Homages you would like to see officially

[Karma]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I'd like to second that request "Proditor" ! In fact the more "foreign" (non U S) characters that are written up in the "official" Champions Universe the more I like it ! How about "Captain Britain" or "Sunfire" while we are at it ?

Seconded. In fact one of my pet peaves (and yes I have said this before) with FRED CU is that they have taken characters who were foreign in 4th ED and done them over to make them American (Deuce from PSI comes to mind).

[Rage]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Well since I'm playing M&M right now the news puts a big smile on my face.

i hear you

[Starlord]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Kinetik's combat movement in terms of mph is rather low end for a speedster IMO. He clocks in at only 52.2 MPH. When he runs up a wall, that velocity is cut in half due to the way moving against gravity officially works. So he jogs up a wall at about 26.1 MPH. However, I believe MitchellS has stated in the past that he uses house rules for super speed running that is based on Flight, so that bit of strangeness wouldn't necessarily apply to his games.

 

Regardless of the running up walls bit, in combat Kinetik is only about 15 mph faster then Defender and Iron Clad (both of whom can manage 37.2 mph for flight and leaping respectively). The Hero System Bestiary places a normal Cheetah at a top combat velocity of 70 mph, so the cat's got him beat too

 

Kinetik also does less damage on a move through or move by then either Defender or Iron Clad would, since their combat movements are the same but the other two are much stronger. And since his defenses are lower, he tends to get hurt more doing them too. Hell, Iron Clad actually has a better chance to hit since his max hand to hand OCV is 2 pts higher. Fortunately, Kinetik can rely on Passing Strike and Passing Throw to get around quickly and still do decent damage (11d6 + Fmove with no risk of hurting himself and at a 10 OCV). Since he does get more actions then Defender or IC, he actually averages more damage in a turn then either of them IF he goes balls out. However, doing so runs him out of END in no time flat.

 

Kinetik's NCM and Mega movement do get him around very fast out of combat (top speeds of 835.3 mph and 26,098.8 mph respectively) however. So he does tend to get to the crime scene much quicker then any of the actual Champions, except perhaps Witchfire (depending on how you use her VPP).

Still, he ain't no Flash or Quicksilver.

 

Anyhow, sorry for the tangent/rant.

 

...but he does have really cool goggles....

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

OK, so is Kinetic a bad build , or is the combat/non combat speed thing wonky in general. Would you put more points in the combat speed and lower the megascale, so he would be faster in combat?

 

I would also like to see an homage to The Fantastic Four. I hink there was a hint in one of the supplements about something like that, but I can't recall.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I don't know whether it would be a homage, but I would like to see something similar to Spider-Man in the sense that he is a character whose powers are not all that impressive on a CU scale but who is so clever, resourceful and experienced that he finds a way to win in spite of it.

[MitchellS]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

OK' date=' so is Kinetic a bad build , or is the combat/non combat speed thing wonky in general. Would you put more points in the combat speed and lower the megascale, so he would be faster in combat?[/quote']

When you realize that few characters in Champions have a combat move greater then 30-40 mph [heck, even Dr. Destroyer only has 30" of flight with his 8 speed] it is not really a big deal. Kinetik can switch to non-combat speed at any time and be moving the listed 800+ MPH [and using the velocity-based dcv table he doesn't even lose any DCV. He goes from 9 to 15].

 

I would also like to see an homage to The Fantastic Four. I hink there was a hint in one of the supplements about something like that, but I can't recall.

They're called the Fabulous Five. Diamond is still active as a member of the Sentinels.

[MitchellS]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I don't know whether it would be a homage' date=' but I would like to see something similar to Spider-Man in the sense that he is a character whose powers are not all that impressive on a CU scale but who is so clever, resourceful and experienced that he finds a way to win in spite of it.[/quote']

That'd be an interesting character to see. I'm not sure how I'd build him in Hero though. Maybe a small VPP to represent a lot of different small abilities that can help turn the tide. I was a little surprised to see no direct Spidey homage considering how popular the character is.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

When you realize that few characters in Champions have a combat move greater then 30-40 mph [heck' date= even Dr. Destroyer only has 30" of flight with his 8 speed] it is not really a big deal. Kinetik can switch to non-combat speed at any time and be moving the listed 800+ MPH [and using the velocity-based dcv table he doesn't even lose any DCV. He goes from 9 to 15].

 

No question, when you work out the real-world equivalents most of the CU characters are painfully slow as written, including at non-combat speeds. A more liberal application of NCM Adders would have made a world of difference, and been fairly cheap to add.

 

 

They're called the Fabulous Five. Diamond is still active as a member of the Sentinels.

 

The Fabulous Five (Silver-Age homages to the FF) are given writeups and detailed background/history by Darren Watts in Digital Hero #s 9-12. IMO it's a fun read - Darren's enthusiasm for the characters really shines through.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

That'd be an interesting character to see. I'm not sure how I'd build him in Hero though. Maybe a small VPP to represent a lot of different small abilities that can help turn the tide. I was a little surprised to see no direct Spidey homage considering how popular the character is.

 

The VPP is a good idea. I figure such a character would also need lots of Skill Levels, high-roll Power Skill with whatever his/her main abilities were, Tactics, Deduction and quite a bit of Luck.

 

The official CU timeline does mention what appears to be an homage to Spider-Man, the first Hornet (not to be confused with the villain in CKC). Like so many of the cool CU character concepts, though, he's Silver Age and in the present day retired or dead.

[MitchellS]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

No question' date=' when you work out the real-world equivalents most of the CU characters are painfully slow as written, including at non-combat speeds. A more liberal application of NCM Adders would have made a world of difference, and been fairly cheap to add. [/quote']

We house ruled NCM modifiers to work like a type of Mega-Scale. Each NCM level multiplied the base movement x10 [x10, x100, x100, etc]. That allowed us a much wider range of velocity without making the cost unbearable.

 

The Fabulous Five (Silver-Age homages to the FF) are given writeups and detailed background/history by Darren Watts in Digital Hero #s 9-12. IMO it's a fun read - Darren's enthusiasm for the characters really shines through.

The Green Grenadier was funny too.

[MitchellS]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

The official CU timeline does mention what appears to be an homage to Spider-Man' date=' the first Hornet (not to be confused with the villain in CKC). Like so many of the cool CU character concepts, though, he's Silver Age and in the present day retired or dead. [/quote']

I had forgotten about Hornet! Old age is setting in. Thanks for reminding me.

[Peregrine]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

So you're saying he's coming back as a clone? :)

Don't say 'clone'.

'Clone' = 'Teleios'.

Please don't say 'clone'...

[bcholmes]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

now might be the time to voice what sort of homages you either haven't seen but would like' date=' or think could have been done better.[/quote']

 

As far as I know, there is no Matter-Eater Lad homage in the CU. This is an oversight that must be remedied. (And Calorie Queen, too!)

[Spidey88]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Michael Hopcroft and MitchellS:

 

Can you guess which of your ideas I'd like to jabber about?

 

Anyhoo, the VPP sounds like a pretty decent idea for a resourceful, Spidey-like guy. To keep it like Spider-man, you'd have to apply a mess of limitations (takes time to study enemy, work on a solution in a lab, etc.) if you were going to deal with gadgetry - but otherwise, as long as you defined that it couldn't create new powers (just add to current abilities and characteristics), I think that it could work extremely well, representing the well of determination and experience the hero posesses. Maybe with the limitation "Can only be used when DNPC's or innocents are threatened". Not a necessity - and it might work better for temporary boosts to some characteristics.

 

Trapped under tons of debris, with your elderly DNPC dying in the hospital, awaiting the cure lying 4 feet in fron of you? Throw your VPP into strength.

 

Mind being taken over by an alien being bent on destoying your home city, starting with the child in its talons? Put it into Ego.

 

Have to fight through 117 well-armed agents to save the world? Put it into END and Stun.

 

 

A decent Find Weakness ability, with the limitation "requires extra time to study opponent" could be a pretty simple fix for modelling some of the same resourcefulness too, IMHO.

 

 

I could go on for quite some time about Spider-Man homages (as I've made plenty) - I won't. Elements they all have in common, though, are high DEX and DCV (an important part of Spider-Man thematically, IMHO - as the little guy who may not be able to mount a huge offense against a cosmic foe, but darned if he isn't irritatingly hard to swat!), high movement and SPD (for much of the same, hard to pin down), good INT (for better background skills that can be used to take advantage of foes and the environment), and a decent EGO (being a solitary hero against impossible odds means you need a will of iron).

 

I'll say this much - building a truly accurate Spider-Man is really quite expensive! Homages are much cheaper.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

As far as I know' date=' there is no Matter-Eater Lad homage in the CU. This is an oversight that must be remedied. (And Calorie Queen, too!)[/quote']

Hear, hear!

 

And Bouncing Boy too, dammit!*

 

 

 

 

(*Unless there is a version I just don't know about.)

[rayoman]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

 

I mean, lets face it, we all accept that Kinetic is supposed to be fast enough to run up the side of a building... until you calculate it out and realize that he does so at a combat velocity of less then 30 mph

 

By my calculations the speed is 52.21 MPH. Forgot to half the value so you are correct, Bloodstone. sorry about that.

 

Now, if you include his Megascale slot then he runs up buildings at 26,098.80

MPH (half that).

[levi]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodstone

 

I mean, lets face it, we all accept that Kinetic is supposed to be fast enough to run up the side of a building... until you calculate it out and realize that he does so at a combat velocity of less then 30 mph

 

By my calculations the speed is 52.21 MPH.

 

Now, if you include his Megascale slot then he runs up buildings at 26,098.80

MPH (half that).

 

Actually running up the side of a building has nothing to do with Speed, but Thrust or Strength to propel yourself vertically, unless you are altering gravity's effect on yourself in some way (such as Clinging or Change Environment). I usually make Speedsters buy Clinging linked to Running to simulate running up walls and aleviate this issue.

[rayoman]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodstone

 

I mean, lets face it, we all accept that Kinetic is supposed to be fast enough to run up the side of a building... until you calculate it out and realize that he does so at a combat velocity of less then 30 mph

.

 

 

actually, I forgot to half the 52 mph so Bloodstone was correct in saying Kinetics combat speed is less than 30 mph for running up the side of a building.

[proditor]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I can't believe I forgot this one:

 

The Shi'Ar Imperial Guard. (As the Malvan "Emperor's Champions" or something similar)

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Heck, I already have those -- as "Majestrix V'Han's Imperial Guard".

[proditor]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Some more that I've been mulling:

 

Challengers of the Unknown, The Sea Devils, etc. Basically the normal guys who still manage to stand next to the guys in capes without losing an inch of respect. They had a nice venue for this in the past with the Johnny Quest homage, and it would be nice to bring something like that back.

 

Additionally, I'd like to see some more of the mythologicals. We seem to have a decent Egyptian presence in the CU, so maybe make them the new Greek or Norse a la DC/Marvel. Perhaps we have a new guy on the block calling himself Horus and wearing a modified version of Nightduck's uniform, but with some mystical doodads.

 

And then, add one more pantheon into common use so you can have the great misunderstandings. Since Central American seems to be the next source for myth stuff (At least in 4e), you could throw them in the mix and get that nice rivalry back.

 

Just some random thoughts.

[Chuckg]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Challengers of the Unknown' date=' The Sea Devils, etc. Basically the normal guys who still manage to stand next to the guys in capes without losing an inch of respect.[/quote']

 

I know it's not what your after, but from reading the Digital Hero, the Fabulous Five were very much the Challengers of the Unknown before getting their powers, and were still pumpin' the explorer vibe a lot afterwards.

[proditor]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I know it's not what your after' date=' but from reading the Digital Hero, the Fabulous Five were very much the Challengers of the Unknown before getting their powers, and were still pumpin' the explorer vibe a lot afterwards.[/quote']

Very true, but I always saw the FF vibe sort of overshadowing the rest. Hmm, those were good write-ups. Might have to sort my DH issues and do some re-reading.

[OddHat]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

Very true' date=' but I always saw the FF vibe sort of overshadowing the rest. Hmm, those were good write-ups. Might have to sort my DH issues and do some re-reading.[/quote']

 

FF were a Challengers tribute / rip-off from the start. I thought merging the two tributes in the DH article was a clever approach.

[st barbara]

Re: Homages you would like to see officially

 

I can't believe I forgot this one:

 

The Shi'Ar Imperial Guard. (As the Malvan "Emperor's Champions" or something similar)

But the Shi'Ar Imperial Guard have been described as nothing more than a "tribute" to the Legion Of Super Heros ! So this other lot is a tribute to a tribute ? This is getting just a bit incestuous don't you think ?