Defense against Entangle

[ArgusSK]

A couple of the heroes in my campaign have an Entangle attack that is causing a lot of headaches. Besides not getting hit or hiding behind a Force Wall, is there any defense out there that you have used against Entangle attacks? (For the curious, one of the special effects is a cable gun, one is an ice attack, and another is a focused paralysis beam.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Easiest solution: Play a brick. High casual STR is your friend.

 

More expensive or impractical solutions include Damage Shields or Desolidification.

[gojira]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

I guess Dive for Cover falls under the Not Getting Hit catagory, but I think it's worth pointing out because anyone can do it.

 

Also, don't forget that a teammate can also get you out of an entangle quickly, if the entangle is defined that way (it is by default, iirc).

 

So defense against Entangle is STR, lots of DCV and/or aborting to a high DCV maneuver, Desolid, or a helpful friend. Once word geta around (it should, eventually), NPCs should be prepared at least somewhat for the PCs best powers.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Pretty much any attack power, unless it's restrainable in some fashion, can be used by the victim to attack the Entangle.

 

Actually, mentalists can be fun when Entangled, assuming they can still see their opponents. It's just bonus defense at that point. A mentalist with 360 degree vision would be even better.

 

Assuming the entangle has DC's typical to the campaign, it generally averages a one phase issue for the target. I can keep entangling you, and you can keep breaking free, but neither of us is accomplishing much besides a delay.

[Maccabe]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Entangle Variable Special Effects Personal Immunity (just match the kind of Entangle used against you)

Suppress: Entangle- Only when SELF is target of Entangle (when he tries to Entangle you his "power" fizzles, but he can attack your teammates freely !)

 

Both are obscenely powerful:ugly:

[CBikle]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

That's odd, because we've had the exact opposite effect in our game.

 

In 5ER, entangles seem to have become a lot easier to get out of (high str, contortionist skill, desolidification, t-port, blasting out of it, etc).

 

Really, the only people who seem to be bothered by it are some martial-artists and anyone who relies on accessable foci.

[JamesG]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Really, the only people who seem to be bothered by it are some martial-artists and anyone who relies on accessable foci.

 

And even then, as long as they have an energy blaster on the team who can help out, the Entangle isn't much of a hinderance. It's so ridiculously easy to target an Entangle w/o risking damage to the person entangled, that in a team on team battle the average Entangle isn't going to be very effective.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

as long as they have an energy blaster on the team who can help out' date=' [/quote']

 

Slight edit ... an energy blaster on the team who WILL help out. I've seen more than my fair share of people who kind of ignore the concept of teamwork (or tactics) and just keep blasting away ...

 

It also doesn't matter much if the opponents are engaging in some good tactics of their own and demolish the Entangled character before anybody has a chance to spring their teammate (or he can spring himself) ...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Extra STR only vs Entangle is one means, obviously

 

A Triggered Dispel vs Entangles is another.

 

A Drain vs DEF Damage Sheild is good for flavor, but not cost effective due to the high cost of DS.

 

Things like that. There are many ways to do it if a character is willing to pay points.

 

 

If you want a universal standard way for all characters to resist / avoid entangles you could just add a watered down Martial Escape as a standard manuever, but make it Abortable....

 

4 Martial Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR vs. Grabs

 

so:

 

0 Untrammel: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, -1 DCV, +10 STR vs. Entangles, Abort

 

 

That basically reduces the effectiveness of Entangles by a modest chunk.

[ideasmith]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

A couple of the heroes in my campaign have an Entangle attack that is causing a lot of headaches. Besides not getting hit or hiding behind a Force Wall, is there any defense out there that you have used against Entangle attacks? (For the curious, one of the special effects is a cable gun, one is an ice attack, and another is a focused paralysis beam.)

 

Teleport.

[Old Man]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Desolid.

 

Missile Deflection.

 

Mind Control.

 

Higher SPD.

[Frenchman]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Also shape-shifters. Anyone who can shrink, grow, or stretch will (depending on the sFX of their power) have no problem getting out of an entangle

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Slight edit ... an energy blaster on the team who WILL help out. I've seen more than my fair share of people who kind of ignore the concept of teamwork (or tactics) and just keep blasting away ...

 

It also doesn't matter much if the opponents are engaging in some good tactics of their own and demolish the Entangled character before anybody has a chance to spring their teammate (or he can spring himself) ...

I thought the teamwork tactic was to pick up the entangled comrade and use them to bludgeon the opposition until the entangle breaks?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

I thought the teamwork tactic was to pick up the entangled comrade and use them to bludgeon the opposition until the entangle breaks?

Well, I guess that's better than using him/her as a shield...sort of.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

A couple of the heroes in my campaign have an Entangle attack that is causing a lot of headaches. Besides not getting hit or hiding behind a Force Wall, is there any defense out there that you have used against Entangle attacks? (For the curious, one of the special effects is a cable gun, one is an ice attack, and another is a focused paralysis beam.)

 

Other than being Desolid, there really isn't any "defense" against being Entangled. There's a really high STR, which might ignore an Entangle using Casual STR (you get to automatically roll half your STR against the Entangle immediately, and if you completely destroy it, it's like it never affected you).

 

There are TONS of way out of one though. And Entangle only prevents the use of "most" accessibly Foci and Restrainable Powers. If the Entangled character has an Attack Power (including STR, but not Martial Arts or a HA) that isn't through an accissible Focus or Restrainable, they can attack the Entangle on their Phase and automatically hit without making an Attack Roll. Also, any ally can attack the Entangle without hurting the person inside. To attack the Entangle, they take a -2 to their OCV, but an Entangled character is DCV 0, so unless they are doing it at great range it almost guarenteed to hit and not hurt the character. There's also Contortionist, Stretching, Shape Shift, Teleport and any number of creative uses of various Powers that might apply depending on the SFX of those Powers and the Entangle.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Dispel might work.

Wire Cutters for the cable gun.

Microheater built into costumes for the ice guy.

Nervous System Jumpstarter (like defilibrators) for the paralyzer beam.

[Ndreare]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Well I do not know if you would consider it a defense but…

Here is a 30 point power that will make it nearly improbable to hold the character. As soon as the entangle hit 0 Body it is destroyed. The benefit is that even if the Free Action power does not destroy the Entangle it will weaken it enough for the character to break out with casual power use and still be able to attack.

 

Free Action: Drain BODY 3d6, Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (105 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs. Entangles; -2), Always On (-1/2)

 

 

DO NOT LET THE PLAYERS KNOW HOW THE MARTIALARTIST IS GETTING OUT. As soon as you do it will be the start of an arms race. Also remember turn about is fare play. Create some villains with Entangle.

 

As a side note I would not give a power like this to every villain as the character did pay points for a power they think is cool and it may be considered a social no no to emasculate their favorite power. (After all would it be much different than having NPC Tanks that are always stronger than the PC tank.)

[Ndreare]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

As a side note you may be able to do it with a Suppress Body for much less points but it might be considered quirky. The following construct.

 

Improved Free Action: Suppress Body 6d6, Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs. Entangles; -2), Always On (-1/2)

[ideasmith]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Free Action: Drain BODY 3d6, Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (105 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs. Entangles; -2), Always On (-1/2)

 

DO NOT LET THE PLAYERS KNOW HOW THE MARTIALARTIST IS GETTING OUT. As soon as you do it will be the start of an arms race. Also remember turn about is fare play. Create some villains with Entangle.

 

You need Invisible Power Effects on that power. Otherwise, by RAW, the power is visible to normal sight and hearing and the characters will know how the martial artist is getting out.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

1 pip RKA - Penetrating(+½), Continuous(+1), Damage Shield(+½), Autofire(20 shots; +2½), Reduced Endurance(Zero END; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), Only Vs Entangles(-1)

 

37 Active Points, 18 Real Points (presuming the -1 value is correct).

 

For no apparent reason, entangles (of a non-mental nature) just don't affect the target (while he's awake). Or stop affecting him extremely quickly.

[ideasmith]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

1 pip RKA - Penetrating(+½), Continuous(+1), Damage Shield(+½), Autofire(20 shots; +2½), Reduced Endurance(Zero END; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), Only Vs Entangles(-1)

 

37 Active Points, 18 Real Points (presuming the -1 value is correct).

 

For no apparent reason, entangles (of a non-mental nature) just don't affect the target (while he's awake). Or stop affecting him extremely quickly.

 

Entangles with Hardened also won't be affected.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Who the heck buys Hardened for their Entangle?

 

The 1 pip KA with Pen does seem a little abusive, though (especially with the AF, etc.).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Who the heck buys Hardened for their Entangle?

 

I would have said the same thing, but you beat me to it!

 

The 1 pip KA with Pen does seem a little abusive' date=' though (especially with the AF, etc.). [/quote']

 

I'm sorry! I'll never break the system again!

 

But wait, Steve Long says that it *does* work that way (the 1 pip KA + Pen). So... :eg:

 

Though I personally have argued that it shouldn't work that way. Its overly effective, and has no randomness to the effect of the power. If I'm in a game where it's allowed, I usually buy: Armor +1 PD/+1 ED - Hardened x24(+6).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Entangles with Hardened also won't be affected.

 

So raise it to x4 Penetrating, and the Active Cost rises only 8 points (45 AP), and the Real Cost goes up just 4 points (22 RP).

 

Who's going to quadruple hardend an entangle?

[Frenchman]

Re: Defense against Entangle

 

Sigh. Sadly, one of my players has discovered just how cheesey a 2d6, 3 DEF BOECV vs EGO entangle is. After using it for almost a whole sessions worth of combats to single-handedly neutralize his foes, I am planning to use his own medicine against him (in the form of a 2d6 entangle vs. Con - a poison), but dreading it - I'm not sure how he'll react, especially seeing as he'll have to roll double sixes to deal 1 body to it (8 Con, low body feeble old shaman). But enough whining, I actually have something I'd like to point out:

 

It seems ridiculous how overpoweringly effective an entangle can be, especially in heroic-level settings. A 4d6 entangle, slightly below the AP cap for spells (45), is basically a guaranteed show-stopper, especially against a single opponent. Even a low-dice entangle can be frighteningly effective, especially if combined with Takes No Damage From Attacks or vs EGO, Not STR. For 80 AP (not excessive in the Supers games I've played in), a supervillain could have a 4d6 vs. EGO entangle that takes no damage from attacks - enough to incapacitate the vast majority of his foes. For 100 AP, it can have autofire, so he can take out a whole superteam with one action.

It seems that Entangle, even moreso than other powers, can quickly get out of hand, even while remaining well below the AP caps of a game.