Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

What about a smoke screen system (Darkness, likely with only a few charges and possibly no range)? You could consider replacing the smoke with tear gas or something similar, if desired.

[SteveBerman]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

What about a smoke screen system (Darkness' date=' likely with only a few charges and possibly no range)? You could consider replacing the smoke with tear gas or something similar, if desired.[/quote']

 

I already having something like this. But it does occur to me that I would be better off with a Change Environment that affects combat (coughing) than Darkness plus EB NND.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Wow, what an intriguing notion. I've honestly never seen powered armor bought like this -- granted, I am not familiar with the rule system as most posters. Makes me envision her garage filled with parts so she could build the Diesel suit again rather easily if something happened to it.

 

-- Steve

 

Personally, I generally define the difference as follows:

OIF: It's a more powerful disad, clocking in at -1/2. That means that you're going to lose access to it around 1/3 of the time. That means that it probably takes at least 5 minutes to put the stuff on, and that you probably have to go to where it's being stored; it means that its components can be targeted and broken, and it means that if somebody captures the party, you're going to have to search your captor's installation to find it again.

OIHID: This is only -1/4. You're only going to be denied your armor if somebody interrupts your "transformation" phase, or if your GM has you define some circumstance in which you can't change. In this case, your armor is kept in an energy state in your wristwatch, or it can quickly fly/dig/be delivered to your location by some transport, where it attaches itself to you.

 

Basically, OIF means that you go to the armor. OIHID means that the armor comes to you. However, unlike a power that has neither of those disads, it's still possible to stop you from 'armoring up', even with OIHID.

[SteveBerman]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

I want to thank everyone who replied to this thread.

 

I finally finished the nuts and bolts of the character. Is she the most effective Powered Armor hero? Probably not. I like spunky underdogs. But her abilities have a certain personality. Hopefully she would survive and do well in a fight.

 

This will be a busy weekend (I have a book signing in NYC at Books of Wonder), but hopefully in early April I will have the chance to flesh out her character sheet with Background details. I'll post the finalized Diesel then.

 

Steve

[mikesama]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Mount a .50 cal Machinegun on that sucker and watch the points fly away.

 

3D6 RKA AP (+1/2) AUto: 5 (+1/2) 100 charges (+1/2 or 3/4, I'm at work without my book) OAF (-1) Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

Active cost: 122

Real Cost: 50

[Badger]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Well without looking at the sheet. (too lazy right now, LOL) I will say it is always handy to get an extra skill or 2, or buy up a skill an extra pip. Also make sure your characteristics are the way you want them to be. I have looked things over and said "You know an extra couple of points in DEX would probably be best for this type of character. (Or some such thing).

 

 

Course my problem is more often not enough points.

[Karma]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also, does anyone else have this problem? Yes, I would prefer to play in lower-powered campaigns, but that is not always a possibility.

 

Yes I've had this problem before. Somtimes I find myself adding powers and sklls which I had planned on taking later in my character's carrier just to make up the points. Even in 200 pt games I sometimes feel my charaters are more experienced than the 'novice heroes' concept should allow me to be.

 

"Right I'm a teenager who has just discovered my powers. So why exactly am I buying a suit of Martial Arts maneuvers and a bevy of skills and increasing my stats to superhuman levels just so I can make the point limit."

 

Of course alot of people can come up with great justifications how a teenager could have little or no limitations of his newly found powers and access to superscience and top level stats, but I'm never one of them. To me the point of playing a novice superhero is to get the feel of being just that 'a novice', which is why a tend to limit powers alot, and thereby have trouble 'making the grade'.

 

As for your character, try to think how grandad got around in the old days if he couldn't fly. Did the army have jet that he and his teammates used? Or a truck?

How about some grenades kept in one of the suits legs? Also you might be skiping on the strength the suit provides given that I see grandad 'rip the tops off of tanks' type WWII hero.

Of course, if you want to leave the suit at Golden age levels, then concentrate on what the charater brings to it. What sorts of skills talents and perks does she have. remember there is nothing worse than a PA suit hero who is useless outside her suit (and it's a trope of the genre that your hero will be caught that way at least once in their carrier).

[SteveBerman]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Mount a .50 cal Machinegun on that sucker and watch the points fly away.

 

3D6 RKA AP (+1/2) AUto: 5 (+1/2) 100 charges (+1/2 or 3/4, I'm at work without my book) OAF (-1) Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

Active cost: 122

Real Cost: 50

 

 

This is so wrong on so many levels.

 

First too many active points for the campaign, then it's a killing attack and I mentioned ealier in the post that she refuses to add any to the armor.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

This is so wrong on so many levels.

 

First too many active points for the campaign, then it's a killing attack and I mentioned ealier in the post that she refuses to add any to the armor.

 

Modify it for rubber bullets and you may have something, though.

[Kirby]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

This is so wrong on so many levels.

 

First too many active points for the campaign, then it's a killing attack and I mentioned ealier in the post that she refuses to add any to the armor.

That, and a .50 Cal is 2d6+1K+1Stun.

[Kirby]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

First, I apologize for taking so long, but here it goes:

As I mentioned in response to another recommendation to raise her INT' date=' I just don't feel as if she's booksmart or savvy. [/quote'] Even though most people don't see it this way (and I didn't until I read up on it months ago ), you can be a genius with a 5 INT and an idiot with 30 INT, but the higher the INT, the better your Perception and the quicker you (mentally) respond to things/information. My thinking is that her mental reflexes would be something similar to a fighter pilots: she has to take in information read-outs and respond quickly. Of course, if you're not comfortable with it, just disregard. My feelings won't be hurt. Much. That you can tell.

 

 

Oh she's way too butch. I envision her physically as squat but still in good shape. Guys wouldn't really be into her' date=' but that doesn't bother her at all if you get my drift.[/quote']I've seen (on Anomaly's Ravenswood Academy thread) where you prefer more realistic to genre, so maybe her granddad was a stud in his day (that's how he became successful in the military and in marriage), he had cute kids, they married cute kids and she's a cute kid but doesn't care to show it, OR, there is the genre of the "ugly duckling" just waiting for someone to clean her up for a dance and that's when she shines like a swan. Then, the next day, she's back in her overalls and pony-tail.

 

I'm just sayin', besides, you need to spend those points. Don't you?

 

 

The perk is possible. But the suit is too low-tech I think for any system talents.

They had range finders and compasses back then, ya know. They even had analog computers!

 

 

Can I ask why this is usually done?

All the powered-armor NPCs do this. It's the "in thing." But the reasoning is probably because STR, CON, and BODY are figured into PD/ED, REC and STUN. A stronger machine shouldn't help the person inside Recover quicker and shouldn't add to the person's defenses (this is what the ARMOR is for). And for DEX, that figures in for SPD, and should someone take the suit or the PC gain DEX, then you've got some wasted points as you try to rebalance. (This may not be the most coherent explanation, but it sounds much better in my head.)

 

 

Thanks

You're welcome.

[Alverant]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

I made a character using a similar idea, a suit of powered armor that focuses on durability than fancy gadgets. The first thing I'd do is boost your armor to campaign max and add Hardened. Maybe throw in Damage Reduction. WWII tanks are still working but not so much tanks from the 70s or so. Back then, things were more durable. Plus Golden age heroes had high defences. To enforce the "durable" notion, you can add Power Defence with the "only for suit" to keep cyberkineticists at bay.

 

Since the suit is heavy from the steel, add a few extra DC in hand attacks. Also an ex-soldier would have extra running, stun, and endurance. I also don't see any WF. Boosting her PS:Soldier would cover any skills you forgot. Actually, contrary to the other posts, I'd keep the extra air at 12 seconds because if Diesel is smaller than her father and grandfather then there would be extra room inside. Finally you can't go wrong with a dice or two of luck. I second the idea of saving a few points to use for skills you learn as you need them.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Even in 200 pt games I sometimes feel my charaters are more experienced than the 'novice heroes' concept should allow me to be.

 

"Right I'm a teenager who has just discovered my powers. So why exactly am I buying a suit of Martial Arts maneuvers and a bevy of skills and increasing my stats to superhuman levels just so I can make the point limit."

A 350-point super is generally considered to be early in his/her career, but not a total novice - hence the 50 points worth of Hunteds most 350-point characters start out with. In my current campaign, the PCs are complete novices who just got their powers; as a result, they started out as 250-point heroes. My XP awards are somewhat inflated for the early sessions, so they will quickly work their way up to 350-points as they learn how to use their powers.

[assault]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

hence the 50 points worth of Hunteds most 350-point characters start out with.

 

Not in my campaigns they don't. They get one 8- Hunted at most, and maybe a Watched. 30 points, at the outside.

 

Anything more and they become a pain to GM.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

I know I'm coming to this a bit late, but I'll toss in my 2 xp anyway.

 

First, if you want other examples of low-tech powered armor (and if you have access to these 4th Edition books) check out Dreadnought in Classic Enemies and Panzer Grenadier, G.I.A.N.T. and Knight Owl in Golden Age Champions. All of these are WWII-era power armor suits. The G.I.A.N.T. comes in at 241 points total, Panzer Grenadier at 260 and Knight Owl at 187. Knight Owl's armor is driven by spring-powered clockwork mechanisms, but both the G.I.A.N.T. and Panzer Grenadier are driven by types of internal combustion engines (though, admittedly, Panzer Grenadier is powered by a peroxide-diesel engine of the type sometimes used in submarines because it doesn't need free [gaseous] oxygen to work).

 

Dreadnought comes in at 479 points, and is powered by a small, primitive nuclear pile (which slowly kills the pilot), so most likely wouldn't give you too much in the way of direct "theme" material, though it's a good example of a minimalist early power-armor write-up.

 

(Golden Age Champions might be something you should consider finding anyway, because there is a lot of info there you could use for fleshing out the background and history of the suit, old enemies and allies of grandad's, and so on. Likewise the 5th Edition Pulp Hero has a lot of material pertaining to that general time period that could be of use.)

 

Other than the comments already made (which have been good ones) there are a few I'd like to add.

 

Wagnern suggested using a VPP for add-on components, weaponry, and so on but you said you'd always been afraid of VPPs. How do you feel about multipowers? You can get the same net effect, without having to worry about the complexities of a VPP. Plus you can make a lot of the equipment carried items. (The write-up for the G.I.A.N.T. mentions the weaponry isn't built-in, but because of the servo-powered arms it carried things like a recoiless rifle of the type usually mounted as the main gun on a tank, stuff like that. If this suit stems from the same era, perhaps a similar idea was used.)

 

Let me illustrate what I mean:

 

 

Cost	Power
26	[b]Mission-Specific Equipment:[/b] Multipower, 52-point reserve, Can 
	only change slots in base or with appropriate tools and 
	supplies (-1/2); all slots at least OIF (-1/2)

2u	01)  [i]No-Man's Land Armor Plating:[/i] Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened
	(+1/4); OIF Bulky (-1)

2u	02)  [i]Soft Steel Plates:[/i] Physical Damage Reduction, 75%; OIF Bulky
	(-1),	Ablative BODY Only (-1/2)

1u	03)  [i]Oversized Servos and Pistons:[/i] +20 STR; Increased Endurance
	Cost (x2 END; -1/2), OIF (-1/2), Draws END from END Reserve

2u	04)  [i]Concussion Grenades:[/i] EB 10d6, STUN Only (+0); OAF Bandolier
	of Grenades (-1), Beam (-1/4), 12 Charges (-1/4), Range Based
	On STR (-1/4)

3u	05)  [i]"Screecher" (High-Frequency Whistle):[/i] EB 3d6, Area Of Effect
	(4" Radius; +1), AVLD (Hearing Flash Defense; +1 1/2); No
	Range (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Draws END from END Reserve

3u	06)  [i]Electrified Palm Plates:[/i] EB 5d6, NND (Non-conductive covering
	or armor; +1); OIF (-1/2), Draws END from END Reserve

1u	07)  [i]Tightened Seals and Silicone Gaskets:[/i] LS  (Safe in High
	Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe
	in  Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained
	Breathing), 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (+0);
	OIF (-1/2)

3u	08)  [i]Piledriver Fists:[/i] Tunneling 5" through 10 DEF material, Power
	Can Draw END from Character or END Reserve (+1/4); OIF (-1/2)

1u	09)  [i]Solid-Fuel RATO Units:[/i] Leaping 20"; 1 Charge (-2), Upward
	Movement Only (-1), Instant (-1/2), OIF Solid-Fuel
	Rockets (-1/2), no Noncombat movement (-1/4)

1u	10)  [i]External Fuel Tank:[/i] +50 END for END Reserve; OAF External
	Tank (-1), Only Recovers when Refueling; this END used first
	 from END Reserve (-1/2)

 

This costs a total of 45 points. You have a lot of mission-specific equipment available, but you can only swap out the parts or weapons or what-have-you in your base/shop, or if you've got access to the proper tools & supplies. As you get experience, it's relatively cheap to add new slots to the multipower, so you don't have to worry about "D'oh! That was so obvious; how could I forget! Now it'll take me forever to save up enough xp to get [power or item]!" -- because you can use 1 or 2 xp and add it as a slot to the multipower (assuming, of course, it could be done with 52 active points or less ).

 

Before each mission/adventure, just select the stuff you think you'll need from the multipower (within the limits of available points, of course) and attach it to the suit or carry it, whatever is appropriate. Why not carry all of it? Well, for game mechanics reasons we know that's because there's only so many points to go around; for game fluff or flavor reasons -- well, obviously there's only so many hardpoints on the armor for mounting additional gear, or only so much extra weight the servos can carry, of course!

 

Is that something that might work for you?

[Kirby]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Not in my campaigns they don't. They get one 8- Hunted at most' date=' and maybe a Watched. 30 points, at the outside.[/quote']While it's personal taste of the GM, I generally don't mind higher appearing Hunteds for PC's. Many players tend to write fanciful detailed backgrounds showing that their character has been around for a while, but is now [the game] limelighted. With some of my own more recent characters, I've even put in encounters with their Hunteds (usually ending in draws) because then there's the connection and reason for hunting.

 

Anything more and they become a pain to GM.

There also come times when I run out of ideas on "what to do next" and so I just roll everyone's Hunted. If the roll "succeeds" then the Hunted makes an appearance. And once I'm comfortable with the campaign and everyone's had some exposure, I roll for Hunteds that may sometimes pop up during other adventures.

 

"There was this one time in band camp" where I was running a San Fran game and everyone took VIPER as a Hunted (six players) and all the rolls said VIPER was showing. So, I decided to have the entire nest attack. Though the reasoning behind it was that the nest leader, the Darklord, wanted to rid San Fran of the Protectors. "It just so happened" that the PCs had plans to go to the Protectors to talk and smooth a misunderstanding out (also two PCs were niece/uncle and related to the Huntsman, during this meeting it was discovered by the three characters, which was role-played well). When the half-vampire-like PC aggrivated Helios and fists were about to fly, VIPER attacked.

 

Of course, YMMV.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

A 350-point super is generally considered to be early in his/her career' date=' but not a total novice - hence the 50 points worth of Hunteds most 350-point characters start out with. In my current campaign, the PCs are complete novices who just got their powers; as a result, they started out as 250-point heroes. My XP awards are somewhat inflated for the early sessions, so they will quickly work their way up to 350-points as they learn how to use their powers.[/quote']

 

We generally use mystery Hunteds so the GM can select Hunteds that make sense for the character in light of his game, whether the player or PC knows about them or not. This also opens up the prospect of the novice character picking up a Hunted or two in-game, when there's no logical Hunted from his background. We do tend to stick to 8- Hunteds.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

We generally use mystery Hunteds so the GM can select Hunteds that make sense for the character in light of his game' date=' whether the player or PC knows about them or not. This also opens up the prospect of the novice character picking up a Hunted or two in-game, when there's no logical Hunted from his background. We do tend to stick to 8- Hunteds.[/quote']

Yeah, I've used Mystery Hunteds too. As for the appearance frequencies, I guess I've never taken them literally. An 11- Hunted will show up regularly, but not necessarily 62.5% of the time. I don't think I've ever once rolled randomly to see if someone's Hunted shows up; I just write scenarios around them as appropriate. YMMV, of course.

 

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is just that there's nothing magical about the number 350. It's odd that so many people are willing/eager to change anything and/or everything about the rules to better fit their game, but the 350-point "guideline" gets treated as sacrosanct. If you want to play a lower point level, talk to your GM and go for it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Yeah' date=' I've used Mystery Hunteds too. As for the appearance frequencies, I guess I've never taken them literally. An 11- Hunted will show up regularly, but not necessarily 62.5% of the time. I don't think I've ever once rolled randomly to see if someone's Hunted shows up; I just write scenarios around them as appropriate. YMMV, of course. [/quote']

 

The roll can also mean they're up to something. While you're in Andromeda fighting off the Galaxoid Invasion, maybe your Hunted has stolen some prototype weaponry from a research lab. Now a perfect structure would be to have half a dozen stages in that Hunted building up to his master plan. One roll = one stage, with whatever news that generates. Roll 7 - he's ready, so he puts his plan into action. Or maybe the heroes deduce what he's up to at Step 4 and set a trap for him.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

This is something that novices to HERO sometimes misperceive: rolling a Hunted doesn't necessarily mean that the Hunter has to show up where the character currently is; or if the Hunter does show up, he doesn't necessarily have to fight or even directly interact with the character. There are a range of possibilities for using the Hunted Disad beyond simple confrontations.

[Kirby]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

This is something that novices to HERO sometimes misperceive: rolling a Hunted doesn't necessarily mean that the Hunter has to show up where the character currently is; or if the Hunter does show up' date=' he doesn't necessarily have to fight or even directly interact with the character. There are a range of possibilities for using the Hunted Disad beyond simple confrontations.[/quote']

Quite true. They can work well in "Elsewhere" panels, if you do them in your game.

[assault]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

There are a range of possibilities for using the Hunted Disad beyond simple confrontations.

 

Of course this is true, but it can still be a pain in the backside thinking of yet another such possibility.

 

That's why I prefer to limit their frequency at the beginning.

 

Besides, Doctor Doom doesn't show up in virtually every issue of Fantastic Four, even off-stage.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

Of course this is true, but it can still be a pain in the backside thinking of yet another such possibility.

 

That's why I prefer to limit their frequency at the beginning.

 

Besides, Doctor Doom doesn't show up in virtually every issue of Fantastic Four, even off-stage.

 

That's because he's 8- and hella tough. I'd imagine that his rolls are going off about 20 times for him to assemble some seemingly unstoppable evil plot in the background, with small chances for the Four to catch on if they weren't busy with other things, eventually culminating in Sue getting hurled into another dimension and everybody else getting stranded on a rogue asteroid, tied to a hydrogen bomb. The idea is that maybe there's an 11- chance of that Reed will notice that some rare component he needed has already been bought out, or for Ben to hear something about a missing warhead during one of his trenchcoat strolls. Eventually, they either put two and two together and stop Dr. Doom, or they end up strapped to an H-bomb in 6 months.

 

Something like that, anyway.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

That's because he's 8- and hella tough. I'd imagine that his rolls are going off about 20 times for him to assemble some seemingly unstoppable evil plot in the background, with small chances for the Four to catch on if they weren't busy with other things, eventually culminating in Sue getting hurled into another dimension and everybody else getting stranded on a rogue asteroid, tied to a hydrogen bomb. The idea is that maybe there's an 11- chance of that Reed will notice that some rare component he needed has already been bought out, or for Ben to hear something about a missing warhead during one of his trenchcoat strolls. Eventually, they either put two and two together and stop Dr. Doom, or they end up strapped to an H-bomb in 6 months.

 

Something like that, anyway.

 

I also believe that characters in the comics are allowed to exchange Hunteds of equivelent value. So Spider-man is no longer Hunted by the Green Goblin, but is now hunted by venom, at no change in Disad points. Otherwise, many characters whose rogues gallery has changed over the years have only 0 point Hunteds.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Difficulty reaching Super-Hero status

 

I also believe that characters in the comics are allowed to exchange Hunteds of equivelent value. So Spider-man is no longer Hunted by the Green Goblin' date=' but is now hunted by venom, at no change in Disad points. Otherwise, many characters whose rogues gallery has changed over the years have only 0 point Hunteds.[/quote']

Absolutely. What's the point of spending years working to destoy VILLAINY INC. if they're just going to come back next time the GM rolls 8-.