of successfully infiltrating a nexus control center, on one of the Empire's core worlds, taxes the heroes to the utmost. An ultra-sophisticated cascading computer virus is successfully introduced into the Imperial network, and key elements of the nexus generators rigged for timed demolition. V'Han's forces in the Earth dimension receive an alert broadcast that they have one hour to mobilize and return through the rift before it closes forever. The broadcast, of course, alerts the Empire that one of its key nexus facilities has been compromised, and what will be forever remembered as the Siege begins. For the next 60 minutes, the heroes of Earth have to hold out in the nexus command center vs. a literal army of Imperial troops, and towards the end, arriving elements of V'han's own metahuman corps, the Imperial Guard. The heroes successfully hold and fall back through the rift just before it closes forever, but the Sentinels, including Vanguard, stay to hold the rearguard... and are trapped on the other side when the rift closes one tragic minute too early. The world mourns their loss. Sentinel Island, their HQ in New York harbor, is converted into a memorial and museum.

 

Late 1998: James Harmon IV, secretly Defender, forms the Champions. The few stragglers of the Dimensional Empire that could not return through the rift in time are resettled on a colony planet elsewhere in the Milky Way by the Mandaarians, who showed up shortly after the Dimensional Invasion ended. The Mandaarians also request/demand that the left-behind elements of V'Han's technology be handed over to them, and most of it is.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

"No one could have survived THAT!"

 

There, now by ancient comic book law, he's sure to return

 

IMHO it wouldn't be hard to have Vanguard survive in the official CU without changing the timeline. According to Champions Universe, Vanguard sacrificed himself delivering explosives to demolish the asteroids that Dr. Destroyer was trying to crash into the United States. That sounds like the sort of thing a hero would undertake alone, so there were probably no witnesses to what happened to him there. Massively-powerful superhero, lots of nuclear megatonnage, alien rocks of unknown composition, a super tractor beam... there has to be a recipe in all that to allow Vanguard to avoid destruction.

 

Maybe he was quantum-bumped through time, and just now reappears on present-day Earth. Or perhaps he was teleported far across space, and it's taken him this long to return under his own power. Or something like that.

 

Now that would be a major event to include in next year's Champions Universe update: The Return of Vanguard!

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Or maybe he just got the classic knock-on-his-head amnesia, drifted through space not knowing who he is, and has been The Nameless Hero on several alien worlds until he met somebody who finally went 'Hey, you look just like the natives of Sol III! Maybe that's your homeworld! You should go there!'

 

Or the Mandaarians showed up and went 'It is time for you to return. Hold still while we restore your lost memories with our obnoxious telepathic powers. Now get in the spaceship.'

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Yep, the possibilities are numerous.

 

I hope Darren and Steve are reading this.

[Hermit]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

IMHO it wouldn't be hard to have Vanguard survive in the official CU without changing the timeline. According to Champions Universe, Vanguard sacrificed himself delivering explosives to demolish the asteroids that Dr. Destroyer was trying to crash into the United States. That sounds like the sort of thing a hero would undertake alone, so there were probably no witnesses to what happened to him there. Massively-powerful superhero, lots of nuclear megatonnage, alien rocks of unknown composition, a super tractor beam... there has to be a recipe in all that to allow Vanguard to avoid destruction.

 

Maybe he was quantum-bumped through time, and just now reappears on present-day Earth. Or perhaps he was teleported far across space, and it's taken him this long to return under his own power. Or something like that.

 

Now that would be a major event to include in next year's Champions Universe update: The Return of Vanguard!

 

Maybe he was 'saved' by Doctor Destroyer himself, and currently lays in that meglomaniac's clutches. An entire Adventure could be based around the PCs finding out and trying to rescue Vanguard

 

Defender looked at the collected group of heroes waiting for the news to sink in. Some of the heroes he knew, some he'd only heard of; it didn't matter that they know each other, they -all- knew of Vanguard. Defender spoke again, the words tumbling from his lips. He meant to speak softly, but somehow, as the words rolled forth, he found them building to a clariion call: "He saved so many lives so many times, now it is up to us to return the favor. Are you with me?"

 

The answer came in different ways, some eloquent, others simple, a few gave it in foriegn languages, and others quietly nodded, the determination in their eyes speaking silent volumes, but it didn't matter, because the answer from each one there was the same. The answer was "Yes!"

 

EDIT: Editted to make it more better goodlier sounding.

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Just once I'd like to see a major update event that Doctor Destroyer *wasn't* it. He keeps going for the media overexposure, he's gonna start getting on my nerves.

 

Oh, wait. I forgot that I already X'ed him out of my upcoming campaign anyway.

 

From my setting notes distributed to my players:

 

Doctor Destroyer

 

For this one instance, the DM will break his 'only what is publicly known' policy and make an /ex cathedra/ statement regarding the canon of his game.

 

Doctor Destroyer is not just dead, but really most sincerely dead. Not 'mostly dead', not 'mysteriously dead', but quite throughly and completely and most energetically deceased. He has passed on. He is is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. If he hadn't blown himself into random quarks he'd be pushing up the daisies. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig, kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.

 

He is, in short, an ex-supervillain.

 

Hope this helps.

[Hermit]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

He's off the twig, kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.

 

"The Spark of his Life is smothered in #$$#" -Roland, A Knight's Tale

[Lord Liaden]

Just once I'd like to see a major update event that Doctor Destroyer *wasn't* it. He keeps going for the media overexposure, he's gonna start getting on my nerves.

 

Oh, wait. I forgot that I already X'ed him out of my upcoming campaign anyway.

 

From my setting notes distributed to my players:

 

 

Doctor Destroyer

 

For this one instance, the DM will break his 'only what is publicly known' policy and make an /ex cathedra/ statement regarding the canon of his game.

 

Doctor Destroyer is not just dead, but really most sincerely dead. Not 'mostly dead', not 'mysteriously dead', but quite throughly and completely and most energetically deceased. He has passed on. He is is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. If he hadn't blown himself into random quarks he'd be pushing up the daisies. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig, kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.

 

He is, in short, an ex-supervillain.

 

Hope this helps.

 

So, what exactly are you trying to say?

[Hermit]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

So' date=' what exactly are you trying to say? [/quote']

 

I bet he's saying he has his players fooled and Dr. Destroyer is behind EVERYTHING... It's brilliant!

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Actually, no. While I will use disinformation tactics like any other DM, my players and I have an agreement -- if I specifically state that I am speaking /ex cathedra/, then what I am telling them is true. It's a trust thing.

[Hermit]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Actually' date=' no. While I will use disinformation tactics like any other DM, my players and I have an agreement -- if I specifically state that I am speaking /ex cathedra/, then what I am telling them is true. It's a trust thing.[/quote']

 

Sorry, forgot to put in a smiley. Twas meant to be a jest.

 

Alas, Alack, Al at the shoe store.

[Trained Chicken]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I'd like to see Excalibur done right. While I never liked to actually read the issues I bought due to extreme hack crappery, I love the character concepts. I'd like to see Moon Knight treated with respect. Guardians of the Galaxy. Mr. Miracle and the New Gods treated as a pantheon. I'd like to see Static aka Virgil Hawkins. Give me back the old Champions, btw. Give Nighthawk his own team like the Outsiders.

 

OK on celestial power level, Galactus is indeed right up there with Death and Eternity. He does not have cosmic awareness, but he does hold within his worldship all knowledge of the Multiverse in a strange energy-beam computer. The whole 'power level proportional to gas tank" thing is untrue- he just doesn't exert himself unless he reaslly has to.

 

Galactus can singlehandedly smack down any entity or entities in the MU aside from Eternity and Death (and don't challenge him on this one, because he might beat them, too). Statting him out is nonsense. As mentioned earlier, he took on the entire Celestial Host and singlehandedly shooed them off, without his worldship.

[Kirby]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I would like to see an homage done for Hawkman and Hawkwoman. Not only were they a married couple, but they were my favorites. (Strangely enough, I've never made an homage to either. Hmm.) I second the Juggernaut, though would like to see a Wonder Woman one done as well. The Female Furies would be pretty neat, but they're not as big of headliners as some others.

 

What's funny is that until people mentioned it (on a previous thread about homages), I never thought of Grond as a Hulk homage. I had always pictured Ogre as one; Grond seemed better written, IMHO.

 

Anyway, I think it would be real neat if DC just up and decided either (1) they didn't want to worry about the RPG market any more and allowed Hero to make official translations of DC characters, or (2) they wanted to make extra money so they loaned the rights for Hero Games to make official translations of DC characters. (Yes, very similar, and each very unlikely, but one can think of nice things.)

[MitchellS]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Anyway' date=' I think it would be real neat if DC just up and decided either (1) they didn't want to worry about the RPG market any more and allowed Hero to make official translations of DC characters, or (2) they wanted to make extra money so they loaned the rights for Hero Games to make official translations of DC characters. (Yes, very similar, and each very unlikely, but one can think of nice things.)[/quote']

The DC RPG license has already been issued to Black Industries and the game is being produced by Green Ronin. Supposedly it will be on sale next summer.

[Kirby]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

You can't wait even five minutes to quash my dreams of the fantastic?

[MitchellS]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

You can't wait even five minutes to quash my dreams of the fantastic?

Well since I'm playing M&M right now the news puts a big smile on my face.

[Kirby]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Well since I'm playing M&M right now the news puts a big smile on my face.

[McCoy]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Just once I'd like to see a major update event that Doctor Destroyer *wasn't* it. He keeps going for the media overexposure, he's gonna start getting on my nerves.

 

Oh, wait. I forgot that I already X'ed him out of my upcoming campaign anyway.

 

From my setting notes distributed to my players:

Doctor Destroyer

 

For this one instance, the DM will break his 'only what is publicly known' policy and make an /ex cathedra/ statement regarding the canon of his game.

 

Doctor Destroyer is not just dead, but really most sincerely dead. Not 'mostly dead', not 'mysteriously dead', but quite throughly and completely and most energetically deceased. He has passed on. He is is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. If he hadn't blown himself into random quarks he'd be pushing up the daisies. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig, kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.

 

He is, in short, an ex-supervillain.

 

Hope this helps.

So you're saying he's coming back as a clone? :)

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I don't care about the bleedin' clonage, he's still dead.