House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

[ghost-angel]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

I Can Hurt You A Lot - Mulitpower (105 Active Points)

1) 10u VPP - Energy Blast Only, Cosmic (105 AP: 60pt Pool, 45pt Control)

2) 10u VPP - KAs Onlym, Cosmic (105 AP: 60pt Pool, 45pt Control)

3) 10u VPP - Drains Only, Cosmic (105 AP: 60pt Pool, 45pt Control)

Cost: 135 points.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

That's silly. All right thinking people put VPPs inside of Multipowers. ECs are only for characteristics.

 

Ya know, powergaming and muchkiness aside, I've sometimes though about allowing a VPP in a MP in a very specific game, a fantasy game. The MP are no more than 60 points, and the VPP has to have no skill, and 0 phase shift, so it float around 20-25. It is a magic multipower, in a setting where you really only can concentrate on one spell or two (ie the slots), and the pool represents all the little stuff a mage can do with magic - mostly for out of combat stuff - and because of the rules of magic, even when using such things, thier major spells cannot be cast. The SFX fits the mechanics.

 

But I just haven't because - pool inside a MP .... Ick.

[BlackSword]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

The character has no Skills with the exception of Everyman Skills' date=' Breakfall, Analyze, and Combat Skill Levels. I mean zilch for Background Skills. His powers are based on his ability to control darkness. Ironically enough, he can't even create an area of darkness. In other words, he doesn't even have the Darkness power. His reasoning is that it is too expensive. He has a Multipower that includes Energy Blast, Drain Speed, Entangle, Darkness (sight, hearing, combat sense)Usable as Attack w/Uncontrolled (I put my foot down at No Endurance), Healing (I put my foot down again when he tried for Resurrect), Flash (sight/mental sense groups). He has an Elemental Control that includes a Force Field, Teleportation, and a Force Wall.[/quote']

Darkness must be a Mental Drain power, because my previous example of Dr. Everypower used Darkness (shadow manipulation) as his SFX. He also got annoyed when one of the adventures was in a brightly lit location.

He also had the unmitigated gall to try to get me to accept "Hates Ham" and "Hates Wearing a Tuxedo" as legitimate Disadvantages. I was deemed unreasonable when I said "hell no."

The first adventure should be in a pork meat packing plant. He is at a 2 point penalty for all rolls.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

The first adventure should be in a pork meat packing plant. He is at a 2 point penalty for all rolls.

 

How about an expensive society dinner sponsored by the Pork Producers of Anycity, where ham will be served? The character misses the whole adventure because he won't go to the lead-in McGuffin Event. Have a villain at the dinner send the rest of the team on a year-long cross-dimensional epic.

 

Then say "sorry I challenged the value of your clearly very limiting Disad's":rolleyes: .

[Tech]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

In the campaign I'm in, we've always used Elemental Controls and Multipowers. Once in a long while, we use Variable Power Pools. I have one character who has a small Cosmic Power Pool. Without the use of EC, MP and VPP, some of our best (and sometimes most odd) concepts simply wouldn't be possible.

 

I'm not one to generally make simply characters, although we do have those in the campaign. I like to create detailed characters beyond the simple ones and those require the use of a Elemental Control, Multipower and/or Variable Power Pool. I have no problem with the use of them. By the same token, I'm also aware of those drawbacks.

[Zephrosyne]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

You know, you guys, I almost wish I would have let him keep the "Hates Ham" Disadvantage and nailed him with it. The interesting things is that I am considered a strict gm by the various groups for which I have gmed.

 

Bigdamnhero, you must have read my mind. I told myself that for the next campaign, the players will be required to have 10 points of Background Skills. Furthermore, there must be at least three different Background Skills represented.

 

In all honesty, I really have no one but myself to blame for this. I should have seen this coming. I have played with effects-based systems before (e.g. Mutants and Masterminds 2nd Edition and Silver Age Sentinels); therefore, I know that with such flexibility is great opportunity for abuse. I think that I was so concerned with getting the rules and details to Hero System down that I neglected other (arguably more important) responsibilities. Shame on me but lesson learned.

[Niles]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

For just about every Hero campaign I've ever run I've required a minimum of 10 points worth of Background Skill. It also helps serve as an early warning system: if a player gives me grief over it or can't come up with a measly 10 points of non-munchkin skills' date=' then I know he's probably not someone I want to game with.[/quote']

Give me 10 points of background skills for Captian Marvel, Superman, The Human Torch, The Thing, or any member of Power Pack that aren't overinflated, purchasing the same skill multiple times under different names, or paying for everyman skills. I doubt you can.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Give me 10 points of background skills for Captian Marvel' date=' Superman, The Human Torch, The Thing, or any member of Power Pack that aren't overinflated, purchasing the same skill multiple times under different names, or paying for everyman skills. I doubt you can.[/quote']

 

Going with the ones I'm more familiar with, and not spending much thought:

 

Superman:

 

PS: Reporter

AK: Metropolis

KS: Krypton

Deduction

Disguise (and not just the glasses either)

 

The Thing:

 

various transport familiarities (probably at least 10pts in today's system)

Combat Pilot

Gambling (Card Games)

PS: Pilot

AK: New York City

Navigation: Air

 

Human Torch:

 

Mechanics

TF: Ground-based Racing vehicles

Combat Driver

Navigation: Air

[Niles]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Going with the ones I'm more familiar with, and not spending much thought:

 

Superman:

 

PS: Reporter

AK: Metropolis

KS: Krypton

Deduction

Disguise (and not just the glasses either)

3 of the 5 skills you listed are everyman skills, this doesn't reach 10 points

The Thing:

 

various transport familiarities (probably at least 10pts in today's system)

Combat Pilot

Gambling (Card Games)

PS: Pilot

AK: New York City

Navigation: Air

Ben Plays cards for relaxation but I've never thought of him as a Card Sharp. Combat Piloting and Navigation for the Team Vehicle aren't really backgound skills, the TFs total 4 points at most and you included 2 everyman skills.

Human Torch:

 

Mechanics

TF: Ground-based Racing vehicles

Combat Driver

Navigation: Air

the TF is an Everyman skill and would come free with Combat driving anyway. This doesn't total 10 points.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

3 of the 5 skills you listed are everyman skills' date=' this doesn't reach 10 points[/quote']

 

He's presumably making them 3 point skills, not 8- Everyman familiarities.

 

Ben Plays cards for relaxation but I've never thought of him as a Card Sharp. Combat Piloting and Navigation for the Team Vehicle aren't really backgound skills' date=' the TFs total 4 points at most and you included 2 everyman skills[/quote']

 

Ben has been established as a fighter jet pilot, as well as the pilot of Reed's experimental spacecraft. He also played football, so could have some professional skills there.

 

As for Power Pack, no pre-teen supers in my campaign. Billy Batson may also be out on that model, but he is a radio reporter, and survived on his own on the streets. he has some skills unrelated to Superheroing.

[Niles]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

He's presumably making them 3 point skills' date=' not 8- Everyman familiarities.[/quote']

Probably for deduction, almost certainly not for the others. leaving him with 9 points of background skills if the GM accepts that Deduction counts. And Deduction is as much a background skill as teamwork.

 

Ben has been established as a fighter jet pilot' date=' as well as the pilot of Reed's experimental spacecraft. He also played football, so could have some professional skills there.[/quote']

Asking someone to buy a PS for collegette football is stealing points from your players.

[Kristopher]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

IMO, the 8- Everyman skills are insufficient for something that someone actually does as their job, if they're any good at it.

 

 

I could easily come up with 10 pts of skills for myself just out of KS, and that's not including the 3 pts I'd use to give myself Scholar!

 

(Completely serious, by the way.)

[Kristopher]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Asking someone to buy a PS for collegette football is stealing points from your players.

 

No one is making a player take that skill. Please don't ask people to come up with background/non-combat skills for certain characters, and then claim that they're stealing points from their players when they come up with an answer.

[Niles]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

IMO, the 8- Everyman skills are insufficient for something that someone actually does as their job, if they're any good at it.

Everyman PS isn't 8-.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Fwiw,

Ben Grimm has multiple Engineering degrees.

Johnny Storm has actually designed vehicles (cars and Fantasticars) from the ground up. (With help from Reed initially, of course.)

And Superman...good lord, what doesn't he know? Just looking at the knowledge displayed in the construction and upkeep of The Fortress of Solitude is impressive as hell. Of course, he could just have 30 cramming slots...

[Kristopher]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Everyman PS isn't 8-.

 

Whatever, doesn't really change my point. Not everything that's done for a living comes down to a single 11- PS.

 

I'd sum up my job as one PS and a host of KS.

 

I'm rather unfond of catchall skills.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Well, obviously everyone just comes down to:

 

PS: Stuff

KS: Stuff

 

Any differences between characters are just SFX.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Well, obviously everyone just comes down to:

 

PS: Stuff

KS: Stuff

 

Any differences between characters are just SFX.

 

And you should get a limitation on the skill mif you restruct the stuff you do/know!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Probably for deduction' date=' almost certainly not for the others. leaving him with 9 points of background skills if the GM excepts that Deduction counts. And Deduction is as much a background skill as teamwork.[/quote']

 

The same GM who requires 10 points be spent on background skills will need to define what they are. I ocnsider Deduction a stretch in that regard, as well, however.

 

PS: Reporter; PS: Writer; AK: Metropolis and KS: Krypton would fill 10 points with 2 on CHAR rolls and 2 at 11-. That seems easy.

 

Asking someone to buy a PS for collegette football is stealing points from your players.

 

If the player gets some use out of it, it's not "stealing points", in my opinion. A GM requiring 10 points be spent on background skills should also occasionally have them impact the game.

 

I woud consider it reasonable that any college graduate have familiarity in one or more knowledge and/or professional skills related to the career he is preparing for. A successful collegiate football player could logically have a Familiarity in PS: Football. BTW, Ben should also have a KS: Jewish religion familiarity based on his upbringing, something he rarely demonstrates but has used in the past. Horror fiction has been established as another interest. Your comments that he's not a professional card sharp don't ring true to me either - a Familiarity here is also justified. Note that a PS "can also represent hobbies, interests and other abilities which don't have much to do with earning a living".

[ghost-angel]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

I would assume that a GM requesting (or requiring) a player to spend some points on non-combat background Skills will have at least some of that game take place in the characters Secret/Public ID, or not out actively fighting the Bad Guy Of The Day.

 

I have characters who have a skill or two that I never really expect to see the light of day, but it's fun to know the character has something outside of being a superhero that defines them.

[Niles]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

The same GM who requires 10 points be spent on background skills will need to define what they are. I ocnsider Deduction a stretch in that regard, as well, however.

 

PS: Reporter; PS: Writer; AK: Metropolis and KS: Krypton would fill 10 points with 2 on CHAR rolls and 2 at 11-. That seems easy.

You are buying the same PS twice and I don't think of Superman as being much more knowledgable about Metropolis than the average long time resident. Which leaves you with KS: Krypton. I'll add Conversation as a possibitity. between Conversation and Deduction you don't need to raise your PS to be a good reporter.

 

What you appear to be missing here is that Everyman skills are meant to provide a character with all the skills they need to be a productive member of society.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

You are buying the same PS twice

 

Clark Kent is a reorter (locates stories, digs through the information available to find leads, follows them up, distills them into short articles). he is also a best-selling nonfiction author. Researching and writing a book is very different from reporting the news. Clark is also an award-winning journalist, which doesn't scream "basic 11-" to me.

 

and I don't think of Superman as being much more knowledgable about Metropolis than the average long time resident.

 

Which is an AK.

 

Actually, Supes seems quite able to travel quickly to any location in the world, so we're shorting him by just saying AK: Metropolis. As well, wherever he goes, he seems quite able to communicate. How many languages does he speak?

 

What you appear to be missing here is that Everyman skills are meant to provide a character with all the skills they need to be a productive member of society.

 

No, they're the very basics that everyone has some inkling with. These are 8- skills in acting, climbing, concealment, conversation, deduction, native language (4 pt fluency), paramedics, persuasion, shadowing, stealth and Transport Familiarity - small motorized ground vehicles (ie you can drive a car), AK (home country or region - so does Supes have AK: Metropolis, AK - Kansas, or AK: USA?), and a single PS at 11- (profession or hobby).

 

It does bear noting that, if the requirement is for 10 points in background skills as 5er describes them, they are limited to Knowledge, Language, Professional, Science and Transport Familiarity skills, which lets out a number of the skills set out in prior examples.

 

Some games I've been in take a differing approach. Characters are built on standard points, but can spend some aded number on background-type skills. That is, if your background merits 10 points of background skills, take them for free. If your character is a crashlanded alien with no background skills, you don't get to use the freebie points.

[SuperKlaus]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Choo choo choo...that's the sound of the thread derailing! And it now looks like it's going to hit that pretty lass before the dashing hero can get to her, too...

 

I'll chime in anyway because I never liked her. I'd like to think I can trust players enough that I'll never be compelled to require X who-are-we-kidding-these-are-used-once-per-campaign Skills. I think Niles is right that a lot of famous and interesting comic book personalities are lacking in Skills and that's no issue. Disadvantages (especially Psych Lims) are where a character shows his personality in game terms.

[Kristopher]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

Choo choo choo...that's the sound of the thread derailing! And it now looks like it's going to hit that pretty lass before the dashing hero can get to her, too...

 

I'll chime in anyway because I never liked her. I'd like to think I can trust players enough that I'll never be compelled to require X who-are-we-kidding-these-are-used-once-per-campaign Skills. I think Niles is right that a lot of famous and interesting comic book personalities are lacking in Skills and that's no issue. Disadvantages (especially Psych Lims) are where a character shows his personality in game terms.

 

IMO, Disads, especially PsychLims, are over-rated. Almost no one's personality is that cut and dry, that consistent. There's a real danger of drifting off into caricature with PsychLims, espcially the Total ones, which IMO should be reserved for serious psychological "issues".

 

Also, I'd like to think that most people have some good/positive things that define them, but with Disads, even good things are forced to become "disadvantageous". This means that the characters are either hindered by their own goodness (a bit too cynical, even for me), or get nothing in-game out of the better halves of their personalities.

 

I've never agreed that a character's flaws and limitations are what "make them interesting".

 

I've never understood why people are so gung-ho about Disads and flaws. Good roleplayers don't need a set of restrictions on the character sheet to get them to play the character.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: House Rule: Banning Multipowers & Elemental Controls?

 

IMO, Disads, especially PsychLims, are over-rated. Almost no one's personality is that cut and dry, that consistent. There's a real danger of drifting off into caricature with PsychLims, espcially the Total ones, which IMO should be reserved for serious psychological "issues".

 

Also, I'd like to think that most people have some good/positive things that define them, but with Disads, even good things are forced to become "disadvantageous". This means that the characters are either hindered by their own goodness (a bit too cynical, even for me), or get nothing in-game out of the better halves of their personalities.

 

I've never agreed that a characters flaws and limitations are what "make them interesting".

 

I've never understood why people are so gung-ho about Disads and flaws. Good roleplayers don't need a set of restrictions on the character sheet to get them to play the character.

 

1) Not everyone is a good roleplayer. Some are bad roleplayers, others are borderline. This does not make them bad people, nor does it ake them incapable of portraying a character other than themselves in the right circumstances.

 

2) The necessary and the useful are two different things. I can add in my head - I still want to use pen and paper if I'm adding 20 different numbers up and it matters that I be accurate.

 

3) Having it written down makes it easy to remember. This can help both GM and player. (GM, esp. for forward planning...)

 

 

As for flaws not being important for an interesting character...

 

Two words: Mary Sue.

And a challenge: Come up with a list of interesting fictional characters with no flaws.