BigJackBrass Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 I was young, I admit. Heck, I wasn't even playing Champions at the time - it was a Golden Heroes game, as I recall - but it seemed like such a great idea for a character. Jason Gaunt, The Bulletproof Man. He wasn't going to be a typical destructive super, throwing cars and blasting cosmic radiation willy-nilly. No no, this was going to be an almost ordinary guy doing his best in a world of supers. Gaunt's power was basically that he was almost impossible to kill. Shoot him, fry him, bury him in concrete... he'd survive, and sooner or later he'd get out and get on with the job. And he sucked badly. Pretty soon whenever a supervillain spotted Gaunt they adopted a variation on the Soon-to-be-Patented Anti-Bulletproof Man Tactic: Drop a bus on him. An hour later he might have crawled out, or a friendly hero might have picked the bus up, by which time he'd missed the show. I was forced to retire him. Twenty years later I can see the glaring mistakes I made, but I still understand what I was trying for with that character. Has this happened to you? Have you taken a great and noble concept and found that the character simply doesn't translate into gameable material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... I've done the Invulnerable man motiff as well in my early days. Boy, was that a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Invulnerability would seem to be fine, but I think that it needs some OTHER power (such as super strength) to back it up. Come to think of it isn't invulnerability most of "Smax" (from "Top 10") power ? Similarly, if I remember "The Shield" was mostly bulletproof (well at least that seemed to be his only "superpower") but he had acrobatics and fighting skills (martial arts ? I can't remember !) to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Twenty years later I can see the glaring mistakes I made, but I still understand what I was trying for with that character. Has this happened to you? Have you taken a great and noble concept and found that the character simply doesn't translate into gameable material? Darren Watts succesfully ran this type of character. He is in Champions 3000, named Bulletproof. So it can be done but I'd think you would need a understanding GM. As to trying to run a concept that uneasily translates to a game, I'm going through that right now but from the GM side. One of players detests physical violence and wants to play a character with cupid-like love powers, the other PCs take every chance to slap around the poor lovesick dopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... My favorite champions character, Anthem, is a highly invulnerable martial artist. Her weakness is definitely grabs, so I've been giving her skills and superskills related to slipping free of grabs. But there are holes, and it's kind of intentional. The point to me is to give the character room to grow. As for bad character design: Plenty of times. But not one particular one comes to mind. Oh, there was a guy who was all flying movethroughs (like Cannonball), except he never seemed to be able to do two in a row becuase he'd KO himself on the second one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Invulnerability would seem to be fine' date=' but I think that it needs some OTHER power (such as super strength) to back it up. Come to think of it isn't invulnerability most of "Smax" (from "Top 10") power ? [/quote'] he's also got strength and energy blasts he shoots from his chest, makinghiim a pretty tough customer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... My first character sold back his Dex and SPD to 1 so he could purchase 60 STR and not have to use disadvantages... This was after I attempted to roll his characteristics... I wasn't big on reading the rules back then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpira Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Darren Watts succesfully ran this type of character. He is in Champions 3000, named Bulletproof. So it can be done but I'd think you would need a understanding GM. As to trying to run a concept that uneasily translates to a game, I'm going through that right now but from the GM side. One of players detests physical violence and wants to play a character with cupid-like love powers, the other PCs take every chance to slap around the poor lovesick dopes. Yes an understanding GM is key. I do not think a lot of times that it is a case of a concept that translate poorly. You just need to adhere to the tone of the game. In my first game I ever sat down to play for heroes, The GM told me that I needed three things: A defense, an offense and a super movement power. I did not totally agree with him but for his game those things were key for all players and he let everyone know that up front. I, then, made a character concept that adhered to all those things and he still hated it. But that is a story for another time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Jason Gaunt' date=' The Bulletproof Man. [/quote'] Didn't they do something similar in Rising Stars, with the guy who's only power was invulnerability. Someone finally killed him by... I should probably put a spoiler alert in here, even tho that issue is years old. ...by simply tying him to a chair and duct-taping a plastic bag over his head. (Forgot to buy Life Support, I guess.) Has this happened to you? Have you taken a great and noble concept and found that the character simply doesn't translate into gameable material? The worst mistake like this I've made was as a GM, allowing a player to take his Teleportation with Useable On Others. Every non-flying villain they met simply got teleported straight up a few stories. bigdamnhero “If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJackBrass Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... ..by simply tying him to a chair and duct-taping a plastic bag over his head. (Forgot to buy Life Support' date=' I guess.)[/quote'] Gaunt didn't breathe. We never found anything that could kill him, but then Golden Heroes isn't Champions... I doubt I could have built him quite the same way with Champ (for a fair cost). Mind you, maybe a point-build system would have helped me to spot the problem. I guess I just watched too much Captain Scarlet when I was young. The worst mistake like this I've made was as a GM, allowing a player to take his Teleportation with Useable On Others. Every non-flying villain they met simply got teleported straight up a few stories. Ick. Not terribly heroic, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Hey, lets make a rambling post full of fond memories that no body else cares about. One of my favorite early characters (as in when I would spend hours lying on my trampoline thinking of and then and drawing super hero comics.All of this was in primary school,) was a guy called rubber man who was invulnerable to everything but super heated things as he wasn't vulcanised. He took what would be considered double knockback in Hero Terms and he also had on attacks and also had stretching no concious control. He was considered the team's Cypher because compared to the other characters his powers were incredibly useless. Especially since 3 of the other characters had forms of invulnerability plus their regular powers. But I just loved his cynical nature and quiet desperation to be more useful. To this end he was given a gun that shot entangles, low power lazers etc. He also became a great pilot. Eventually I killed him off in a death trap situation that misfired and just powered up all the heroes trapped in it. The other heroes noticed that Rubber man had turned into a black goo and avenged him, they ended up crashing (into the ocean) the space station that they were on, which was the teams until Atmosfear and the Black Battalion (the villains,) stole it. Years later I missed Rubber Man so much that I retconned the space station crash and death trap so that he hadn't actually died, but had just transformed into a perfectly malleable man who then got amnesia and had been wandering the middle east for years. Malleable Man became his new codename once he got his memory back. Its interesting how much love you can have for something that you created when you were a kid... It's also interesting how blind you can be to your lame concepts. "No, I swear, a super hero called Layzor would rule! Everyone would love him." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Hey, lets make a rambling post full of fond memories that no body else cares about. A friend of mine was hard up for ideas. I suggested a high density flying brick who could make meteoric move through attacks. He thought this sounded great, and The Roc was born. The bad guy was a beast-man of some sort, a tunnelling brick. The brick was tunneling under the street, and my friend decides to surprise him with a meteor strike. This was when we found out that he: A: Had no n-ray vision to let him see exactly where the brick was. B: Had a very low OCV, having spent the points bricking himself out. C: Hadn't spent nearly enough points on PD or REC D: Had spent a LOT of points on density increase and flying C: Could effectively create a 10' deep crater in a city street, miss the bad guy entirely, and leave himself unconscious at the bottom of it. oops. It probably wasn't a very good idea to begin with, but it sure was poorly executed. He hurled 50 metric tons of himself into the ground at something like 25"/phase. It made quite an impression on the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... he's also got strength and energy blasts he shoots from his chest' date=' makinghiim a pretty tough customer[/quote'] Smax: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscomic/topten/10smax.html PS: Gene Ha has given his "okay" to the character sheets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Smax: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscomic/topten/10smax.html PS: Gene Ha has given his "okay" to the character sheets! that's cool that you got the thumbs up from Gene Ha himself! did you work up any of the other Top Ten characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... that's cool that you got the thumbs up from Gene Ha himself! did you work up any of the other Top Ten characters? Yes: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscomic/comicchar.html#TEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscomic/comicchar.html#TEN Nice write-ups! [smack with the rep stick] BTW, I heard that they'd brought Top 10 back, but without Allan Moore. Anyone know if it's any good? bigdamnhero “He's not the first psycho to hire us nor the last. You think that's a commentary on us?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... Nice write-ups! [smack with the rep stick] BTW, I heard that they'd brought Top 10 back, but without Allan Moore. Anyone know if it's any good? What little I read looked terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Re: It seemed like such a good idea... The worst mistake like this I've made was as a GM, allowing a player to take his Teleportation with Useable On Others. Every non-flying villain they met simply got teleported straight up a few stories. When I GM, one of my pet peeves is when players use the same trick over-and-over. The two I got tired of seeing was: - The tactic of the brick grabbing one villain and repeatedly using him as a club on another villain. - Fixating on grabbing/destroying villain's OAFs (this one is more player-specific; the player would always do this no matter what character he was playing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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